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Picking the best pistol caliber (Read 787 times)
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Re: Picking the best pistol caliber
Reply #60 - 06/07/23 at 10:25:19
 

2.5 pounds on the nose carrying 26 rounds of cast lead goodness  ----  a very good guesstimate MM.

Fully loaded, the gun doesn't buck much at all when shot.   By the time it shoots itself empty it is rocking up and back a good bit more .......
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Re: Picking the best pistol caliber
Reply #61 - 06/07/23 at 20:23:28
 
I've got a 42 oz 357  revolver that I don't like to shoot 357 ammo in because the recoil is just crazzy.   With the full power reloads ... its a hand cannon.   Its way to big to carry.  My son wants me to keep it for him and I've got a lot of 357 ammo loaded up , so I keep it just incase our country gets invaded or something similar

If I remember right ??? Your pistol is 45acp necked down to 40cal. ?

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Re: Picking the best pistol caliber
Reply #62 - 06/08/23 at 03:56:03
 

I have several different pistols and solid stainless steel revolvers in my gun safe.  They all weigh a good bit more since they are solid stainless steel.   The big Glock 40 Super you mention cannot be shot inside a house without taking out everyone's ear drums due to the muzzle brake.  As you remember, it was a heavy gun also.

I can't handle the grip weight of the most potent of these larger guns any longer.  I am old and feeble, or getting there.

The Glock 22 (my smaller Glock 40 caliber), even apart from using the long clear magazine, is about as much as I can handle while sitting in my powered wheel chair.  If I was in carry mode, it would have a stock black Glock barrel in place and look like what it is, a bone stock LEO issue service Glock 22 trade in gun.

MM, you have downsized yourself into low capacity Mouse Guns which is a mistake as those little things aren't going to get the job done when facing a 9mm wielding attacker.

Everyone is packing now-a-days, so you face off with the one who is going to shoot you first and a couple of his buddies that he is running with.

Good luck with a double barrel derringer.

The odds are against an old person to begin with, my first group attack move against me would be to push my wheel chair over.

Then I would kick the shite out of me in the head until I was all bloody and unconscious and then rob me at your leisure.

In wheel chair attacks knives are most commonly used on the cripple as wheel chair bound are not rated as being worthy of taking out your gun.


  Roll Eyes    hint ......  don't bring a knife to a gunfight  .......



Interesting point made by several 9mm "5 BEST 9mm pistols" reviews is that the Glock 19 AND ALL OF THE CURRENT COMPETITORS TO THAT GUN all only have a 15 round capacity in 9mm as their grips were shortened to maximize these guns conceal-ability.  

This is the 15 round count that is most commonly available across the board now, anyway.

Hey, this is the exact same round count as my ex-police Glock G22 40 cal S&W, so the most modern Glocks have just gone "round count equal" and have given away their magazine capacity advantage.

Next, note that 10 round capacity pistol magazines are likely making a comeback soon, mandated by somebody or other agency that actually lacks the authority to make up this sort of restriction.  As such this restriction if it comes about may be short lived just like the previous magazine restrictions were.


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« Last Edit: 06/08/23 at 19:12:02 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Picking the best pistol caliber
Reply #63 - 06/08/23 at 13:25:30
 
Whose making more holes, you or the carpenter bees ?  😏
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Re: Picking the best pistol caliber
Reply #64 - 06/09/23 at 11:58:55
 
I won’t tell you the caliber


I want it to be a Surprise !
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Re: Picking the best pistol caliber
Reply #65 - 06/11/23 at 11:42:15
 
Whose making more holes, you or the carpenter bees ?  

Hay Lance , I only shoot them in the air , sitting targets are way too easy !   Wink.

Some time I get lucky and hit them from the draw , but most of the time I aim ... but they don't give a feller much time for finding the sights !  

