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Beefing up the Clutch (Read 1490 times)
DragBikeMike
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Re: Beefing up the Clutch
Reply #180 - 07/07/23 at 00:44:23
 
Reducing the free-play to eliminate drag made me concerned about case deflection.   Was I losing release travel to case deflection.  If the case is deflecting, something will fail eventually.  So, I checked the deflection with a dial indicator.  It’s only about .003”.   That works out to a little over 4% of available travel.  Not a big deal in terms of clutch drag, but it could be a big deal in terms of clutch cover durability.  I squeeze that lever hundreds of times every ride.  Fatigue is inevitable.  That linear indication looks questionable.  Inspection at 5X magnification indicates that it’s a scratch, but I’ve been fooled before.  I must keep an eye on that.  Let’s hope it’s just a scratch.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Beefing up the Clutch
Reply #181 - 07/07/23 at 00:45:00
 
Reducing the spring installed height to increase preload moved the release plate to the left.  It was already to the point where I had to use a shim between the push piece and the release bearing in order to achieve correct lever alignment with the marks on the crankcase.  That was with the longest pushrod.  Now I had to resort to a spacer instead of a shim.  I simply don’t have much to work with anymore.  Look at that spacer.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Beefing up the Clutch
Reply #182 - 07/07/23 at 00:54:21
 
So, the hybrid clutch requires the wave-washer for smooth, consistent, and progressive operation.  You will need to adjust the clutch lever free play so that it is minimal (for me, that was 1/16”) in order to eliminate clutch drag.

The hybrid clutch, with its additional friction surface, can’t hold all the power that you can potentially make.  It works fine up to a point, but past that point you need more spring pressure to hold the power.  Bottom line, if ya wanna play ya gotta pay.  Get a Sneezy release cam, because you ain’t gonna be able to jack up that spring pressure without the Sneezy cam.

I’m currently hangin on by a thread.  The clutch is holdin the power, but I’ve got the motor dumbed down.  Two days ago, I dropped my needle one-notch.  That amped up my power.  It’s frisky.  If the clutch continues to hold and I don’t end up with a bunch of metal chips on my drain plug, I will pull back on the main jet.  If the clutch holds, time to start thinkin about another engine combo (assuming the main bearings and trans hack the mission too).

I love this stuff.

Hey Sneezy, got any more cams?  Can you have more manufactured?  For yooz guys on the fence, if you have any inclination to make a bit more power (even the slightest inclination), you might wanna get one of these release cams and hang on to it.  It will be your ace in the hole.  These guys don’t grow on trees and they are unobtanium at your local Suzuki Dealer or Independent Shop.

Hey Dave, I know you recently posted on your release cam failure.  Anything new to share?  How’s your wave-washer workin out?

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Re: Beefing up the Clutch
Reply #183 - 07/07/23 at 03:48:10
 
Mike:

Yep......I installed the wave washer and thicker outer plate, and the annoying squeally/grabby issue is gone. I replaced the thrust washers as they had noticeable wear on them.  Prior to doing this I had to be slow on engaging the clutch - if I let it out too rapidly the squeal would occur.

My oil system is stock, I am using stock clutch springs and Barnett Kevlar fiber discs and now the Sneezy cam (I broke the stock one a month ago).

When I installed the thicker outer plate and wave washer I had to make my own push rod, as none of the factory ones were long enough. I cut a section out of a long aircraft drill and shaped the ends curved on a grinding wheel.....then polished them smooth with sandpaper while spinning them in my drill press. It took several attempts to get the length just right.....I kept grinding off a little bit at a time to get the lever in the proper operating range.  (I know you use shims under the throw out bearing.....I didn't have any appropriate shims/washers to do that).

The clutch works really smoothly and it doesn't slip.  Like you I am finding neutral at a stop a bit difficult - but I adapted and would just find neutral as I was just about to roll to a stop.  Most times I can find neutral as I go from 2nd gear and push lightly down on the pedal and it now has become routine.

 
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TheSneeze
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Re: Beefing up the Clutch
Reply #184 - 07/07/23 at 08:24:38
 
DBM - as of this morning, I only have a couple left.  I need to keep one for my hot rod motor under construction, and two sold this morning.  Yes, I can have another batch made, but the rate of sales dropped way off after the first volley.  Minimum production run is 25.  Once I run out of stock, I will see if the demand will support another run.
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Re: Beefing up the Clutch
Reply #185 - 07/07/23 at 09:01:10
 
TheSneeze wrote on 07/07/23 at 08:24:38:
DBM - as of this morning, I only have a couple left.  I need to keep one for my hot rod motor under construction, and two sold this morning.  Yes, I can have another batch made, but the rate of sales dropped way off after the first volley.  Minimum production run is 25.  Once I run out of stock, I will see if the demand will support another run.

I sent you a message, I definitely want one.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Beefing up the Clutch
Reply #186 - 07/08/23 at 19:08:56
 
One thing I forgot to stress.  My stock clutch, like totally stock, handled over 41 horsepower just fine.  Not too many forum members will take their engine that far, so the stock clutch can hack it for the average bear.  For those individuals, the Sneezy cam is still an important piece of hardware because we consistently see failed release cams on relatively stock engines, or engines in a mild state of tune.  The OEM release cam is junk, and when it fails it has the potential to wreck your engine.  Chunks of that sucker get tangled up in your primary drive and it's gonna break something, BIGTIME.

