SuzukiSavage.com - Deficits Don't Matter... Right?

LostArtist

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Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Reply #15 - 10/17/18 at 11:46:46

WebsterMark wrote on 10/17/18 at 11:19:22:

but I don't think that it's fair that my intern pays the same rate as me.

I do. I don't understand the thinking why it should be anything other than that. If you want to explain it away with fairness, then I'd argue you don’t really mean that. The owner of my company is filthy rich. He literally owns an island overseas with 7 houses on it. I’m sure he’s got a crap load of lawyers who figure out a way for him to pay less in taxes than I do.
Do I care? No. He employs over 7,000 people worldwide. The economic trickle down from the cities where our manufacturing plants are located is enormous. I don’t think he owes a thing.

and you think the left is indoctrinated....

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Serowbot YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline OK.... so what's the speed of dark? Posts: 28376 Tucson Az Gender:	Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right? Reply #16 - 10/17/18 at 11:51:42 It's tRump's blood from turnips plan...
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LostArtist

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Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Reply #17 - 10/17/18 at 11:56:18

WebsterMark wrote on 10/17/18 at 10:21:17:

Anything's on the table, but the reality is the majority of the spending is on mandatory items like SS, Medicare etc...

Here's a point to consider. I'll be careful here because I don't want to say too much what I do because I would be easy to find, but if I break down into the various cost components of what my product has an impact on, energy cost is 70%. Four other components make up the remaining 30%. If an end user wants to address their overall cost concerns, they’ve got a choice of five components to look at. You could spend an enormous amount of time and money addressing each of the four and perhaps lower them by 5% each. Or you could lower 70% of your total cost by 20%. You lower your cost far more and the energy expended to do so is far less which maximizes your returns.
So sure, everything’s on the table but the bulk of what we spend is in a few areas.

fine, now pick your pie piece to focus your energy on to maximize the efficiency of spending cuts....

hold on, just found an article saying that chart is misleading... gimme a bit

okay, this is more accurate:

same question, show us oh great one, why cutting SS and Medicare is such a smarter idea than cutting defense which is way over funding considering we have the largest military in the world a few times over (meaning that it'll take 10 nations to combine to even equal ours)

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WebsterMark

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Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Reply #18 - 10/17/18 at 12:02:28

LostArtist wrote on 10/17/18 at 11:46:46:

WebsterMark wrote on 10/17/18 at 11:19:22:

but I don't think that it's fair that my intern pays the same rate as me.

I do. I don't understand the thinking why it should be anything other than that. If you want to explain it away with fairness, then I'd argue you don’t really mean that. The owner of my company is filthy rich. He literally owns an island overseas with 7 houses on it. I’m sure he’s got a crap load of lawyers who figure out a way for him to pay less in taxes than I do.
Do I care? No. He employs over 7,000 people worldwide. The economic trickle down from the cities where our manufacturing plants are located is enormous. I don’t think he owes a thing.

and you think the left is indoctrinated....

Does he or does he not contribute hundreds of thousands of dollars?

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WebsterMark

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Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Reply #19 - 10/17/18 at 12:08:11

same question, show us oh great one (again, don't be a d!ic, I'm not) why cutting SS and Medicare is such a smarter idea than cutting defense I think your graph just did.

I think your graph just did. 53% is in two areas, military is 16%.

You want to talk about military cuts, I'm fine with dicussing.

By the way, i just saw Trump said he's asked each department to cut 5%.

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T And T Garage

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Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Reply #20 - 10/17/18 at 12:44:05

LostArtist wrote on 10/17/18 at 11:46:46:

WebsterMark wrote on 10/17/18 at 11:19:22:

but I don't think that it's fair that my intern pays the same rate as me.

