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Bike won't start ... (Read 5 times)
Savage_Rob
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Re: Bike won't start ...
Reply #15 - 10/18/05 at 15:45:57
 
Maurizio,
Click on the image and it'll take you to the site.
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1998|MAC muffler|ceramic coated header|K&N air filter|Amal Mk2 carb|Odyssey battery|iridium plug|NC windshield|Dunlop 491s|Superbrace|EBC brake rotor|12.5" Progressive shocks|Kuryakyn ISO grips
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mpescatori
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Re: Bike won't start ...
Reply #16 - 10/19/05 at 06:30:28
 
Aha !                    Cheesy
Now I get it !   Wink

I'll have an order out shortly, it's incredible but I can't find these super slim tools over here, bikes have a box for things under the saddle... has anyone ever made a compartment for things on the Savage? (other than the barrel-style tool pouch under the front light)

Maurizio
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Maurizio Pescatori, Esq.
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Mikuni BST40, K&N filter, Stage2 cam, Verslagen tensioner, Sportster muff, 120 proof moonshine, Pirelli MT 66 tourers... and a chain conversion too !
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Savage_Rob
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Re: Bike won't start ...
Reply #17 - 10/19/05 at 06:37:21
 
mpescatori wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:10:
Aha !                    Cheesy
Now I get it !   Wink

I'll have an order out shortly, it's incredible but I can't find these super slim tools over here, bikes have a box for things under the saddle... has anyone ever made a compartment for things on the Savage? (other than the barrel-style tool pouch under the front light)

Maurizio



There should be a small tool pouch inside the right-hand battery box cover.  If it's there and complete, it should contain a sparkplug socket also.

When I replaced my battery with an Odyssey, it was shorter but wider such that I had to remove the tool pouch bracket and just use the chrome cover.  However, because of the reduced height, I was able to shape a small piece of aluminum to raise the battery and slide the tool pouch underneath it.  The only tools I carry from that stock set are the sparkplug and belt tension tools.  Otherwise, I have others in my ammo trunk.
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1998|MAC muffler|ceramic coated header|K&N air filter|Amal Mk2 carb|Odyssey battery|iridium plug|NC windshield|Dunlop 491s|Superbrace|EBC brake rotor|12.5" Progressive shocks|Kuryakyn ISO grips
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mpescatori
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Re: Bike won't start ...
Reply #18 - 10/19/05 at 15:28:38
 
Yes, I am aware of the small compartment to the right of the battery, and stay well assured that, 17 years and 6 owners on, the only tools left are two spare fuses... Tongue
That's why I bought myself a leather barrel-type toolbox, I like to pack !

Maurizio
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Maurizio Pescatori, Esq.
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Mikuni BST40, K&N filter, Stage2 cam, Verslagen tensioner, Sportster muff, 120 proof moonshine, Pirelli MT 66 tourers... and a chain conversion too !
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Savage_Rob
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Re: Bike won't start ...
Reply #19 - 10/19/05 at 16:47:02
 
mpescatori wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:10:
Yes, I am aware of the small compartment to the right of the battery, and stay well assured that, 17 years and 6 owners on, the only tools left are two spare fuses... Tongue
That's why I bought myself a leather barrel-type toolbox, I like to pack !

Maurizio

I was afraid of that but it couldn't hurt to try.  Anyway, the one from www.crc2onlinecatalog.com should do the trick.  For $5, I'm planning to get one the next time I order something else from them but I don't know when that might be.
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1998|MAC muffler|ceramic coated header|K&N air filter|Amal Mk2 carb|Odyssey battery|iridium plug|NC windshield|Dunlop 491s|Superbrace|EBC brake rotor|12.5" Progressive shocks|Kuryakyn ISO grips
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mpescatori
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Re: Bike won't start ...
Reply #20 - 11/15/05 at 08:51:48
 
OK guys, I need   [glow=red,2,300] A L L [/glow]   the help I can get.

Remember my previous posts re: the bike that won't start?
I have changed the spark plug,
I have changed a full tank with new clean gas
I have cleaned the air filter
I have fitted a fuel filter...

Bike started, chuggachuggachug, would not go beyond 1500rpm, lots of black smoke from the exhaust, and eventually she died  :'(

Allowed her to rest a bit, opened air filter box, without the air filter she restarted for a second, chuggachuggachug then POFFF and died again.

Battery flat.

I have asked around, and have been advised:
- check that the fuel bowl isn't full of muck [glow=red,2,300]HOW? [/glow]
- check the connections to the coil
- check the coil-to-spark plug connections
- check if the decompressor mechanism isn't jammed/dry/whatever and leaves the exhaust valve partially open (just a draft)  Shocked
The guy who gave me this last tip had a Honda Dominator he had stripped and disassembled to the bone, it took him months to realize it was the decompressor that only needed oil and a few wiggles.