For engines that get a decent upgrade in the power department, the stock clutch can be modified to handle the additional power.  As long as you have a Sneezy cam, all you will probably need is a set of the Barnett springs.  If that doesn't hold the power, then a set of the old DR springs should do the trick.  The Sneezy cam combined with a set of springs is a very inexpensive upgrade, and it should get you puttin that new found power to the ground.

The hybrid clutch, the one this post was all about (seven fiber plates, six steel plates, DR clutch hub), should only be needed when you start gettin serious with the horsepower.
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TheSneeze
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Re: Beefing up the Clutch
Reply #187 - 07/10/23 at 21:42:57
 
All that have sold, are shipped.  My remaining inventory is 3.  When these are shipped I will start another run.  There will be a couple of weeks lead time on any others.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Beefing up the Clutch
Reply #188 - 07/10/23 at 23:48:41
 
Because it bears repeating


The OEM release cam is junk,

It's sintered metal and it has an internal absolute perfect 90,with No radius. I had put washers under my springs,, but I wasn't the one riding it, my first ex SIL , who, well,, he probably pulled the lever All the Way to the handlebar,, but others have seen failures on completely stock clutches.
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Re: Beefing up the Clutch
Reply #189 - 07/11/23 at 09:21:18
 
I wonder, that thing is sintered because it had to be very hard (I think).
Are those replacements also hardened?
What steel are they made of?
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TheSneeze
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Re: Beefing up the Clutch
Reply #190 - 07/11/23 at 15:00:02
 
Sintered, or powdered metal, is very brittle.  The clutch cams I had made are AR500 alloy.  The same stuff used in armor plating.  Look it up on the interwebs and you can read about the properties of it.
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Every twenty minute job is a stripped thread away from being a three day ordeal.

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Re: Beefing up the Clutch
Reply #191 - 07/13/23 at 04:59:45
 
DragBikeMike wrote on 07/08/23 at 19:08:56:
One thing I forgot to stress.  My stock clutch, like totally stock, handled over 41 horsepower just fine.  Not too many forum members will take
The hybrid clutch, the one this post was all about (seven fiber plates, six steel plates, DR clutch hub), should only be needed when you start gettin serious with the horsepower.


As DragBikeMike says - the stock clutch works well for stock and mildly modified engines.  If your stock clutch is slipping with a stock engine there is something wrong with the clutch and it needs some maintenance.

My engine has a 95mm Wiseco, Performance Cam, Ported Head, 38MM Mikuni Round Slide, Big Foam Filter and good exhaust.....I don't make DragBikeMikes' 41 HP - but it is noticeably more HP than stock.  I also have very tall gearing and the engine turns 4,000 rpm at 70mph in 5th gear.

My stock clutch never slipped when it was fully engaged.  If I was hard on the throttle and shifting through the gears - there was a slight lag in clutch engaging fully if I got on the throttle hard as the clutch lever was being released.  When I has accelerating hard I made sure the clutch lever was fully released before I applied a lot of throttle, and I rode the bike that way for about 14,000 miles without any issues.

Recently I did the DR650 clutch modification and it grabs better than the stock clutch.  The DR650 clutch hub that is needed is a bit expensive to buy and a little rare....the ones on eBay are often offered as the entire clutch assembly.  (There is one seller on eBay that bead blasts all the parts he sells to make them look better - don't buy that one as the friction surface that is polished has been ruined by the bead blasting).

I did the DR650 modification and used the stock clutch release cam as the Sneeze version was not yet available.....my clutch cam broke after a few thousand miles and did some damage in the process.  It damaged my clutch basket, the DR650 clutch hub, one fiber and one steel plate......it was likely $200 worth of parts that was damaged if you buy the replacement used (more if you buy them new).

Everyone who has the mechanical ability should install the Verslagen head plug and cam chain tensioner...and the Sneezy clutch cam to make their bike more reliable.

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Re: Beefing up the Clutch
Reply #192 - 07/13/23 at 09:32:45
 
I am officially out of stock.  I am heading over to my manufacture's place this morning to get another run started.  I will post up a new thread when I get the next batch completed.  Thanks for the support, guys!  I am really happy I could come up with an improved part the helps keep your Savages alive.

EDIT - I actually have two left (my mistake).  I should have the new batch within two weeks.
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« Last Edit: 07/15/23 at 13:43:57 by TheSneeze »  

Every twenty minute job is a stripped thread away from being a three day ordeal.

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'86 LS650g Savage (parts bike)
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TheSneeze
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Re: Beefing up the Clutch
Reply #193 - 08/14/23 at 16:31:27
 
I have been away on a trip for the last 2-1/2 weeks. The new batch should be in my hands in the next week or so.  The current on hand quantity is still two.
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Every twenty minute job is a stripped thread away from being a three day ordeal.

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'86 LS650g Savage (parts bike)
'81 Kawasaki KZ750e ELR tribute
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