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One reason the rich matter (Read 711 times)
bill67
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Re: One reason the rich matter
Reply #15 - 08/09/10 at 09:56:40
 
My last car I bought last year is a Kia,I got smart  like GM they can get car made cheaper in Mexico,I bought a car made in Korea and they have cheaper labor than Mexico,I will never buy another GM car or truck,In my life time I bought about 30.
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Re: One reason the rich matter
Reply #16 - 08/09/10 at 10:41:32
 
Wall street and corporate america aided and abetted by the government...............
Fraud, conspiracy and extortion; the driving force of american business.
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Re: One reason the rich matter
Reply #17 - 08/09/10 at 10:58:08
 
Jerry wrote: "You forget that things were going nicely until the subprime mortgage meltdown started the cascade of failures, or near failures, that almost brought down the global financial system."

The rich invested in risky financial instruments. That is what caused the bubble and the crash. I certainly did not put any of my money into overpriced real estate or overhyped derivatives.

Wealthy people chased money. They had the money to invest and could have invested it in American manufacturing industries or products, but they chose not to because they could not make the outrageously huge sums of money they wanted to make by investing in real American factories, by paying American wages to prospective American consumers.

The top 1% could have bet their money on American workers and consumers. They didn't. So, yes, the recession is the fault of the disparity between the haves and the have-nots in America and that is the fault of the rich and the Bush tax cuts as well as other aspects of our tax code.

We're in a Recession Because the Rich Are Raking in an Absurd Portion of the Wealth.

Consider this article:

<snip>

Wall Street's banditry was the proximate cause of the Great Recession, not its underlying cause. Even if the Street is better controlled in the future (and I have my doubts), the structural reason for the Great Recession still haunts America. That reason is America's surging inequality.

Consider: in 1928 the richest 1 percent of Americans received 23.9 percent of the nation's total income. After that, the share going to the richest 1 percent steadily declined. New Deal reforms, followed by World War II, the GI Bill and the Great Society expanded the circle of prosperity. By the late 1970s the top 1 percent raked in only 8 to 9 percent of America's total annual income. But after that, inequality began to widen again, and income reconcentrated at the top. By 2007 the richest 1 percent were back to where they were in 1928—with 23.5 percent of the total.

Each of America's two biggest economic crashes occurred in the year immediately following these twin peaks—in 1929 and 2008. This is no mere coincidence. When most of the gains from economic growth go to a small sliver of Americans at the top, the rest don't have enough purchasing power to buy what the economy is capable of producing. America's median wage, adjusted for inflation, has barely budged for decades. Between 2000 and 2007 it actually dropped. Under these circumstances the only way the middle class can boost its purchasing power is to borrow, as it did with gusto. As housing prices rose, Americans turned their homes into ATMs. But such borrowing has its limits. When the debt bubble finally burst, vast numbers of people couldn't pay their bills, and banks couldn't collect.

China, Germany and Japan have surely contributed to the problem by failing to buy as much from us as we buy from them. But to believe that our continuing economic crisis stems mainly from the trade imbalance—we buy too much and save too little, while they do the reverse—is to miss the biggest imbalance of all. The problem isn't that typical Americans have spent beyond their means. It's that their means haven't kept up with what the growing economy could and should have been able to provide them.

more . . . http://www.alternet.org/economy/147469/we\'re_in_a_rece...
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Jerry Eichenberger
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Re: One reason the rich matter
Reply #18 - 08/09/10 at 11:10:39
 
Lifter -

Who or what created those risky mortgage backed subprime investments?

Answer - The misguided attempt to spread home ownership beyond any limit of common sense and affordability - the Community Reinvestment Act - the brain child of the Dems of the Clinton era.

Don't blame investors - blame the silly politically motivated gov't programs that created those opportunites for investors to cash in.

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Jerry Eichenberger
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Re: One reason the rich matter
Reply #19 - 08/09/10 at 13:33:21
 
Jerry Eichenberger wrote on 08/09/10 at 06:19:27:
There's a good article on Yahoo this morning about why the rich folks matter.  As everyone knows, our economy is driven by consumer spending for things from cars, appliances, etc. down to ballpoint pens.

