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cam chain tensioner mod works (Read 1017 times)
borne2fly
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Re: cam chain tensioner mod works
Reply #90 - 06/08/07 at 17:31:12
 
Slavy ....... when you welded the extension onto the tab, did you lose any of the temper in the plunger? I welded on an extension and it got the plunger very hot, and now it looks like the original hardness is gone. However, I'm not sure it ever really needed to be tempered?
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verslagen1
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Re: cam chain tensioner mod works
Reply #91 - 06/08/07 at 19:12:31
 
You'll change your mind once all the teeth wear off from the pawl banging away at them.
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Re: cam chain tensioner mod works
Reply #92 - 06/08/07 at 19:37:07
 
You know I've been sitting, drinking and thinking about this and had a real strange thought, how about taking a stretched chain and removing a link, not real pratical but in theory would it work? Undecided
  I still like the tuning fork idea for strength but the aluminum z bar would be a piece of cake to manufacture. All you would really need would be a file and a drill press. Anybody have an idea on how much stress would be applied to a z bar?. Can't think that it would be more than the tensioner spring pressure with a little chain slap added on.
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Re: cam chain tensioner mod works
Reply #93 - 06/08/07 at 19:43:24
 
I like the thought of finding a better grade of chain that will ride the same sprocket construction.  The though of changing out all the sprockets gives me gas.

Right now the chain is linkless, right?  Is a master link even possible with that construction of chain?

Chain comes cheapest in large spools direct from the vendor.  If we were to find a better grade of chain one of us could buy the spool and make up the cam chains for the group.  It'd be cheaper than a Suzuki or Kawa chain from a reseller, and it would be known better stuff (or we wouldn't bother to do it).

What is the mil-spec (or industrial name) that describes this size and type of cam chain?  Does anybody know?

Oldfeller
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verslagen1
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Re: cam chain tensioner mod works
Reply #94 - 06/08/07 at 19:49:00
 
Ed, just make 2, 1 for each side.  But I shudder at the thought.  For heavens sake use steel.  are you trying to save weight?   Grin
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borne2fly
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Re: cam chain tensioner mod works
Reply #95 - 06/08/07 at 21:35:42
 
verslagen1 wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:06:
You'll change your mind once all the teeth wear off from the pawl banging away at them.


Has this actually happened? I could understand if the parts were sliding past each other like improperly designed gears, but the pawl seems to rest squarely in the teeth, and I'm not sure how hard the chain pushes against the tensioner.
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verslagen1
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Re: cam chain tensioner mod works
Reply #96 - 06/08/07 at 23:08:27
 
I don't know.  No one completely annealed their plunger before.  But this is the only reason I can think of for the hardened plunger.  Heat it to red hot again and stick it in a bucket of oil and swirl it around.   Grin

I just cracked open the clutch cover and checked my CCC mod.  Plunger is out 5.6mm and everything is ok after 1k miles.   Grin
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borne2fly
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Re: cam chain tensioner mod works
Reply #97 - 06/08/07 at 23:21:19
 
Yep, I think I better do that (re-temper it).

Good news that your mod is working. If I can get my hands on a used clutch housing I want to cut some sort of access hatch so I don't need to pull the housing just to check this thing.
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borne2fly
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Re: cam chain tensioner mod works
Reply #98 - 06/09/07 at 00:19:27
 
As I'm fiddling with this tensioner assembly I noticed something ..... every time the plunger advances,  the pawl rocks and compresses the tiny spring that drives it. But the pawl never rocks enough to hit against the aluminum housing (near the tiny spring). until the plunger tries to come out. THEN the pawl uses up all it's available clearance and stops up against the housing (well, almost, it still clears by a few thousandths). A small piece of sheet metal jammed in this area would reduce this clearance and limit the pawl's movement so that the plunger would advance as usual, but it would not let the plunger fall out. I'm thinking of a small screw in the bottom of the housing that holds a piece of sheet metal that does just this. Hmmmmm.

