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DR 650 cam installation (Read 989 times)
nickbilljim
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Re: DR 650 cam installation
Reply #30 - 01/28/21 at 05:04:16
 
I got on to my supplier and changed my order to the newer ones ,they are the same price. Thanks for the advice
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nickbilljim
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Re: DR 650 cam installation
Reply #31 - 02/09/21 at 04:07:08
 
I am getting the D R cam this week, what size drill bit l should I use for the oil holes on the cam
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Ruttly
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Re: DR 650 cam installation
Reply #32 - 02/09/21 at 11:03:08
 
If you have the older rockers Web Cams will weld and regrind your rockers. I had both done when they were doing the cam. Warning it ain’t cheap , most likely cheaper to buy new one. If you are reusing the rockers be sure to replace the adjuster tips , they are cheap. This is no area to get cheap , do it right or prepare to do it again , $$$
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Gary_in_NJ
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Re: DR 650 cam installation
Reply #33 - 02/09/21 at 12:16:02
 
nickbilljim wrote on 02/09/21 at 04:07:08:
I am getting the D R cam this week, what size drill bit l should I use for the oil holes on the cam


It's not so much "drilling" a hole, it's machining a hole.

/dragbikemike or /dave - can you give some guidance on this?
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Dave
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Re: DR 650 cam installation
Reply #34 - 02/09/21 at 13:47:58
 
Ruttly wrote on 02/09/21 at 11:03:08:
If you have the older rockers Web Cams will weld and regrind your rockers. I had both done when they were doing the cam. Warning it ain’t cheap , most likely cheaper to buy new one.


Absolutely buy new ones - Web Cam charges $125 each!  You can buy both new rockers for the price of getting one welded.
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Dave
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Re: DR 650 cam installation
Reply #35 - 02/09/21 at 13:54:54
 
I will have to go and look to see what size drill I used.  I matched the size of the stock Savage camshaft.

Yep, as the "nervous" type of a guy I took this a little bit more serious than a quick job with a hand drill.

First I made a fixture to hold the cam in the right place....I used a stock camshaft to locate the holes.  The holes are not in the center of the base lobe.....they are just before the rocker contacts the ramp for the cam to lift the rocker.

Then I use a center drill to locate the correct spot for the hole and keep the small drill from wandering around.

Then I drill the hole.

Then I countersink the top of the hole to remove any burrs (like the factory does).

Cam being drilled:

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« Last Edit: 02/09/21 at 16:02:43 by Dave »  

DR650camdrill2.jpg

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Dave
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Re: DR 650 cam installation
Reply #36 - 02/09/21 at 13:55:33
 
I can  change bits without changing the hole location - so I can center drill, drill and countersink by just changing bits......the cam stays in the same location.

Photo of countersink.  (Note - what looks like pits in the cam is actually shavings from the drilling).
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DR650camdrill1.jpg

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Dave
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Re: DR 650 cam installation
Reply #37 - 02/09/21 at 16:00:42
 
The holes in the bottom of the cam lobes are #47 drill (0.078").

The center hole in the Savage cam is #48 drill (0.076").

You might be able to use the same size drill for both - but Suzuki didn't for some reason.
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nickbilljim
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Re: DR 650 cam installation
Reply #38 - 02/13/21 at 02:56:45
 
We are fitting my new cam and rockers tomorrow ,a couple of questions before I do
              first how can I check if the oil is being pumped to the top end before I reassemble (the engine is still in the bike)?
            second I am using the savage cam sprocket on the D R cam is this correct?
       I know the valve clearances and the sizes of the holes to be drilled in the cam.is there anything else I really need to know before we go ahead.
           Again thanks for all your help
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Re: DR 650 cam installation
Reply #39 - 02/13/21 at 03:57:11
 
You are going to use the original Suzuki Savage cam sprocket.....the DR on won't work in the Savage.

The only way I know to check the oil flow into the upper end, is to get the bike running and see if there is oil splashing around.  After you get the bike running, remove the front oil inspection port and look around - when you put the engine together is was dry up there......you should see that oi has been thrown around everywhere if the pump is working.  If the pump is not working - not only would your cam lobes have been toast....the cam bearings would have been as well.

Nobody has mentioned the cam and rocker break in yet - it is very important.

I spray a thin coat of graphite spray on the cam lobes before I install the camshaft.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Blaster-5-5-oz-Industrial-Graphite-Dry-Lubricant-...

You should also apply a camshaft assembly lube to the cam lobes.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hrs-99005?rrec=true

I apply a light coating of grease to the cam bearings, as it is easier to keep grease from running out onto the areas that I am going to be apply the sealer (oil is runny).  This should be a very light film that won't squeeze out as the head cover is being installed.

