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Message started by T And T Garage on 10/17/18 at 06:12:09

Title: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Post by T And T Garage on 10/17/18 at 06:12:09

So say the moronic cons who gave the richest and corporations a huge tax cut.

So how does mitch want to reduce it?

You guessed it - cut Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid...

FYI - The deficit has increased 77 percent since McConnell became majority leader in 2015 - tell us all again how the repubs are fiscally responsible. Y'all have been in charge and this keeps happening... gee, I wonder why?

Federal revenue rose by 0.04 percent in 2018, a nearly 100 percent decrease on last year’s 1.5 percent. In fiscal year 2018, tax receipts on corporate income fell to $205 billion from $297 billion in 2017.

http://www.newsweek.com/deficit-budget-tax-plan-social-security-medicaid-medicare-entitlement-1172941

Hey all you cons nearing (or in) retirement - aren't you just so happy your party is "looking out for you"????

Title: Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Post by T And T Garage on 10/17/18 at 06:20:38

http://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/38904793_10155813668346275_1839987229674438656_n.png?_nc_cat=100&oh=243a663c108efd5bea8b744813a24a97&oe=5C6106DE

Title: Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Post by WebsterMark on 10/17/18 at 06:53:16

Wages are always the last to go up. I have no problem with corporations keeping more of the money they earn. I figure they'll do better with it that the Federal Goverment would.

But you're right, the deficit is too high. We spend an incredible amount of money; about 10 billion a day I remember reading. But taking more money out of the public's hands and giving it to Uncle Sam who created this problem in the first place can't be the long term answer.

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/wage-growth

Title: Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Post by Serowbot on 10/17/18 at 08:25:23

All those years bashing Obama for deficits...
What a waste... ::)

Title: Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Post by T And T Garage on 10/17/18 at 08:36:16

4D7F78696E7F68577B68711A0 wrote:

Then you're OK with them cutting Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, even though the main reason for the shortfall was the tax cut?

So, you go to lunch with someone and what they order is twice as expensive as what you order, and then you split the bill 50/50??

Title: Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Post by LostArtist on 10/17/18 at 08:39:23

7E4C4B5A5D4C5B64485B42290 wrote:

wages haven't gone up SINCE REAGAN, how long do we have to wait????

I have no problem with the government, who gave them a HUGE tax cut, saying, now we are tying your wages to your profits and inflation. but I understand your greed, it's innate in our culture, all ME ME ME, even if that "ME" is a corporation, somehow they've bought your loyalty OVER YOUR FELLOW CITIZENS.

Title: Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Post by WebsterMark on 10/17/18 at 09:12:31

Then you're OK with them cutting Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, even though the main reason for the shortfall was the tax cut?

The main reason for the shortfall is spending, not tax cuts. We've dug ourselves into quite a hole and the solution to get out of it is not to keep taking more and more money from people, is it? What catagories does the US spend the majority of our money in?

So, you go to lunch with someone and what they order is twice as expensive as what you order, and then you split the bill 50/50??
I'm not following your analogy, what are you asking?

Title: Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Post by T And T Garage on 10/17/18 at 09:40:27

536166777061764965766F040 wrote:

Then you're OK with them cutting Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, even though the main reason for the shortfall was the tax cut?

The main reason for the shortfall is spending, not tax cuts.

No, that's not right. You say you're a salesman, then how can you say that when your clients stop paying you for a product that it's your fault because of your costs?

There is less revenue coming in - the bills are what they are.

We've dug ourselves into quite a hole and the solution to get out of it is not to keep taking more and more money from people, is it? What catagories does the US spend the majority of our money in?

Social Security and Medicare are funded by payroll deductions, not "taxes". There's no reason that these should ever be touched. Further, the ceiling on these programs should be raised.

You want to cut programs like entitlements to oil companies? Fine. You want to cut the military budget to a realistic number? Fine.

So, you go to lunch with someone and what they order is twice as expensive as what you order, and then you split the bill 50/50??
I'm not following your analogy, what are you asking?

It's not that tough to follow. If the 1% live high on the hog, then why is their burden less than the middle class?

