Yeah maybe we can do a group buy on one of those 55gal drums, LOL.

Duly noted that a certain amount of dilution is desireable to make the additive more forgiving when measuring and adding small amounts. But then, since Rotella comes in gallon containers, one could just do a premix batch with the whole gallon and use that for oil changes.. probably better than trying to jigger in tiny amounts straight into the crankcase.  I'll be using the final product in my DR650 which probably doesn't have the exact same volume of oil. So maybe the mix table should be per gallon, or whatever size the Rotella jug is.

On further looking I see zinc is only 27.8% of the mass of ZDDP. When I figure up the ZDDP based on the manufacturer's claimed zinc content, plus the fact that Rotella has almost enough already.. yes, a little booster is going to go a long way.

A highly concentrated additive does have the advantage of not putting a significant amount of unknown "conveyance" in your oil.. but it is good to know that Redline uses a good synthetic for that.

I will recheck my math and make sure ZDDPlus has the most ZDDP per buck, more than Redline. It does not matter at all, what they recommend for a typical car oil change.. to take the ZDDP concentration from one unknown level to another unknown level. They can simply recommend less ZDDP as adequate, to make their product seem more attractive price-wise.  I will recheck the prices and levels, as well as make sure ZDDPPlus has no friction modifiers.

Since there are so few good candidates popping up, I think I'll do a table for both Redline and ZDDPPlus.  That is, unless something better springs up.

Edit: Also.. forgot to mention that the ZDDPlus vendors offer 4 and 6-packs of their 4-oz containers, so you get a small volume discount that could help defray the cost of shipping.

Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 08/11/12 at 15:09:08:

very nice to have,  just saved that link.

Looks like 1/4 bottle to each gallon of Rotella would put us right in the ball park for what oils used to be, at about 1890 ppm on the zinc side.  So each bottle of Redline would mix up 4 gallons of Rotella of either the dino or syn version with a 1890ppm zinc concentration.

R.F.

Corrected on Tech page & posts -- you are correct, a quart is 32 ounces.

phewwww ..... it     (sound a brain fart makes, exiting out through your ear)

Boosting a quarter bottle of Redline into a gallon jug of T-6 results in VERY AMPLE amounts of ZDDP, actually up in the "make Web Cam happy during hot cam break in" range.

Boosting just two ounces into a gallon jug of T-6 would get me up into the very comfy 1,545 ppm range

So if you'd buy a '13 bike, are you gonna have rollers in any bike and brand? And if not, what oil are you gonna run? Are you gonna have to decide whether to kill your cat or your motor?

 
I looked at the ZDDPlus website and saw their competitive claims table too.   It simply says that ZDDPlus product is the most concentrated of the bunch listed (but we already knew that).  I also saw the outside lab analysis which listed zinc and phosphorus as the only ingredients, so I leave the moly issue out of it at the moment as that indicates there isn't any moly (or any sulphur) in ZDDPlus.  

Base oil is still a question, I would suggest that the size of the bottle indicates it is bottled straight out of the 55 gallon additive maker's drum and has some, but very little, suspension oil to it at all.  

An ounce or two is all the suspension oil you have, so the ZDDPlus solids will NOT be staying in suspension and IT WILL be gooped up around the bottom of the little bottle.

The response to the Guzzi guy was humorous -- yes, if you had JASO MA oil available at 1,350 ppm then use that "as is" was a reasonable enough response.   Issue is that the only JASO MA oil left is Rotella and quite frankly that used to be on the weak 1,200 ppm end of the JASO MA oil spectrum (a whopping ancient few weeks ago) back before MA-2 reformulations began.

Saying "follow your instructions from the bike maker" is weak and very vague because the the bike makers could have never guessed what oil makers were going to do with those obsolete, no minimum ZDDP ppm number required completely unenforced SF, SG and SH specifications.   Lucas is the best example of that, putting out SM car oil and calling it bike oil.  

I think with our Savage instructions they were referring to the "then commonplace" 1,400 ppm to 1,600 ppm SF and SG oils that have not existed now for a decade, and they were certainly not referring to the neutered 800-1,000 ppm stuff that is being put out in JASO MA/2 bike oil land in the last few weeks.

It is an issue that hasn't chased itself out yet.   But then any oil will get you out of a one year warranty period and they do like to sell new motorcycles -- the bike mgf. didn't screw up the oil -- it isn't our fault, go sue Lucas over your knocky engine claims.

Mixing the little ZDDPlus bottles into the gallon jugs of Rotella is probably going to make the mixing pretty durn easy, just remember to shake the gallon jug good before pouring out the second two quarts.

===============

We got Dave and two other new ones complaining about the knocking now.   Ticky's we got by the dozen.  

What is scary is that new current year Savages are bought new by women, screwed up oil-wise by stealerships and boyfriends and then sold off to us pre-damaged when she gets tired of it.  

To us, it is too late -- tappet/cam surface scarring has already begun.   Case depth on rockers and cams is measured in single digit thousandths, and the lobes on the cam are considered "service max wear" when they have lost only 118 of those thousandths.   Scrub through the case depth and 118 can come see you pretty quick.

Cavi Mike wrote on 08/11/12 at 19:34:25:

No, I was talking about ANY new bike out there. Do they all have rollers now, or why can they run oil with not enough additives?

Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 08/11/12 at 21:58:42:


Nice engine! I like it. So every brands motor is equipped now with that?