I do carry bigger slugs when the coats come out of the closets !   Smiley

https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?ei=UTF-8&p=ruger+lpc+2+for+self+defe
nce+vs#id=4&vid=fa4408bcbc704edf5dc4cbf131440a40&action=view

I got cases of these:  
https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?ei=UTF-8&p=22lr+self+defense+ammo#id
=14&vid=556c848e6628a277b9a09501595e7bb0&action=view

expermint on dead cow mussle , ribs , lungs .... don't watch right before dinner !  Roll Eyes  :

https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?ei=UTF-8&p=22lr+self+defense+ammo#id
=36&vid=ebdced674f6073c97fed6958ca8cd0a0&action=view

using the right ammo REALLY matters  Wink
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Re: Picking the best pistol caliber
Reply #66 - 06/17/23 at 06:14:58
 
                                 
Went this past weekend to visit with some family in the NC mountains at their daughter's HS graduation.  Good visit, had uncles aunts and several full families all there to watch the girl walk to get her diploma.

Notably, these folks are all 9mm aficionados and a lot of them had just upgraded their guns in the past year or so.   Knowledgeable folks, we had some good conversations about Glocks, S&W MPs and self defense.

9mm hardball was something the older men learned in the military and the kids had learned from their buddies and the internet.

Ammo currently riding in those guns is 9mm full metal jacket round nose hard ball similar to WWII loadings.   They believe this will penetrate deep enough to get in-capacitance in most frontal shootings, sometimes penetrating deeply enough to incapacitate a BG anyway.

They plan to empty their magazine any time they have to shoot their gun.  If the BG is still standing, he gets shot some more.


===================================


Black and brown bears live in their neighborhoods.   They see these bears in the neighborhood trash cans all the time.  

I asked if they would use their Glocks in case of a bear attack --- they said they would shoot the bear in the head once or twice then run like hell as the bear would hopefully hesitate to pursue them after getting shot.  

A closed car door or house door is their real answer to the bear question as they are not permitted to kill the bears with a rifle as nuisance critters.

---- Why use FMJ round nose WWII style 9mm loadings?  

ANSWER:  Bears need heavier harder slugs with more penetration as pissing the bruins off with expanding bullets isn't any sort of answer at all.


Me, I think they should be carrying some heavier cartridges if bears are an ongoing part of their reality.  
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Re: Picking the best pistol caliber
Reply #67 - 06/17/23 at 21:58:05
 
Dealing with a bear is not what that 9mm was made for , for-sure !  

But

We all know the saying :  The gun in your pocket is 100% better than the one you have in your gun safe !   Wink
.......................

I wonder if the .357/158gr./SWC is Black Bear material , I would think not if its from a 2" barrel.   But 4" or more might be a different story ?  Huh
.......................

I have a Guzzi buddy who has a cabin in north Ga.   Well , its in Bear country and he don't live in the cabin .   So Bob goes out to fix the little things once in a while.
Well  he was telling me ,  He was up on the roof looking for a leak when he spotted an approaching Black Bear.?"    So Bob says "I got down off the roof , went inside and watched through the window" - "The Bear looked around for some food for a while then left".
Then Bob , tells more.   Bob tells a Game Warden about the episode and where it happened at --- after the Game Warden gets through laughing for a while Game Warden tells Bob , " That's where we release all the "PROBLEM BEARS AT"".   Then the Game Warden tells Bob , he needs to get him a .454 or some kind of SW.500 revolver to carry with him when he's out and about up there.
Well , bob was telling me he didn't want to carry a "MONSTER" gun like that hanging off his hip.    I suggested he get a 4" .357 and some soft point Mag. loads for it.   If I had been thinking I should have suggested to sell him my old Ruger Black Hawk 6.5" .357 , but I didn't think of it till a day later.
What I did think of at the time was : "Well , that sure explains why you got that land so cheep ! "   Grin
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« Last Edit: 06/18/23 at 19:31:25 by MMRanch »  

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Re: Picking the best pistol caliber
Reply #68 - 06/20/23 at 03:49:34
 

Alaska natives going out near streams in fishing season carry heavy cast 44 magnums and heavy cast 10mm magnums for grizzly bear deterrence just until they can get over to pick up their long gun to stop the problem bear.

