SuzukiSavage.com - Oil temps and usage comparison

verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Online Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28787 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Oil temps and usage comparison Reply #30 - 09/03/10 at 22:49:29 rightly so, but I suspect it's temperature related. so why use something that isn't as capable? And load up the engine with sludge? if i used rotella it wouldn't be in there for long.
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Re: Oil temps and usage comparison
Reply #31 - 09/04/10 at 05:26:14

And that is the real reason I like Rotella Synthetic T-6 ....

It allows me to have all the high temp synthetic benefits, long use intervals, no sludge build up problems ever (self cleaning), runs about 8-10 degrees lower running temperatures than some other oils, starts easy in the winter time and makes my tranny shift easier to boot.

And it costs half as much as the high price spread and I can get it at my local WalMart or Advance Auto store.

Fully JASO approved too.

..... so what's not to like?

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verslagen1

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Re: Oil temps and usage comparison
Reply #32 - 09/05/10 at 11:05:12

OK, so the cool days have come and gone...

What I did was delete any days that were over 90°
Now we can directly compare the Klotz with RotSyn.
And what we find is the same results, klotz runs hotter then RotSyn.
I think we all have to wonder what that means. Is it a good or bad thing.
There are a lot of places in the engine that run hotter than 250°.
Is klotz absorbing that heat better?

The head temp is confusing me a bit. I'm measuring the temp at the coolest part of the head to keep within the capabilities of my IR gage.

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« Last Edit: 11/28/10 at 07:46:38 by verslagen1 »

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justin_o_guy2

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Re: Oil temps and usage comparison
Reply #33 - 09/05/10 at 11:19:30

Is klotz absorbing that heat better?

Interesting question right there.. I spose if I was running a lab on it & wanted to see if one oil had the ability to take heat on quicker than another, Id have to expose them both to the same heat for the same time & see if one got hotter quicker.
IF one does get hotter quicker, could we assume it would be able to cool more quickly?
IF they have the same heat grabbin qualities, would the temp differences inside the engine lead me to believe one was allowing more friction than the other?

Wouldnt a dyno test show that?

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verslagen1

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Re: Oil temps and usage comparison
Reply #34 - 09/05/10 at 11:30:33

Quote:

IF one does get hotter quicker, could we assume it would be able to cool more quickly?

That's what I would think, and the test could be run on stove top when the wife ain't looking. time to temp in a pan under full heat. then time to cool afterward. looks like i'm saving the old klotz and looking for a trash pan.

Quote:

IF they have the same heat grabbin qualities, would the temp differences inside the engine lead me to believe one was allowing more friction than the other?

I don't think so, unless the oil was reaching a temp that viscosity broke down.

Quote:

Wouldnt a dyno test show that?

Running an engine to oil breakdown would be insane.

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justin_o_guy2

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Re: Oil temps and usage comparison
Reply #35 - 09/05/10 at 12:12:33

IF they have the same heat grabbin qualities, would the temp differences inside the engine lead me to believe one was allowing more friction than the other?

Wouldnt a dyno test show that?
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IF the one that gets hotter IS hotter because of more internal friction, Then wouldnt it follow that the HP would be less with that oil?

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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Online Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28787 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Oil temps and usage comparison Reply #36 - 09/05/10 at 13:02:47 justin_o_guy2 wrote on 09/05/10 at 12:12:33: IF the one that gets hotter IS hotter because of more internal friction, Then wouldnt it follow that the HP would be less with that oil? My dino says they are the same.
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Lupo

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Re: Oil temps and usage comparison
Reply #37 - 09/05/10 at 21:39:54

Most motor oils have friction reducers but I know the Rotella diesel doesn't. I use that in my wet clutch bikes. I don't know about the synthetic stuff so I can't say but (oil threads are dangerious) motorcycle wet clutches shouldn't use oils with friction reducers because the clutch friction plates slip which could cause excessive heat. In my Guzzi's I run Mobil 1 because they have dry clutches like a car.

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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Online Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28787 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Oil temps and usage comparison Reply #38 - 09/05/10 at 22:00:07 Rotella both dino and syn both have the jaso ma rating, good for wet clutches.
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Lupo Senior Member Offline Posts: 356	Re: Oil temps and usage comparison Reply #39 - 09/05/10 at 22:03:13 That is good to know, thanks. Now if you can't get enough oil threads, have you seen this? http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/
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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Online Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28787 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Oil temps and usage comparison Reply #40 - 09/05/10 at 22:34:08 yep bob is well known here.
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Lupo Senior Member Offline Posts: 356	Re: Oil temps and usage comparison Reply #41 - 09/05/10 at 23:51:33 I'm humbled in sorrow. : )
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Re: Oil temps and usage comparison
Reply #42 - 09/06/10 at 05:02:25

Lupo, don't be sorry any at all -- Bob and company was news to a lot of folks back in the early oil war days back when Rotella wasn't JASO approved right on the jug.

Back then there were motorcycle oil camps and diesel oil camps and we were a lot more ignorant of how oil needed to work in our particular semi-antique motorsickle.

Bob and the boys certainly helped educate us, as the Savage engine is relatively primitive, uses flat tappets (tough to find these days on anything) and has a slightly overstressed cam chain drive that wears quicker than one would like.

We got to the resolution point on these issues, then began grinding on our high mileage issue of oil consumption -- there was hope that one particularly expensive synthetic might result in less oil loss. No such luck, and it didn't even do as good as the low cost spread for temperature control.

Plus, let's be honest -- we oil war now over the least excuse because it is something to do while saving coins for the next mod and waiting for the next group mountain run.

-------------------------------------------

If you follow Bobistheoilguy, is there a decent replacement for ZDDP that has been found yet?

This is still a key need for us that really only has a stopgap solution identified so far.

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« Last Edit: 09/06/10 at 09:19:02 by Oldfeller--FSO »

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Lupo Senior Member Offline Posts: 356	Re: Oil temps and usage comparison Reply #43 - 09/06/10 at 08:47:29 The articulation of your wisdom is refreshing. I feel better now, think I'll go for a ride. Happy Labor Day all.
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bill67

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Re: Oil temps and usage comparison
Reply #44 - 09/06/10 at 09:59:45

verslagen1 wrote on 08/29/10 at 14:38:11:

Last summer I became very concerned with the amount of oil I was pouring into my bike. By the end of summer, I'm pouring in a qt. a week. No need to change oil at these rates. I tried Mobil1 vtwin 20w50 with no change. Then winter appeared and the oil usage stopped. I'd have to equate this boil off with the flash point of the oil.

So this year I'm logging my oil use and temps with some highly touted oils.

My daily commute consists of a 25 mile run on the superslab.
Just enough time on the street to warm it up before I hit full speed.
Typically 50 to 75% at 65-70 mph. The rest at 30 to 45 mph.
I keep the oil filled up to the bottom line in the oil window as I get up to the top line it tends to blow out the breather.

Data from the 1st run of Rotella Synthetic T6
Started with a fresh oil change and a new filter.
http://verslagen.savageriders.com/Oil War/RotSynT6-1.jpg
klotz MX-4 15w50 with a new filter.
http://verslagen.savageriders.com/Oil War/Klotz-1.jpg
The yellow bar shows the average for the data collected.
The data from the previous RotSyn run is repeated below
And the next line is RotSyn subtracted from Klotz.
Interesting thing to note is that the head temp is 9° hotter.
This could be vary condemning, if the Klotz isn't taking the heat out of the head, it can't be good for it.

Next week promises to be cooler, so we'll see the impact of cooler ambient on Klotz.

Vers keeps the oil to the bottom line because it blows out the breather if he fills it higher

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