raydawg wrote on 08/06/17 at 13:57:59:If you can answer how the ice age was melted by warming, based on these facts you presently attribute to global warming, I will listen.
I'm not sure why people keep debating about global warming through the lense of "the ice age"; a time before recorded history. You can provide all the permafrost and soil records you want and the anti-intellectual movement will never budge on their denial.
There are much better historical examples that are documented and recorded of relatively rapid climate change destroying civilizations.
First of all, the phenomena of the United States rapidly becoming a world superpower isn't because we have some secret-sauce of gumption. Our ancestors landed on one of the most resource-rich and completely untapped stretches of land in the world. Full stop. Empires throughout human history follow this pattern.
Irrigation and farming tech meeting a favorable climate period in something known as the Piora Oscillation allowed some of the first recorded governments and civilizations to build trade routes and small nation-states near the Tigris and Euphrates. Climate shifted back towards more unfavorable conditions for a few hundred years and this civilization mostly fell and migrated.
Pre-crusades much of the middle-east was fertile, wetter and more mediterranean. It's no wonder they were more successful scientifically and Militarily than their European counterparts for so long. Hell, the Moors held much of Spain for a little over 700 years. Then north Africa got drier. Instead of pursuing higher endeavors, people struggled to feed themselves, which predictably made the region more violent, less successful and all-together the less-habitable place we know today.
There are many more examples of this if you care to google historical examples of climate change.
My point is, the argument we're having about climate change is flawed, in that, it's not an all-out apocalypse vs. a bald-faced lie. There's no real discussion there. When someone attacks you, you attack them back...
The climate is changing, much quicker than has ever been recorded historically or prehistorically and it's in our best interest to do something about it because the material advantages we owe much if not most of our success to are at risk. Solar alone is creating much more jobs than gas and oil is and will continue to do so, so I really don't see a downside to mobilizing a massive change in how we generate and utilize power. People need jobs. People need power, and at least half the population believes we need to reduce our carbon footprint... So committ!
And having ridden a Zero and being a passenger in a Tesla, I'm not worried about my beloved time on the road. Electric vehicles are AWESOME. They're saying solid state batteries will roll out in a few years and give an electric motorcycle a 1000 mile range. Grain of salt, for sure, but if so screw internal combustion.
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