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Cam Chain (Read 501 times)
Dave
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Re: Cam Chain
Reply #15 - 07/04/20 at 03:42:22
 
I removed the pawl, left the extension spring inside, and made a spacer that limits the backward travel.  I left about 1mm of space for the plunger to move backwards as the engine warms up.  I did that 2 years ago but I did not ride the bike much last summer as I was fighting a handling issue and I had 2 other bikes to ride.

Not sure how long it will be before I open the engine up to peak inside.  I think my next experiment will be to fiddle around with the clutch plates and see if I can figure out a way to make more grip.
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badwolf
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Re: Cam Chain
Reply #16 - 07/04/20 at 06:26:15
 
Dave, I just added one steel plate to the clutch pack and made a longer pushrod to get the adjustment right, and it made a world of difference!
I was getting a little slipping when hitting it to pass or shifting hard. Now it is much more solid. One clutch plate, a short piece of rod and finally broke down and installed a new gasket. A cheap fix, and it worked.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Cam Chain
Reply #17 - 07/10/20 at 01:37:21
 
So, a total of seven chains.  Six are used junk that I got from various eBay bulk parts purchases, and one is a brand new 2016 OEM chain.  Time to do some measuring.  I used this setup to guarantee an even playing field for all the chains.  The ten-pound weight ensures that each chain has exactly the same amount of force applied.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Cam Chain
Reply #18 - 07/10/20 at 01:38:37
 
The factory service manual specifies a wear limit of 5.070” over 21 pins (center-to-center).  It’s pretty hard to measure that right to the gnats behind so I rounded to the nearest .005” increment.  Here are the results of pin measurements.
New 2016 chain:      4.990”
Chain #1:            5.005”
Chain #2:            5.010”
Chain #3:            5.010”
Chain #4:            5.010”
Chain #5:            5.000”
Chain #6:            5.005”
As you can see, none of these even come close to the wear limit.  Either I’m awfully lucky and randomly got a whole bunch of perfectly good $130 cam chains from engines that all had almost zero mileage….or…..the chains don’t wear out very fast.

3/17/22 Measured original OEM chain after logging about 23,500 hard miles.  It (chain #7) was 5.010”.  
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« Last Edit: 03/17/22 at 23:25:01 by DragBikeMike »  

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Re: Cam Chain
Reply #19 - 07/10/20 at 01:39:22
 
Let’s try another method of measurement.  I measured sprocket bore to sprocket bore.  That will also account for any wear on the chain cleats.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Cam Chain
Reply #20 - 07/10/20 at 01:41:22
 
Results for sprocket to sprocket are as follows.

New 2016 chain:      10.290”
Chain #1:            10.310”
Chain #2:            10.330”
Chain #3:            10.320”
Chain #4:            10.340”
Chain #5:            10.310”
Chain #6:            10.335”

If you consider that the factory wear limit on the pin measurement is about .080” over a brand new chain, and then look at how much the sprocket to sprocket measurement varies new vs old, things still look rosy for the used chains.  Worst case (chain #4) is only .050” greater than a brand new chain.

3/17/22.  Measured original OEM chain after logging 23,500 hard miles.  Chain #7 was 10.343”.
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« Last Edit: 03/17/22 at 23:27:57 by DragBikeMike »  

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Re: Cam Chain
Reply #21 - 07/10/20 at 01:42:01
 
Let’s look at the rear chain follower, the one that keeps tension on the chain.  This is an old used follower (eBay bulk junk purchase) compared to a brand-new OEM follower.  Note how much greater the arc of the new follower is compared to the flattened out used follower.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Cam Chain
Reply #22 - 07/10/20 at 01:42:38
 
Here’s another shot.  You can see the rear guide’s get up & go got up & went.  I contend the problem most lies in the rear chain follower/guide.
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Re: Cam Chain
Reply #23 - 07/10/20 at 01:43:14
 
In this picture, you can see the guide is old and cracked, but the rubber is not worn away.  The guide is not robust and looses it’s arc.
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Re: Cam Chain
Reply #24 - 07/10/20 at 01:43:49
 
The jack bolt installed in the head rectifies the problem by restoring the arc of the follower.  It allows the tensioner to maintain correct extension (12mm or less)), and in doing so, keeps the drive side of the chain well away from the slack side.
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Re: Cam Chain
Reply #25 - 07/10/20 at 01:44:44
 
Extending the tensioner with the Verslavy is a good fix if you don’t have the cylinder head removed, but if the cylinder head is off, I think adding the jack bolt is a really good option.  It’s not very difficult and keeps the cam chain geometry closer to the original design.  It also allows you to adjust the system during regular inspection and maintenance.
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Re: Cam Chain
Reply #26 - 07/10/20 at 10:01:49
 
Mike, GREAT WORK!!! When I changed my chain at 80k I could not see any wear on the old one in slop or twist. Looked at the follower but saw no real wear on the surface so put it back in. I did not have a new one to compare it to. Now you have comfirmed my thoughts the follower is the culprit. The heat/expand - cool/shrink cycles combined with the pawl on the plunger is too much stress for it to take. Next time I have mine apart, I'll see if beefing-up the curve is possible.
When you are reassembling the engine try the old and new followers and compare the plunger extenson.
Your jack bolt looks good, but if the follower could be restored to stay at its stock curve I could leave the head on. I'll do a compression test and check oil usage at 150k, if things seem good I'll try to get to 200 before a rebuild.
I don't push hard any more (old) and my high gearing keeps me under 4 grand almost all the time. I'll shoot for 200k without spliting the cases, or pulling the jug or head.
I think the best thing to do is - AFTER BREAK - IN - remove the pawl and put a spacer behind the plunger with 1 - 2mm movement allowed. Without the heat/cool cycles stressing the follower it should retain it's shape and allow the chain to run it's life (100k+ miles ) without the plunger blowing up the primary case.
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Re: Cam Chain
Reply #27 - 07/10/20 at 10:29:35
 
I proposed doing that at the bottom of the cylinder and was poo-poo'd.
But it looks like you found a spot with more meat.
and there is a spot behind the starter that we might be able to put in a manual adjuster

https://thumpertalk.com/shop/ThumperTalk-Manual-Cam-Chain-Tensioner-ENG-TT-MC...
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« Last Edit: 07/10/20 at 14:05:56 by verslagen1 »  
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norm92de
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Re: Cam Chain
Reply #28 - 07/10/20 at 10:53:07
 
When I removed mine I was surprised at the flexibility of the system, (read rear guide.)

As stated before I removed the pawl spring and restricted the rearward movement of the plunger.

We can only speculate about- what if Suzuki had done what every other manufacturer does, i.e. a spring loaded adjustable plunger at the rear of the cylinder.

How easy is it to remove the rear guide with the cylinder in place?
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Cam Chain
Reply #29 - 07/10/20 at 11:18:26
 
"I proposed doing that at the bottom of the cylinder and was poo-poo'd.
But it looks like you found a spot with more meat.
and there is a spot behind the starter that we might be able to put in a manual adjuster"


Versy, I was initially looking at that area, but the oil feed hole runs right there.  It just didn't look like I could install the jack bolt without breaking through the feed hole.  So I moved on to plan B and looked at the head.  As it turns out, the location in the head more closely aligns with the original location of the arc's apex.  It's a perfect spot and functions perfectly.

Hey, how do you get to that ThumperTalk report?  The link doesn't work for me.
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