Any help on how to pull down the fuel bowl?
I am on the brink of depression... :'( :'( :'(
I bought $500 worth of accessories and can't even start the bike  :'( :'( :'(

Maurizio

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Maurizio Pescatori, Esq.
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Mikuni BST40, K&N filter, Stage2 cam, Verslagen tensioner, Sportster muff, 120 proof moonshine, Pirelli MT 66 tourers... and a chain conversion too !
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mpescatori
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Re: Bike won't start ...
Reply #21 - 11/15/05 at 09:22:46
 
OK on another thread I've just discovered how to open and drain the fuel bowl (I won't put a smiley here because I still have to do it)

[glow=red,2,300]BUT [/glow]
I still need your past experience and opinions on the 'decompressor' issue.
Having read of one whose bike wouldn't start due to a burnt exhaust valve, I cringe...   :'(

Maurizio
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Maurizio Pescatori, Esq.
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Mikuni BST40, K&N filter, Stage2 cam, Verslagen tensioner, Sportster muff, 120 proof moonshine, Pirelli MT 66 tourers... and a chain conversion too !
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dangerdave
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Re: Bike won't start ...
Reply #22 - 11/16/05 at 10:14:11
 
Maurizio,
In response to your question, the decomp valve is accessed on the valve cover, behind the chrome cover on the left-hand side of the bike (the one that you remove to change the plug).  Toward the front of the bike atop the head cover, there will be a small actuator lever with a cable attached to it and a shaft running into the valve cover near the left-hand exhaust valve (it looks something like a throttle unit).  This is the decomp valve actuator assembly.  It is controlled by a solenoid that fires and pulls the cable when you press the starter button--just before the starter motor begins to turn over.  This actuation is the intial "click" you hear when you press the starter button.

Hence, a simple check of the system can be done by removing the chrome cover, turning the bike's ignition to "On" and lightly pressing the starter buttom.  You should hear the solenoid fire and see the cable pull the decomp lever up several millimeters.  If you hear the solenoid click, but the lever doesn't move, check to see if you can move it with your hand:  if not, lubricate the shaft with bearing grease; if so, check the free play on the cable.  As I remember, the cable needs 3 to 5 mm of free play to actuate correctly.  Primarily, what you want to insure is that the cable is not so tight (or that it's not binding such) that it cannot "bottom out" against valve cover.  Adjust the cable travel if necessary (there is a pair of locknuts on the cable housing just above the decomp lever for this purpose--it adjusts just like the lower end of your clutch cable).  Obviously, if the cable is not moving or you can't hear the solenoid operate, then the problem is on the electrical end.

With that said, what you describe seems more likely to be a problem of carburetion.  As others have suggested, I'd remove the carb, disassemble, and rebuild, removing any gunk that may have worked its way in.  At the very least, remove and clean the fuel bowl and check that the float is operating; also, I would clean the carb slide, clean the slide walls, and reinstall the slide with a very thin coat of 2-cycle engine oil.  If you continue to get a back flow of gas into the airbox, it sounds like a stuck slide or defective/improperly adjusted float may be to blame.
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Reelthing
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Re: Bike won't start ...
Reply #23 - 11/16/05 at 10:43:47
 
Sounds like the carb to me and/or the fuel petc0ck. you need to be careful here as bad as the engine was flooded running the engine at all without checking into the oil. if the airbox filled with gas it is also likely the cylinder filled with gas. If it did so this will leak past the rings as the bike sat and into the crankcase thus mixing with the oil and if this is the case your all sit to fry the engine. Check the oil level or better yet just drain it and refill the oil - cheap insurance.

Do you have gas in the vacuum line that runs from the righthand side (starboard) of the carb to the fuel petc0ck?

if the diaphram has busted in the petc0ck it will produce all the symptoms you describe as it will let the engine suck gas straight into the intake and worse yet it will let gas leak into the intake filling the airfilter box and the engine.

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mpescatori
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Re: Bike won't start ...
Reply #24 - 11/16/05 at 14:02:59
 
Reelthing wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:11:
Do you have gas in the vacuum line that runs from the righthand side (starboard) of the carb to the fuel petc0ck?

if the diaphram has busted in the petc0ck it will produce all the symptoms you describe as it will let the engine suck gas straight into the intake and worse yet it will let gas leak into the intake filling the airfilter box and the engine.



Thank you Reelthing and DangerDave, I will answer your questions.

No, when I pulled the tank away I do not recall seeing any fuel dribble down the vacuum line. To be honest, I'd change the petc0ck for a traditional style fuel valve, On/Off/Res, but I'd have to drill the fuel tank and tap the (thin) sheet metal. Frankly I doubt it would work.

I have drained the fuel bowl, but would rather not pull down the whole carb, I'm not comfortable with that. I have also generously lubricated the decompressor assembly with 'three in one' oil, it worked alright since the beginning but some extra oil can't do any harm.