Slug loads in shotguns, large buckshot loads, 45-70 lever actions are popular choices for a truck gun that can be carried as your long gun backup while fishing in bear country.

NOTE:  These rounds are also noted as generally good car door penetrator rounds ......

357 heavy cast out of a pistol is discussed a lot but not positively.   Six shots out of a 357 revolver may kill the bear, eventually, but only after the enraged bear finishes mauling you.  

357 magnum and 350 Legend using heavy cast bullets out of a rifle gets some approval as the heavy cast slugs do penetrate more deeply out of a lever action.

450 AR gets the nod for a modern sporting rifle load as tentatively does the new 40 Legend round (no real shootings for 40 Legend yet as it has just now hit the market).  Both 450 AR and 40 Legend get dinged for higher recoil than most women would enjoy shooting.   Part of this comes from the hard, narrow AR butt stock designs that came over from the .223 era.


==================================


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4woy2rr0pE&ab_channel=BananaBallistics

Got some additional information on 450 Bushmaster which says it UNDERPERFORMS to the 350 Legend on steel penetration due to much lower velocity at any given range.   We know velocity counts and from past experience that 350 Legend penetrates better than what its factory numbers would generally indicate.  

The hollow point nose of my 147 grain .355 subsonic slugs simply blows up when fired over 2200 fps, but losing the open petals does not stop the resulting wadded up looking jacket-less cylinder form continuing on, penetrating over 20 inches of FBI gel as a kinda sorta tumbling wadcutter  bullet.  

Yes, you DO always blow off the folded over petals and tear and peel off the copper jacket at those speeds, but the resulting soft lead cylinder form expands some on the front end, tumbles, flattens and mangles up meat very nicely as it penetrates on through the animal.

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« Last Edit: 06/28/23 at 04:27:48 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Picking the best pistol caliber
Reply #69 - 06/20/23 at 08:21:52
 
Ruttly wrote on 06/09/23 at 11:58:55:
I won’t tell you the caliber


I want it to be a Surprise !



OK, we are now all braced and ready ----- Surprise us.
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Re: Picking the best pistol caliber
Reply #70 - 06/20/23 at 10:17:38
 
My brother used to load his .38 special wad cutters backwards into shell , seemed to increase how much slug distorts upon reaching its destination.
I’ve got incredibly hot 357 rounds but they go thru everything. Wad cutters backwards tear $hit up but stop a destination. Next to that is a 20” over under .357 maximum , not a magnum with a 3”chamber 20 gauge for things larger than humans. Slugs or buckshot loads. H/P slugs really tear $hit up too , super fun round. At home I load it with bird shot & .38 wad cutter and wad cutters in the revolver. So nothing travels beyond destination.
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Re: Picking the best pistol caliber
Reply #71 - 06/20/23 at 11:07:16
 
Bullet Style makes a difference.   Here is a story from the 38 Long Colt and its 130gr. round nose bullet.   :

History and usage
The cartridge's relatively poor ballistics were highlighted during the Philippine–American War of 1899–1902, when reports from U.S. Army officers were received regarding the .38 bullet's inability to stop charges of frenzied Moro juramentados during the Moro Rebellion, even at extremely close ranges.[5][6][7][8] A typical instance occurred in 1905 and was later recounted by Colonel Louis A. LaGarde:

Antonio Caspi, a prisoner on the island of Samar, P.I. attempted escape on Oct. 26, 1905. He was shot four times at close range in a hand-to-hand encounter by a .38 Colt's revolver loaded with U.S. Army regulation ammunition. He was finally stunned by a blow on the forehead from the butt end of a Springfield carbine.[9]

Col. LaGarde noted Caspi's wounds were fairly well-placed: three bullets entered the chest, perforating the lungs. One passed through the body, one lodged near the back and the other lodged in subcutaneous tissue. The fourth round went through the right hand and exited through the forearm.[10]

As an emergency response to the round's unexpectedly dismal performance, the U.S. Army authorized officers to carry M1873 Colt Single Action Army revolvers, chambered in .45 Colt, and issued from reserve stocks. Army Ordnance also purchased a number of M1902 revolvers (the M1902 was an improved version of Colt's Double Action Army Model 1878, a .45-caliber rod-ejector double-action revolver) for issue to officers deploying overseas.