Those who earn the top 5% of the income in the U.S. account for 37% of all spending.  When the wealthy stop buying, especially discretionary items, the economy falters.  When things are good, and they are spending vast sums, that spending drives the economy forward.

Whether you like this fact doesn't matter - it's still a fact.  When you put purchasing power into the hands of those at the top, they spend and create demand that in turn creates jobs for those who produce what is bought.  When you have gov't policies, like high taxes, tight credit, and other forces that diminish spending, we all suffer.



who took the purchasing power from those at the top??????   there are still rich people out there right?  quit crying and deal like the rich keep telling the poor to do.  Tax cuts created a false economy that was unsustainable and while Bush was in office the republicans failed to cut spending in any way to make those tax cuts sustainable. Clinton had a $200 billion dollar surplus at the previous tax rates. now we won't reclaim any of that with the current spending going on in DC but keeping the tax cuts is kind of a mistake as well.  and the 5% control 37% statistic is kinda scary, means that those of us out of the 5% are less and less significant and it scares me to think that we will be disvalued and seen even more as second class citizens.
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Jerry Eichenberger
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Re: One reason the rich matter
Reply #20 - 08/09/10 at 13:53:03
 
On a related, but somewhat diffferent note, read the  yahoo article today about the "new normal" in shopping habits.

In a nutshell, people , especially the middle class, are cutting way back on consumer purchases.  Many of us have found that possessions, and the credit card debts that often go along with them, certainly aren't needed to be happy in life.

This struck home to me because I saw my own recent behavior.  I have to admit that I've only been in a WalMart about 3 times in my life until a couple of weeks ago.  I needed a couple of pairs of casual shorts for a short vacation trip.  My son-in-law is a committed WalMart shopper, so I thought I'd go in there and see.

Well, I got brand name Wrangler shorts for $13 each - in the past I'd probably have gone to Macy's and dropped $30+ each for Dockers.

A couple of days later, I needed a pair of moccasin type shoes which I wear around the house.  Instead of dropping $80 for Dockers or Rockports I went again to Walmart and paid $17 for their store brand.  Yeah, they aren't natural leather, but who cares when all they do is get worn to push the garbage can to the end of the driveway?

While there, I noticed they sell Wrangler jeans for $9 a pair - heck of a lot less than Levis at Macy's.  Next time I need a pair of jeans, guess where I'm going?

But the bad part of all of this is what we started out talking about this morning - our consumer spending driven economy is going to be a long time adjusting if this "new normal" continues long term.
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Jerry Eichenberger
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Re: One reason the rich matter
Reply #21 - 08/09/10 at 15:06:50
 
Next time I'm in trouble I'm going to get me a Chinese lawyer they charge $12.50 and hour.
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Re: One reason the rich matter
Reply #22 - 08/09/10 at 18:45:19
 
Wal-Mart. Cheap stuff for carful stewarts of their fiscal resources eh?

The problem is widespread and pervasive, the effect of an economy reliant on an ever-accelerating cycle of consumption and corporate profits to maintain itself. By removing restraints like union bargaining power, higher tax rates on corporate profits, and regulations, we’ve let this cycle spiral out of control to where the health of the economy depends on constantly pushing labor costs downwards, resulting in far too many people who can’t afford to shop anywhere but at Wal-Mart.

The desire to succeed, to accrue wealth and acquire stuff, is normal and helps sustain human economies and societies. It’s a very powerful engine, but like anything with vast power, when it is out of control it can do terrible damage. Americans rely on stuff to an unhealthy degree, and our desire to make stuff, lots of stuff, available to everybody, has made us vulnerable to a form of consumer exploitation that is harming our country’s security, our resilience, and the very infrastructure that supports us. In valuing cheap consumer goods so highly, we have enabled a small minority of our fellow-citizens to own and control a huge percentage of our national wealth. And they, not unnaturally, use that wealth mainly for the personal benefit of themselves and their families.

And so we’ve started a cycle where those who control all that wealth and power use it to perpetuate the system that benefits them. They use the fantasy of ‘anyone can get rich, even you, and when you get rich you don’t want to be forced to use any of it to pay taxes or support the government, do you?’ And the soothing anodyne of cheap consumer goods to maintains a minimum comfort level even as they drain real wealth— economic security— from the rest of society. Devaluing and disempowering a government that was formed to protect everyone’s ability to benefit from the economy, they divert the resources that should be maintaining our infrastructure into military contracts and sweetheart deals that increase their profits.