I do. I don't understand the thinking why it should be anything other than that. If you want to explain it away with fairness, then I'd argue you don’t really mean that. The owner of my company is filthy rich. He literally owns an island overseas with 7 houses on it. I’m sure he’s got a crap load of lawyers who figure out a way for him to pay less in taxes than I do.
Do I care? No. He employs over 7,000 people worldwide. The economic trickle down from the cities where our manufacturing plants are located is enormous. I don’t think he owes a thing.

"Trickle" being the optimum word in your sentence.

Again, you misunderstand. In the 50's - arguably one of the best times economically in the US, the tax rate was graduated up to nearly 90%

The effective rate was nowhere near that official rate. However, businesses invested locally/regionally instead of offshoring. In effect, their "tax dodges" contributed to the country.

It's not at all the same anymore thanks to ronnie's "trickle". The way he cut taxes on the rich and corporations did exactly what economists said it'd do. Nothing... Well, nothing but triple the debt that is.

Look at it this way - The country is a giant "thing". As Americans, we all have a burden on us to move it along. Why let those who can take more of a burden, do as much (or less) as we do?

and you think the left is indoctrinated....

~~No, I know that the left isn't - why would I say it is? (I think you misspoke)~~ Didn't know that lost put that on.

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Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Reply #21 - 10/17/18 at 12:53:11

WebsterMark wrote on 10/17/18 at 11:12:40:

I don't think your analogy is sufficient.

My analogy is good, but okay, consider other finances.

I was on the committee of a non-profit once. Revenues were dropping.

Why were revenues dropping? That's the first thing you look at when running a business.

We worked to cut expenses everywhere, but ultimately in the end, 75% of the budget was salaries. We could only cut so much from the remaining 25%. You have to pay the light bill, you have to pay for gas, minimal building maintenance, but the only way to stay afloat was to cut from the single largest expense that could be cut. 25% cut out of 75% (or whatever the actual number was, I don’t remember)

Really? 75% was salaries? Wow. That's kind of doomed from the start.

Just like these tax cuts! Every rich person just got a raise - their salary is too high. We need to let them go (monetarily) just like you did.

Thanks for that mark - you do understand!

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Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Reply #22 - 10/17/18 at 12:58:20

WebsterMark wrote on 10/17/18 at 11:04:55:

How do you not know that SS and Medicare are fully funded? There is no reason to touch them.

Medicare is most certainly NOT fully funded and the Feds have 'borrowed' from since its beginning, or shortly thereafter if i recall. Not positive about that.

The 2018 report of Medicare’s trustees finds that Medicare’s Hospital Insurance (HI) trust fund will remain solvent — that is, able to pay 100 percent of the costs of the hospital insurance coverage that Medicare provides — through 2026.

http://www.cbpp.org/research/health/medicare-is-not-bankrupt

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LostArtist

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Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Reply #23 - 10/17/18 at 13:06:59

here's the question, what kind of world do you want?

currently, I hope I'm wrong, I assume you want a dog eat dog world, might makes right and to hell with everyone else

I'm also open to talking about changes to SS and medicare, the income limit on the SS payroll tax should be eliminated, and the retirement age should be raised to 70, we live longer these days it's fair to adjust the retirement age to reflect that.

and it should be medicare for all, yes, taxes would go up, but compared to how much you and companies are paying for monthly premiums, on average I bet it'd be a lot less and you get a better marketplace, currently, it's hard as heck to search to find which healthcare service is the best value, why does an MRI cost $20,000 in NYC and $1000 in small town Iowa (figures are made up to make a point, idk what the real discrepancy is, but the discrepancy is real) promoting preventative care is much cheaper than the ER later, so now, because of Freedom of information, you'll actually be able to see how much something costs before you get it done

and as for a flat tax... maybe, but you'd have to find a way to make sure that poor people aren't being punished (aka, their taxes going up) just cause you feel like life isn't treating you fairly.

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Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Reply #24 - 10/17/18 at 13:17:59

"Trickle" being the optimum word in your sentence.