I have also checked the coil and cleaned the low voltage leads, but the HT lead seems to be glued on (vulcanized?) so I can't pull it off and clean that as well.

Last but not least, battery not quite dead but quite low, so off she comes, appear ye olde battery charger, clip on the wires and... smoke. The battery charger short circuited. A Bosch battery charger that breaks down?

[glow=red,2,300] :'( Is my bike jinxed ?  :'( [/glow]

Maurizio
(I can't believe a whole month has passed since I UNsuccesfully tried to start her, and she STILL won't start!)
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Maurizio Pescatori, Esq.
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Mikuni BST40, K&N filter, Stage2 cam, Verslagen tensioner, Sportster muff, 120 proof moonshine, Pirelli MT 66 tourers... and a chain conversion too !
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mpescatori
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Re: Bike won't start ...
Reply #25 - 11/16/05 at 15:21:07
 
Reelthing wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:11:


if the diaphram has busted in the petc0ck it will produce all the symptoms you describe as it will let the engine suck gas straight into the intake and worse yet it will let gas leak into the intake filling the airfilter box and the engine.



OK let's assume that the petc0ck diaphragm has busted, I have no idea where to find a new one...
[glow=green,2,300]BUT [/glow]
what if I got rid of the vacuum line, sealed both ends, and ran the petc0ck on 'prime' to simulate ON, and twisted it on 'normal' to shut it off?
.
.
.
Maybe it wouldn't work, because the diaphragm is busted so fuel would seep through anyway, huh?

Maurizio
(it's way past midnight and I can't sleep)
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Maurizio Pescatori, Esq.
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Mikuni BST40, K&N filter, Stage2 cam, Verslagen tensioner, Sportster muff, 120 proof moonshine, Pirelli MT 66 tourers... and a chain conversion too !
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Reelthing
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Re: Bike won't start ...
Reply #26 - 11/16/05 at 19:01:52
 
if you want to consider it there is a post in the tech section on how to convert the petc0ck to a on/res/off
setup - I like the vacuum petc0ck myself - but you may not. -

Be sure and check out that oil!
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mpescatori
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Re: Bike won't start ...
Reply #27 - 11/17/05 at 00:05:19
 
If the coversion is the one I saw some time ago, it means I have to disassemble it and do all sorts of funny things to it... unfortunately although I do have a garage it has a dirt floor (never paved by the landlord) and even dropping a nut means I have to clean off all the grime... uck.
I will build a small table and work from that.
Still, I cannot believe so many things are going wrong after she drove quite reliably and very nicely for all those miles...
... or was that just plumb luck  ???

Maurizio
(I'm actually looking at a DR650 as a second 'winter' bike while I sort this one out... or else I sell it to the first bidder come next spring and convert the DR :'(

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Maurizio Pescatori, Esq.
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Mikuni BST40, K&N filter, Stage2 cam, Verslagen tensioner, Sportster muff, 120 proof moonshine, Pirelli MT 66 tourers... and a chain conversion too !
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mpescatori
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Re: Bike won't start ...
Reply #28 - 11/17/05 at 06:01:08
 
Reelthing wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:11:
Be sure and check out that oil!


Reelthing, one innocent question...

If the bike won't start, it stays cold...
...which means, I can only drain cold oil.

10W/40, hope it's fluid enough.
Considering the local temperature is now in the low teens (Centigrade, fifties Farenheit) how efficiently will the oil pour out?
How can I tell if it's OK (it's only done some 500 Km, 350 miles) or if I must change it? Like, droplets of gasoline in the oil? Smears?

Maurizio
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Maurizio Pescatori, Esq.
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Mikuni BST40, K&N filter, Stage2 cam, Verslagen tensioner, Sportster muff, 120 proof moonshine, Pirelli MT 66 tourers... and a chain conversion too !
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mpescatori
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Re: Bike won't start ...
Reply #29 - 11/17/05 at 06:05:55
 
Just read on the Tech Section about oil change, and cphilip says:
''The main thing I would add it that you SHOULD NOT use a viscosity thats too low because of the wet clutches. They will slip on you. Nothing less than 15W. Nothing labeled "energy saving". The cork and metal plate clutch with springs system was designed way back in the days when they used only 30W non detergent oils. And they do not like very slippery oils by design.  

So no matter what oil you chose, remember you are also lubricating your clutch and it works on a basic viscosity need around 30. So for instance 15W-40 is an acceptable compromise and works. But, for instance 5W-30 is not within that compromise window. And your clutch will slip and act up
''

Which means, 20-40 oil OK?

Maurizio
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Maurizio Pescatori, Esq.
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Mikuni BST40, K&N filter, Stage2 cam, Verslagen tensioner, Sportster muff, 120 proof moonshine, Pirelli MT 66 tourers... and a chain conversion too !
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