Use a good break in oil.  These oils have a high ZDDP content, no multi-viscosity additives, and a very low detergent content.  This give you the most oil molecules as the oil has very few additives to take up room that could be used for oil.  The bad part of this oil change is that if you take off the oil filter housing - you will need to crank the engine over long enough to get the oil filter housing full of oil - and that is not a good thing on a new camshaft.  I would change the oil in the crankcase and leave the filter alone.  The break in oil should be used for 100 miles or so, and then replaced with Rotella T-6.
https://www.competitionproducts.com/Brad-Penn-PENN-GRADE-1-Break-In-Oil-30W-Q...

Once you have the above things done, you have adjusted the valve clearance and are ready to start the bike - stand the bike as upright as possible by placing a block under the kickstand.  Then using the front valve inspection port - fill the trough under the camshaft with oil.  You can do this with a hand oil can and an extension tube - or a squeeze bottle and a tube.

When you are ready to start the bike, make sure you can get it running and up to 2,000 rpm or so right away and keep it running.  Cam folks say to keep the engine running at this speed for 20 minutes or so before you shut the engine down or allow the rpm to drop.  This is not a good idea on a stationary air cooled engine - so going for a ride is the best way to beat this problem.  If it is impossible to go for a ride - then use fans to cool the engine.

Here is the same description oriented toward cars.

Procedure

   Install the Camshaft.
   Set the Valve Lash or Preload as recommended by the manufacturer.
   Prime the Oiling System.
   Set the Initial Ignition Timing.
   For carbureted engines, make sure fuel bowls are full and any air is bled from the fuel lines.
   Start the engine and immediately raise rpm to 3,000.
   Vary rpm between 1,500 and 3,000 for the next 20-30 minutes.
       Use a slow, steady acceleration/deceleration pattern.
   Shut down the engine and let it cool.
   Drain the oil and change the oil filter.
       This removes any metal particles from the break-in process.
   Refill the engine with break-in oil.

The initial break-in is now complete. After the next 500 miles of normal driving, change the oil and oil filter again.  


Could you get it done by doing less........maybe?  I just try to do as much as I can to help the cam survive the critical break in period.  With a proper break in and continued maintenance the camshaft is durable......youzguyz has over 200,000 miles on his stock camshaft and the early one piece rockers.

The experience of this forum shows that oil with low ZDDP causes the cam lobes and rocker pads to fail - while low idle speed results in low oil pressure and the cam bearings fail.
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« Last Edit: 02/13/21 at 05:23:35 by Dave »  

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DragBikeMike
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Re: DR 650 cam installation
Reply #40 - 02/13/21 at 10:42:14
 
NBJ, good luck with your new cam installation.  Dave's advice is spot on.  You also might want to consider some of the oiling mods outlined in this old post.  They are easy to do.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1596951230

Absolutely follow Dave's advice on pre-oiling the top end.  Using an oil pump-can through an open valve cover is easy and well worth your time.  If you had an oil pressure gage, you could crank it with the starter until pressure builds up on the gage.  Mine usually takes about three ten-second cranks to register pressure on my gage.  You have to let the strater cool for about five-minutes between crank cycles before cranking again.  For reference, pre-oil, crank 10-seconds, let starter cool five-minutes, pre-oil again, repeat two more times.

This old post shows some details on how to install an oil pressure gage on the Savage.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1559853083

As you can see from the two posts, I have since moved the location of the pressure tap to the center oil passage.  The pressure tap location described in the post on head cover mods is a lot easier.  You could install the fitting now and cap it off until you have all the other parts you need to install the gage.  That way, when you do your pre-oil, you could crack the cap loose during your pre-oiling routine and observe that oil is reaching the top end, then tighten the cap.

In your case, I think its very important to verify oil is getting to your top end.  I don't believe you ever arrived at any conclusive explanation for your cam and rocker failure.  
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nickbilljim
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Re: DR 650 cam installation
Reply #41 - 02/21/21 at 04:19:14
 
Finally fitted new cam and rockers and in the words of my mechanic (it pulls like a steam train).The only possible cause of the wear was a missing wave washer on the exhaust rocker ,I checked the oil supply to the cam and that is working well
                   Again thanks for all your help. I have attached a photo of the offending parts ,will the cam be of any use to someone or is it scrap
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Dave
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Re: DR 650 cam installation
Reply #42 - 02/21/21 at 04:37:51
 
Glad that it is back together and running as it should.

Send the damaged Cam to Lancer.....he can use it as a core for the welding and repair to make a Webcam Stage 3 cam.
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