Title: Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Post by WebsterMark on 10/17/18 at 10:21:17

Then you're OK with them cutting Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, even though the main reason for the shortfall was the tax cut?

The main reason for the shortfall is spending, not tax cuts.

No, that's not right. You say you're a salesman, then how can you say that when your clients stop paying you for a product that it's your fault because of your costs?

There is less revenue coming in - the bills are what they are.

Not a perfect analogy but then most analogys aren't. However, within that context, if I continually increase my expenses without adding a corresponding value to my product, I cannot continually increase prices and expect the same level of revenue. The government increases spending year after year, but since it doesn't 'sell' a product, it can only increase revenue by raising 'prices' aka taxes. "Customers", (US citizens) are objecting to the price increases so expenses have to be cut.

Social Security and Medicare are funded by payroll deductions, not "taxes". That's a tax.

You want to cut programs like entitlements to oil companies? Fine. You want to cut the military budget to a realistic number? Fine.

Anything's on the table, but the reality is the majority of the spending is on mandatory items like SS, Medicare etc...

Here's a point to consider. I'll be careful here because I don't want to say too much what I do because I would be easy to find, but if I break down into the various cost components of what my product has an impact on, energy cost is 70%. Four other components make up the remaining 30%. If an end user wants to address their overall cost concerns, they’ve got a choice of five components to look at. You could spend an enormous amount of time and money addressing each of the four and perhaps lower them by 5% each. Or you could lower 70% of your total cost by 20%. You lower your cost far more and the energy expended to do so is far less which maximizes your returns.
So sure, everything’s on the table but the bulk of what we spend is in a few areas.

There are no easy answers. We've dug ourselves this hole. Everyone is to blame, some more than others, but we are where we are.

Title: Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Post by WebsterMark on 10/17/18 at 10:25:09

It's not that tough to follow. (don't be a d!ck, I'm not) If the 1% live high on the hog, then why is their burden less than the middle class?

The 1% contribute far more than the remaining 99% for one. Secondly, I don't believe it's fair to take more than a certain % from anyone. I'm not sure what that number is but I'd be in favor of a flat tax % and whatever revenue it brings in, that's what the government has to spend and no more.

Title: Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Post by T And T Garage on 10/17/18 at 10:40:33

053730212637201F332039520 wrote:

Then you're OK with them cutting Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, even though the main reason for the shortfall was the tax cut?

The main reason for the shortfall is spending, not tax cuts.

No, that's not right. You say you're a salesman, then how can you say that when your clients stop paying you for a product that it's your fault because of your costs?

There is less revenue coming in - the bills are what they are.

Not a perfect analogy but then most analogys aren't. However, within that context, if I continually increase my expenses without adding a corresponding value to my product, I cannot continually increase prices and expect the same level of revenue. The government increases spending year after year, but since it doesn't 'sell' a product, it can only increase revenue by raising 'prices' aka taxes. "Customers", (US citizens) are objecting to the price increases so expenses have to be cut.

No, they're not. There are far more complaints that the 1% and corporations don't pay enough. Yes, there was a small tax break to the average middle class person in trump's plan. But it is far, far less a percent drop than it was for the 1% and corporations. It's about fair share.

Social Security and Medicare are funded by payroll deductions, not "taxes". That's a tax.

Go ahead and call it a tax - but it's the only tax that goes directly back to the citizen. Not in a road, or the military, or a school. The likes of mitch have no right to cut SS.

You want to cut programs like entitlements to oil companies? Fine. You want to cut the military budget to a realistic number? Fine.

Anything's on the table, but the reality is the majority of the spending is on mandatory items like SS, Medicare etc...

How do you not know that SS and Medicare are fully funded? There is no reason to touch them. But in 10 years, there's going to have to be something done, because by then, they'll be insolvent. One easy way is to raise the income level of SS.