Again, you misunderstand. In the 50's - arguably one of the best times economically in the US, the tax rate was graduated up to nearly 90%

The effective rate was nowhere near that official rate. However, businesses invested locally/regionally instead of offshoring. In effect, their "tax dodges" contributed to the country.

It's not at all the same anymore thanks to ronnie's "trickle". The way he cut taxes on the rich and corporations did exactly what economists said it'd do. Nothing... Well, nothing but triple the debt that is.

Arguably is an understatement.
There a million differences between 1950's and now, but I don't think very many of them have to do with the tax rate. Sounds like that movie 'Pleasantville'. And you can't blame everything on Ronnie's trickle down.
We spend to much money. Period. Full Stop. Too much money.

Look at it this way - The country is a giant "thing". As Americans, we all have a burden on us to move it along. Why let those who can take more of a burden, do as much (or less) as we do?
They are, they do more than you or I. Why do we have claim to their money because they have more of it. There's a minimum contribution rate for all of us, that's fair, but more than that? Nope.

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WebsterMark Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 12850 Gender:	Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right? Reply #25 - 10/17/18 at 13:20:14 currently, I hope I'm wrong, I assume you want a dog eat dog world, might makes right and to hell with everyone else Yea, you're not even close.
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Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Reply #26 - 10/17/18 at 13:27:56

I like what Trump's doing right now. Every major economic measuring tool is moving forward. Our business is up. Our management reports their talks with major customers are positive. We expanded a plant because of expected demand and the demand was here quicker than we thought, which is a good thing. You might not want to hear it, but business is more comfortable with Trump as President. Sure there are segments that are not, but far more are than aren't. And that's the bottom line.

I said before, I don't have to like Trump. I wouldn't point to him as a role model for children. We needed someone different, someone to break the cycle and he's the one who answered the call. Hilary or Bernie would have been a diaster on so many different levels.

But, I've said this before too, I worked for a guy just like Trump and a guy just like Obama. Both were successful. One I'd want for a neighbor, the other not so much.

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LostArtist Ex Member	Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right? Reply #27 - 10/17/18 at 16:17:20 WebsterMark wrote on 10/17/18 at 13:20:14: currently, I hope I'm wrong, I assume you want a dog eat dog world, might makes right and to hell with everyone else Yea, you're not even close. then prove it. start talking like you care about others instead of just money
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LostArtist

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Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Reply #28 - 10/17/18 at 16:24:37

WebsterMark wrote on 10/17/18 at 13:27:56:

I like what Trump's doing right now. Every major economic measuring tool is moving forward. Our business is up. Our management reports their talks with major customers are positive. We expanded a plant because of expected demand and the demand was here quicker than we thought, which is a good thing. You might not want to hear it, but business is more comfortable with Trump as President. Sure there are segments that are not, but far more are than aren't. And that's the bottom line.

I believe that, the problem is, the sectors that are doing well under Trump, weren't really doing that bad under Obama, they are just skittish and know they can buy congress and elections to get the tax cuts and deregulation they want at OUR expense. Also, business owners are mostly republican and conservative, so now that they have "their guy" in, they feel good, and that's what it's all about, appeasing the owners.

I said before, I don't have to like Trump. I wouldn't point to him as a role model for children. We needed someone different, someone to break the cycle and he's the one who answered the call. Hilary or Bernie would have been a diaster on so many different levels.

But, I've said this before too, I worked for a guy just like Trump and a guy just like Obama. Both were successful. One I'd want for a neighbor, the other not so much.

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Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Reply #29 - 10/18/18 at 07:39:27

LostArtist wrote on 10/17/18 at 16:17:20:

then prove it. start talking like you care about others instead of just money

Would you want that to happen, after, You said:
“… you're just supposed to believe them, they are white guys after all, just believe them..."

Or do you want, proof, of WM caring, before you said:
“… you're just supposed to believe them, they are white guys after all, just believe them..."

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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .

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