Those of you who have bought a new tensioner have seen the plastic tab that comes wedged into this area to hold the plunger in place so the spring doesn't push it out. Same idea, sort of.

Next day ..... more thoughts in this ..... I could do it with a thin piece of piano wire. I'm guessing about .030" diameter.
Bend the wire so  that it runs around the outside of the housing, but grips it with a little bit of spring tension. The ends don't need to meet, but bend at least one end so that it sticks in the gap between the pawl and the housing (near the little spring that drives the pawl). This will stop the pawl so that the plunger can't come out, and the spring tension of the wire will hold it securely in place. It's almost too simple.
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borne2fly
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Re: cam chain tensioner mod works
Reply #99 - 06/09/07 at 18:28:54
 
Ok, I welded a tab onto the plunger and drilled a 2nd hole 15mm out from the original hole. This pushed the plunger all the way back in to the 1st or 2nd notch. Excellent. My only concern was that the welding process removed some of the hardness from the plunger, but a few passes with a file suggested that the area with the notches was still plenty hard so I didn't bother with re-hardening it. I'll yank it apart in a few thousand miles and give it a check.
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justin_o_guy
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Re: cam chain tensioner mod works
Reply #100 - 06/10/07 at 05:33:22
 
I stopped the plunger from coming out by running a piece O piano wire thru the housing to stop the pawl from swinging far enough to alow the plunger past it once it was out of teeth.

I really like Old Fellers "Z" bar idea. I have some aluminum bar stock laying around that sould do it. As long as the inside corners are radiused I dont see an issue.
Since I cant remember what I had for lunch yesterday, I cant say whether or not the "Z"bars would make it so the plunger cant come out without making the thing too tight on the chain when it's new. I would not build the Z bars till I have news guides & new chain. Then, I intend to do the Z bars( unless someone figures out a better way or proves they wont work. Which I really dont see happenin in either case) & have the chain Cryogenically treated. Also, soaking the chain in oil a while so it's never dry is a simple way to make sure it starts life without injury.

Thanks for the sketch Old Feller & I think thats an ellegant answer.
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Re: cam chain tensioner mod works
Reply #101 - 06/10/07 at 08:31:33
 
Hey, don't thank me, I didn't do the sketch -- thank Vtail.  All I did was keep the percolator cooking until the coffee got properly strong and good.

They have a practical possible kit-able solution and 10,000 more miles before I have to tear my bike apart to implement it.  Heck, they will have even tried it out before then and be up to generation II on the fix kit.

Hope they locate a better grade of chain before then, too.

Oldfeller
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Re: cam chain tensioner mod works
Reply #102 - 06/15/07 at 13:52:32
 
I don't recall where I saw it, but someone else suggested using a "latch swing bolt" or a "rod end bolt" for the modification.

It would appear you "cut" off the current "eye" of the tensioner near the base of the "plunger" itself, drill the end out then "tap" the hole with some new threads to receive the latch swing bolt.  That would also make it adjustable to fine tune the "length" of the plunger.

Anyone care to comment on this possibility ?

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verslagen1
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Re: cam chain tensioner mod works
Reply #103 - 06/15/07 at 14:43:59
 
Yeah, that was tbalam's mod.

the plunger is hard thru and thru, drilling thru it is a b'tch.  Taping it is imposible.  

I looked at adding the rod end on the housing instead.  Difficulties here are the mount centerline is offset from the plunger centerline.  Using a decent sized screw fixed to the mounting boss and threaded into the housing would have to be centered on the plunger for the adjustment screw to be long enough.  Use too big a screw and it'll interfere with the spring.  Using a small screw and it may snap off.

I'll aquire some material this weekend and flesh out my version of the vtail extention.   Grin
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vtail
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Re: cam chain tensioner mod works
Reply #104 - 06/15/07 at 15:29:08
 
Hey Verslagen, Go at it and show us pictures please. Picking up my new scoot tonight. By the time I need the mod you'll have a full production run going Smiley
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