Here's a point to consider. I'll be careful here because I don't want to say too much what I do because I would be easy to find, but if I break down into the various cost components of what my product has an impact on, energy cost is 70%. Four other components make up the remaining 30%. If an end user wants to address their overall cost concerns, they’ve got a choice of five components to look at. You could spend an enormous amount of time and money addressing each of the four and perhaps lower them by 5% each. Or you could lower 70% of your total cost by 20%. You lower your cost far more and the energy expended to do so is far less which maximizes your returns.
So sure, everything’s on the table but the bulk of what we spend is in a few areas.

There are no easy answers. We've dug ourselves this hole. Everyone is to blame, some more than others, but we are where we are.

I don't think your analogy is sufficient. However, you are right, everyone is to blame. But it's guys like mitch that got us in this deep and now, instead of cutting out corporate welfare and putting back taxes to where they should be for the 1%, he's coming after our SS that we already paid for.

I have no problems with cutting spending. I have a problem with them cutting what's rightfully ours.

Title: Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Post by T And T Garage on 10/17/18 at 10:45:10

784A4D5C5B4A5D624E5D442F0 wrote:

Only because they make so much more than the lower 80%. The rich would LOVE a flat tax.

I'm talking about burden, not amount.

A guy with only a dollar in his pocket has to be very careful where he spends it. A guy with $100 could easily lose a dollar and not notice it at all.

I'm not saying tax them at 90%, but I don't think that it's fair that my intern pays the same rate as me.

Title: Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Post by WebsterMark on 10/17/18 at 11:04:55

How do you not know that SS and Medicare are fully funded? There is no reason to touch them.

Medicare is most certainly NOT fully funded and the Feds have 'borrowed' from since its beginning, or shortly thereafter if i recall. Not positive about that.

Title: Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Post by WebsterMark on 10/17/18 at 11:12:40

I don't think your analogy is sufficient.

My analogy is good, but okay, consider other finances.

I was on the committee of a non-profit once. Revenues were dropping. We worked to cut expenses everywhere, but ultimately in the end, 75% of the budget was salaries. We could only cut so much from the remaining 25%. You have to pay the light bill, you have to pay for gas, minimal building maintenance, but the only way to stay afloat was to cut from the single largest expense that could be cut. 25% cut out of 75% (or whatever the actual number was, I don’t remember)

Title: Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Post by WebsterMark on 10/17/18 at 11:19:22

but I don't think that it's fair that my intern pays the same rate as me.

I do. I don't understand the thinking why it should be anything other than that. If you want to explain it away with fairness, then I'd argue you don’t really mean that. The owner of my company is filthy rich. He literally owns an island overseas with 7 houses on it. I’m sure he’s got a crap load of lawyers who figure out a way for him to pay less in taxes than I do.
Do I care? No. He employs over 7,000 people worldwide. The economic trickle down from the cities where our manufacturing plants are located is enormous. I don’t think he owes a thing.

Title: Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Post by LostArtist on 10/17/18 at 11:46:46

0E3C3B2A2D3C2B14382B32590 wrote:

and you think the left is indoctrinated....

Title: Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Post by Serowbot on 10/17/18 at 11:51:42

It's tRump's blood from turnips plan...

Title: Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Post by LostArtist on 10/17/18 at 11:56:18

003235242332251A36253C570 wrote:

Anything's on the table, but the reality is the majority of the spending is on mandatory items like SS, Medicare etc...

Here's a point to consider. I'll be careful here because I don't want to say too much what I do because I would be easy to find, but if I break down into the various cost components of what my product has an impact on, energy cost is 70%. Four other components make up the remaining 30%. If an end user wants to address their overall cost concerns, they’ve got a choice of five components to look at. You could spend an enormous amount of time and money addressing each of the four and perhaps lower them by 5% each. Or you could lower 70% of your total cost by 20%. You lower your cost far more and the energy expended to do so is far less which maximizes your returns.
So sure, everything’s on the table but the bulk of what we spend is in a few areas.

http://https://www.pgpf.org/sites/default/files/0070_Discretionary-Breakdown-full.gif

fine, now pick your pie piece to focus your energy on to maximize the efficiency of spending cuts....