The .38 Long Colt remained the Army's primary revolver cartridge until 1909, when the .45 M1909 cartridge[b] was issued along with the .45 Colt New Service revolver as the new standard military sidearm for the U.S. Army. However, some of the old .38 Long Colt revolvers and ammunition remained in reserve stocks, and when the U.S. entered World War I in 1917, the need for sidearms was such that even these low-performing weapons were brought out of storage for usage away from the front lines.

In civilian use, the .38 LC was chambered in a number of Colt revolvers and saw some use among target shooters. Various U.S. police forces also adopted the cartridge. However, the cartridge became nearly extinct after Smith & Wesson's more powerful .38 Special cartridge became widely popular as a civilian and police service cartridge. By 1908, even Colt was chambering their new Police Positive and Army Special revolvers in ".38 Colt Special", which was just a standard .38 Smith & Wesson Special with a different headstamp.[11][12]

I like the bullets that blow-up , I've seen them work on deer size targets .  I've also seen 30-06 180 gr.SP pass right through deer with hardly any effect.   Give me a .243 70gr.XTP every time -
That 38cal. 140gr. HBWC  must "SPLAT" REALLY GOOD !
I used to frog hunt long ago with 177 cal pellets loaded backward and do head shots.   One jump and they land hard.

I really hope I never have a close range Bear encounter !   At least with people there is a chance that a warning shot will end the encounter .
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Re: Picking the best pistol caliber
Reply #72 - 06/25/23 at 20:05:44
 

Gently, gently ........

You must have realized you were kinda sorta "historical comparing" weak 38 caliber revolver cartridges to stronger more modern cartridges, such as the 9mm Parabellum and the 357.

Your comparisons also ring true and "similar to" comparing 9mm Parabellum to modern 40 caliber rounds.   About the same performance gaps exist as your old military rounds that ran at historical lesser pressures.

180 grain powder coated cast bullets from my 40 S&W long barrel 24 round magazine Glock at around 1,050 fps would flat ring a bruin's chimes if you shot him in the head a few times.  You could get over the panic and then engage in disciplined aimed fire at his spine and his skull until the bear quit moving  ........  24 rounds is a whole lot of shooting.

Six shots from a .357 would be a relatively short amount of shots to bet your life on as your misses would hurt you relatively more with only six shots  ..... in this sense 24 shots out of the 40 S&W would be a lot safer.
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« Last Edit: 06/26/23 at 19:06:39 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Picking the best pistol caliber
Reply #73 - 06/25/23 at 22:58:03
 
If it doesn’t jam
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Re: Picking the best pistol caliber
Reply #74 - 06/26/23 at 07:21:49
 

So far, no jams.

40 S&W vs 10mm is somewhat complicated by the FBI having downloaded the 10mm with powder loads and bullet weights that mocked what the 40 S&W would be when it finally came out.

I admit that a full on 10mm loading is more than I'd care to shoot a lot of  ----  by the same tolken a reloader can put together similar "10mm lower range" of loads using Longshot powder right out of the factory supplied on line 40 S&W load listings.   Longshot can put a good bit of umph into that short brass case.

In consideration of female officers (and of limp wrist male FBI desk weenies) the FBI downloaded both the 10mm and the 40 S&W to the milder side in attempts to make it more friendly to shoot and to back the round down the ever shallower FBI penetration levels.

I shoot a lot of wimpy lead cast practice rounds --- I had me a teenage daughter at the time who liked to go shooting with her old man.   My weak practice rounds would penetrate and break your spine even if being "shooter friendly" to her.

She liked shooting her 40, and she took it with her when she married.

9mm ball ammo penetrates on somewhat the same level as my 40 S&W cast lead practice ammo.  

The hole size and tumble destruction is bigger on the 40 S&W of course ......


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« Last Edit: 06/26/23 at 19:52:31 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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