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Re: One reason the rich matter
Reply #23 - 08/09/10 at 19:25:44
 
When 20 of the richest in the world admit they have too big a slice of the pie, and agree to donate a portion of their wealth..that speaks loudly to me..the rich got richer and now have, can you bleieve it, more than enough.  While this is generous, we should note that they still retain the power that the money provides..they decide what is good or needed, not a government or a business.  
Again, not chastising their generousity, just pointing something out.  As the man I hate most, H, Kissinger noted, power is the ultimate.Grin Grin
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Re: One reason the rich matter
Reply #24 - 08/09/10 at 20:11:06
 
America has some of the stupidest rich people ever. They are hell-bent on returning our country to the gilded age. They want low wages, high unemployment, and low taxes. The middle class will shrink and the truly poor will expand.

They have accomplished their goals by three decades of attacking government and Washington, all while using government and Washington to not only guarantee their privilege but to add to it steadily with a rigged tax system. They want all of us trembling in fear of losing crappy jobs, jobs they dole out if you are quiet and meek. They want to bask in the huge difference between their lives and ours. They love it that half the poor and middle class actually serve as foot soldiers for their war on the “lower” classes. Those foot soldiers are anyone who ever voted republican or settled for Democrats who voted like republicans.

But these power elite are truly short-sighted and stupid. The world they wish to create cannot last. Had they been satisfied with only limitless wealth and privilege and allowed the middle class to continue, they could have prolonged their position at the top for generations. Their greedy grab for everything without limits on suffering for the other 98% will result in their destruction. They know nothing of history, ancient or recent. From the French Revolution to the Watts riots, we know what is coming.
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Jerry Eichenberger
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Re: One reason the rich matter
Reply #25 - 08/10/10 at 05:15:11
 
Lifter -

While, as you know, I respect you as a person, sometimes your sweeping statements about a class of folks leaves me in wonderment.

Wealthy people have done more, over especially the last 200 years, to foster the improvement of society that you must realize.

Andrew Carnegie funded an entire nationwide public library system, even paying for the buildings as well as the books in them, so everyone could have access to the benefits of reading all sortsof literary, scientific and philosophical works.

Henry Ford continually LOWERED the price of early cars to enable the workers in his factories to be able to afford to buy them and enjoy the benefits of auto ownership.

In today's age, Bill Gates has gone about a massive give away program for his billions of dollars of wealth, already forewarning his children not to expect to inherit his wealth, but to earn their own way as he did.

Warren Buffet has contributed billions to the effort in partnership with Gates.

Here in Columbus, Ohio, Les Wexner, founder of the Limited Stores, (Limited, Bath and Body, among other stores) which he began with $5,000 borrowed from his uncle, established and personally funds The Wexner Center for the Performing Arts.

Examples of this philanthropy could go on for pages.

There are good, and bad, people of every ilk, and financial station in life.  To make sweeping allegations as you did, does, in fact, subtract from any impact those arguments may otherwise have.

Proponents of class warfare never accomplish anything other than angst.
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Re: One reason the rich matter
Reply #26 - 08/10/10 at 05:26:42
 
When Warren Buffet dies what do you think my share of his wealth will be?
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Re: One reason the rich matter
Reply #27 - 08/10/10 at 06:33:38
 
well Bill, i would hope your share would be zero. if you think you are entitled to any of his money, you shoudl be ashamed of yourself. Even if you take the cowardly way out and ask Uncle Sam to be your collection agent.
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Re: One reason the rich matter
Reply #28 - 08/10/10 at 06:40:29
 
Whos getting the money hes giving a way.
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Re: One reason the rich matter
Reply #29 - 08/11/10 at 00:21:02
 
Jerry and Starlifter, What in your oppinion is middle class ?
try and give me an income bracket.
It reminds me of a questionare when a hundred people were asked,
"Please give us your opinion on how you think of yourself in general"
check one,  Average
                above average.
                below average.
100 answered  Average.
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