hold on, just found an article saying that chart is misleading... gimme a bit

okay, this is more accurate:

http://https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/Rv5UHrNsvcucvflDwwz_pqEjjHnbQeE_HoAgEM44mGOwutlLCyMopUBTlKW_j1krJ775qI5DGZLYlEB8z7I3mD5BllP27Iq4URRWPE-vV3hfqv4wYgLtmDm3D_Z_hAlEMc-s1yA

same question, show us oh great one, why cutting SS and Medicare is such a smarter idea than cutting defense which is way over funding considering we have the largest military in the world a few times over (meaning that it'll take 10 nations to combine to even equal ours)

Title: Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Post by WebsterMark on 10/17/18 at 12:02:28

587B67605566607D6760140 wrote:

[quote author=0E3C3B2A2D3C2B14382B32590 link=1539781929/0#14 date=1539800362] but I don't think that it's fair that my intern pays the same rate as me.

I do. I don't understand the thinking why it should be anything other than that. If you want to explain it away with fairness, then I'd argue you don’t really mean that. The owner of my company is filthy rich. He literally owns an island overseas with 7 houses on it. I’m sure he’s got a crap load of lawyers who figure out a way for him to pay less in taxes than I do.
Do I care? No. He employs over 7,000 people worldwide. The economic trickle down from the cities where our manufacturing plants are located is enormous. I don’t think he owes a thing.

and you think the left is indoctrinated....[/quote]

Does he or does he not contribute hundreds of thousands of dollars?

Title: Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Post by WebsterMark on 10/17/18 at 12:08:11

same question, show us oh great one (again, don't be a d!ic, I'm not) why cutting SS and Medicare is such a smarter idea than cutting defense I think your graph just did.

I think your graph just did. 53% is in two areas, military is 16%.

You want to talk about military cuts, I'm fine with dicussing.

By the way, i just saw Trump said he's asked each department to cut 5%.

Title: Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Post by T And T Garage on 10/17/18 at 12:44:05

50736F685D6E68756F681C0 wrote:

"Trickle" being the optimum word in your sentence.

Again, you misunderstand. In the 50's - arguably one of the best times economically in the US, the tax rate was graduated up to nearly 90%

The effective rate was nowhere near that official rate. However, businesses invested locally/regionally instead of offshoring. In effect, their "tax dodges" contributed to the country.

It's not at all the same anymore thanks to ronnie's "trickle". The way he cut taxes on the rich and corporations did exactly what economists said it'd do. Nothing... Well, nothing but triple the debt that is.

Look at it this way - The country is a giant "thing". As Americans, we all have a burden on us to move it along. Why let those who can take more of a burden, do as much (or less) as we do?

and you think the left is indoctrinated....[/quote]

~~No, I know that the left isn't - why would I say it is? (I think you misspoke)~~ Didn't know that lost put that on.

Title: Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Post by T And T Garage on 10/17/18 at 12:53:11

6A585F4E49584F705C4F563D0 wrote:

I don't think your analogy is sufficient.

My analogy is good, but okay, consider other finances.

I was on the committee of a non-profit once. Revenues were dropping.

Why were revenues dropping? That's the first thing you look at when running a business.

We worked to cut expenses everywhere, but ultimately in the end, 75% of the budget was salaries. We could only cut so much from the remaining 25%. You have to pay the light bill, you have to pay for gas, minimal building maintenance, but the only way to stay afloat was to cut from the single largest expense that could be cut. 25% cut out of 75% (or whatever the actual number was, I don’t remember)

Really? 75% was salaries? Wow. That's kind of doomed from the start.

Just like these tax cuts! Every rich person just got a raise - their salary is too high. We need to let them go (monetarily) just like you did.

Thanks for that mark - you do understand!

Title: Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Post by T And T Garage on 10/17/18 at 12:58:20

142621303726310E223128430 wrote:

The 2018 report of Medicare’s trustees finds that Medicare’s Hospital Insurance (HI) trust fund will remain solvent — that is, able to pay 100 percent of the costs of the hospital insurance coverage that Medicare provides — through 2026.

http://www.cbpp.org/research/health/medicare-is-not-bankrupt

Title: Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Post by LostArtist on 10/17/18 at 13:06:59

here's the question, what kind of world do you want?

currently, I hope I'm wrong, I assume you want a dog eat dog world, might makes right and to hell with everyone else

I'm also open to talking about changes to SS and medicare, the income limit on the SS payroll tax should be eliminated, and the retirement age should be raised to 70, we live longer these days it's fair to adjust the retirement age to reflect that.

and it should be medicare for all, yes, taxes would go up, but compared to how much you and companies are paying for monthly premiums, on average I bet it'd be a lot less and you get a better marketplace, currently, it's hard as heck to search to find which healthcare service is the best value, why does an MRI cost $20,000 in NYC and $1000 in small town Iowa (figures are made up to make a point, idk what the real discrepancy is, but the discrepancy is real) promoting preventative care is much cheaper than the ER later, so now, because of Freedom of information, you'll actually be able to see how much something costs before you get it done

and as for a flat tax... maybe, but you'd have to find a way to make sure that poor people aren't being punished (aka, their taxes going up) just cause you feel like life isn't treating you fairly.

Title: Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Post by WebsterMark on 10/17/18 at 13:17:59

"Trickle" being the optimum word in your sentence.

Again, you misunderstand. In the 50's - arguably one of the best times economically in the US, the tax rate was graduated up to nearly 90%

The effective rate was nowhere near that official rate. However, businesses invested locally/regionally instead of offshoring. In effect, their "tax dodges" contributed to the country.

It's not at all the same anymore thanks to ronnie's "trickle". The way he cut taxes on the rich and corporations did exactly what economists said it'd do. Nothing... Well, nothing but triple the debt that is.

Arguably is an understatement.
There a million differences between 1950's and now, but I don't think very many of them have to do with the tax rate. Sounds like that movie 'Pleasantville'. And you can't blame everything on Ronnie's trickle down.
We spend to much money. Period. Full Stop. Too much money.

Look at it this way - The country is a giant "thing". As Americans, we all have a burden on us to move it along. Why let those who can take more of a burden, do as much (or less) as we do?
They are, they do more than you or I. Why do we have claim to their money because they have more of it. There's a minimum contribution rate for all of us, that's fair, but more than that? Nope.

Title: Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Post by WebsterMark on 10/17/18 at 13:20:14

currently, I hope I'm wrong, I assume you want a dog eat dog world, might makes right and to hell with everyone else

Yea, you're not even close.

Title: Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Post by WebsterMark on 10/17/18 at 13:27:56

Title: Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Post by LostArtist on 10/17/18 at 16:17:20

447671606776615E726178130 wrote:

currently, I hope I'm wrong, I assume you want a dog eat dog world, might makes right and to hell with everyone else

Yea, you're not even close.

then prove it. start talking like you care about others instead of just money

Title: Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Post by LostArtist on 10/17/18 at 16:24:37

093B3C2D2A3B2C133F2C355E0 wrote:

I like what Trump's doing right now. Every major economic measuring tool is moving forward. Our business is up. Our management reports their talks with major customers are positive. We expanded a plant because of expected demand and the demand was here quicker than we thought, which is a good thing. You might not want to hear it, but business is more comfortable with Trump as President. Sure there are segments that are not, but far more are than aren't. And that's the bottom line.

I believe that, the problem is, the sectors that are doing well under Trump, weren't really doing that bad under Obama, they are just skittish and know they can buy congress and elections to get the tax cuts and deregulation they want at OUR expense. Also, business owners are mostly republican and conservative, so now that they have "their guy" in, they feel good, and that's what it's all about, appeasing the owners.

I said before, I don't have to like Trump. I wouldn't point to him as a role model for children. We needed someone different, someone to break the cycle and he's the one who answered the call. Hilary or Bernie would have been a diaster on so many different levels.

But, I've said this before too, I worked for a guy just like Trump and a guy just like Obama. Both were successful. One I'd want for a neighbor, the other not so much.

Title: Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Post by MnSpring on 10/18/18 at 07:39:27

73504C4B7E4D4B564C4B3F0 wrote:

then prove it. start talking like you care about others instead of just money

Would you want that to happen, after, You said:
“… you're just supposed to believe them, they are white guys after all, just believe them..."

Or do you want, proof, of WM caring, before you said:
“… you're just supposed to believe them, they are white guys after all, just believe them..."

Title: Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Post by T And T Garage on 10/18/18 at 08:12:06

594748494459425F2D0 wrote:

[quote author=142621303726310E223128430 link=1539781929/0#12 date=1539799495]How do you not know that SS and Medicare are fully funded? There is no reason to touch them.

Medicare is most certainly NOT fully funded and the Feds have 'borrowed' from since its beginning, or shortly thereafter if i recall. Not positive about that.

Title: Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Post by raydawg on 10/18/18 at 09:07:45

Just in case we forgot.......

Government spending far outweighs, government revenues by a difference of nine percentage points in favor of spending, according to a CBO infographic . The graphic also shows that individual’s debt has grown especially large in recent years; debt held by the public accounted for 67 percent of U.S. GDP in 2011, the highest level in four decades.

Here is a nice graphic.....

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm288/eddy-haskell/US-FEDERAL-BUDGET_zpsijokqhoa.jpg (http://s299.photobucket.com/user/eddy-haskell/media/US-FEDERAL-BUDGET_zpsijokqhoa.jpg.html)

I call your attention once again, to the year 2011......

Who was president, and what programs were driving this increase in our deficit?

Remember when presidents asked for a line item veto?
Remember bridges to nowhere, tacked on to bills?
How about a balanced budget initiative?

Indeed, it is a problem, not as big when the economy is thriving, but when it slows, and it always will, it becomes a huge problem....

When it does, the only winners are the very wealthy.
The chasm widens greatly, separating the "classes" even further, dividing us into the "haves, and have-nots"
Creating a toxic enviroment that breeds contempt, and lots of other negative connotations.

Its no difference than your own personal credit management.

You want to keep "covering" expenses, to anybody who shows up in our country unfettered, well.....
Try going into a bar tonight, give the bartender your credit card.
Let him announce," ALL DRINKS ARE FREE TONIGHT...... "
Lets see what that does to your budget.

You can make certain your debt is manageable, do NOT rely on the idiots in Washington, who created this mess.
But again, unless you are very well off, make that extremely well off, you have exposure to financial ruin, in this acceptable method of governing, with a deficit mentality EVERYONE in Washington employs.

Use it as a wedge, stamp your forehead, "Just another sheeple"

Title: Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Post by WebsterMark on 10/18/18 at 09:09:21

A significant portion of Medicare is funded from general revenues. It's not all fully funded. How do you not know that?

Title: Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Post by T And T Garage on 10/18/18 at 09:57:41

11021A07021404630 wrote:

So, how was it doing in 2015 and 2016?

How is it today?

I know for a fact that time has indeed past since 2011.... :D

Title: Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Post by T And T Garage on 10/18/18 at 09:59:42

1B292E3F38293E012D3E274C0 wrote:

A significant portion of Medicare is funded from general revenues. It's not all fully funded. How do you not know that?

LOL, huh? This is your quote:
"Medicare is most certainly NOT fully funded "

So, it is.

Thanks.

Title: Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Post by raydawg on 10/18/18 at 10:15:10

2C323D3C312C372A580 wrote:

[quote author=11021A07021404630 link=1539781929/30#31 date=1539878865]Just in case we forgot.......

Government spending far outweighs, government revenues by a difference of nine percentage points in favor of spending, according to a CBO infographic . The graphic also shows that individual’s debt has grown especially large in recent years; debt held by the public accounted for 67 percent of U.S. GDP in 2011, the highest level in four decades.

Here is a nice graphic.....

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm288/eddy-haskell/US-FEDERAL-BUDGET_zpsijokqhoa.jpg (http://s299.photobucket.com/user/eddy-haskell/media/US-FEDERAL-BUDGET_zpsijokqhoa.jpg.html)

I call your attention once again, to the year 2011......

Who was president, and what programs were driving this increase in our deficit?

Remember when presidents asked for a line item veto?
Remember bridges to nowhere, tacked on to bills?
How about a balanced budget initiative?

Indeed, it is a problem, not as big when the economy is thriving, but when it slows, and it always will, it becomes a huge problem....

When it does, the only winners are the very wealthy.
The chasm widens greatly, separating the "classes" even further, dividing us into the "haves, and have-nots"
Creating a toxic enviroment that breeds contempt, and lots of other negative connotations.

Its no difference than your own personal credit management.

You want to keep "covering" expenses, to anybody who shows up in our country unfettered, well.....
Try going into a bar tonight, give the bartender your credit card.
Let him announce," ALL DRINKS ARE FREE TONIGHT...... "
Lets see what that does to your budget.

You can make certain your debt is manageable, do NOT rely on the idiots in Washington, who created this mess.
But again, unless you are very well off, make that extremely well off, you have exposure to financial ruin, in this acceptable method of governing, with a deficit mentality EVERYONE in Washington employs.

Use it as a wedge, stamp your forehead, "Just another sheeple"

So, how was it doing in 2015 and 2016?

How is it today?

I know for a fact that time has indeed past since 2011.... :D
[/quote]

You wanna borrow my stamp?

Title: Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Post by WebsterMark on 10/18/18 at 10:20:41

7E606F6E637E65780A0 wrote:

[quote author=1B292E3F38293E012D3E274C0 link=1539781929/30#32 date=1539878961]A significant portion of Medicare is funded from general revenues. It's not all fully funded. How do you not know that?

Title: Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Post by T And T Garage on 10/18/18 at 10:23:10

5A49514C495F4F280 wrote:

You wanna borrow my stamp?

No - I don't even know what that means.

But I would like to find out if you know what happened after 2011 and into 2016? Did the deficit shrink?

Today, has the debt held by individuals dropped over 2011? Has the deficit gone up from 2016?

Simple questions. Simple answers.

Title: Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Post by T And T Garage on 10/18/18 at 10:25:24

754740515647506F435049220 wrote:

[quote author=7E606F6E637E65780A0 link=1539781929/30#34 date=1539881982][quote author=1B292E3F38293E012D3E274C0 link=1539781929/30#32 date=1539878961]A significant portion of Medicare is funded from general revenues. It's not all fully funded. How do you not know that?

LOL, huh? This is your quote:
"Medicare is most certainly NOT fully funded "

So, it is.

Thanks.[/quote]

By your definition, everything is fully funded.....

Medicare, all parts, do not take in enough from specific taxes to cover all the expenses. The balance is paid in part through funds from the general revenue just like any other governement expense. [/quote]

I'll just put this back here for reference.

The 2018 report of Medicare’s trustees finds that Medicare’s Hospital Insurance (HI) trust fund will remain solvent — that is, able to pay 100 percent of the costs of the hospital insurance coverage that Medicare provides — through 2026.

http://www.cbpp.org/research/health/medicare-is-not-bankrupt

Title: Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Post by WebsterMark on 10/18/18 at 10:50:51

You're only talking about Part A of Medicare. You know there are other parts right? When looked at as a whole, almost half of Medicare is funded through the general fund. Part A is fully funded through dedicated funds. Parts B and D are not.

So, if the federal government is running a deficit, which is and has been for a long time, it’s disingenuous to use the phrase Medicare is fully funded.

Title: Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Post by T And T Garage on 10/18/18 at 14:40:18

6B595E4F48594E715D4E573C0 wrote:

You're right mark... I should include Social Security on that as well. it's also fully funded.

Thanks.

Title: Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Post by Eegore on 10/19/18 at 07:02:53

Its fully funded but not projected to be fully funded, so that's an issue maybe.

Title: Re: Deficits Don't Matter... Right?
Post by WebsterMark on 10/19/18 at 07:19:01

Not true Eegore. In the context of our deficit conversion, fully funded meant dedicated taxes to cover the expenses, meaning the programs are funded outside of general tax revenues which medicare is not.

Question: If you had an income of $1000 a month and your car and house payments equaled $1500 so you borrowed $500 a month on a credit card, would you label your finances as fully funded?