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Is politics local? (Read 257 times)
raydawg
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Is politics local?
08/04/17 at 12:23:10
 
If that is true, then the democrats could hardly afford to lose a governor, like they did yesterday to the republicans.
Saw him at a Trump stump yesterday, goodness.

Also saw Trump call the Russian investigation fake news....
Uh, no it's not.
It's a real story Donnie, call it what you may, what comes of it still needs to be determined, but geez, don't play word games you fault others of doing....
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“The biggest big business in America is not steel, automobiles, or television. It is the manufacture, refinement and distribution of anxiety.”—Eric Sevareid (1964)
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Re: Is politics local?
Reply #1 - 08/04/17 at 18:16:17
 
The divide is mostly along the lines of population density. If you look at the emerging megaregions of the country, they're very blue, while almost everywhere else is very red.

If you have a couple million neighbors then public transit, stronger gun laws and acceptance for the differing people you see every day makes a lot of sense.

If they cops don't come out to your property for three hours after you make a call, your rifle is a tool more than a weapon and your church is the place where you socialize then government doesn't mean very much to you except those people who take your money.

The truth is that state boundaries and the electoral makeup isn't really representative of what's happening with our demographics anymore.

Both sides have a lot of good ideas that make sense for their respective bubbles, but we move very far left and right of center because we live in an age where your views and prejudices can echo inside your internet community.
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raydawg
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Re: Is politics local?
Reply #2 - 08/04/17 at 19:15:12
 
Interesting...... Embarrassed
Thanks  Smiley
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Is politics local?
Reply #3 - 08/04/17 at 19:38:25
 
Stronger gun laws

When those restrictions are removed, the crime drops.
Chicago shows us that the gun laws are ignored by the criminals, because they are killing each other.

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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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Re: Is politics local?
Reply #4 - 08/04/17 at 21:32:37
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 08/04/17 at 19:38:25:
Stronger gun laws

When those restrictions are removed, the crime drops.
Chicago shows us that the gun laws are ignored by the criminals, because they are killing each other.



What I would like to see, a gun law advocate politician, or celebrity,
answer the question of: "Why are you allowed to carry, or have bodyguards with weapons to protect you. Is that because you believe your life is more valuable than mine?"
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“The biggest big business in America is not steel, automobiles, or television. It is the manufacture, refinement and distribution of anxiety.”—Eric Sevareid (1964)
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Re: Is politics local?
Reply #5 - 08/04/17 at 21:37:14
 
Neither side has any real data on Chicago's newish laws because there is no way to control for it when anybody wanting a firearm can bypass the stricter laws by simply driving a few miles out of town. Hell, I drive past plenty of places that sell firearms to get to my preferred store. On top of that, they haven't been on the books long enough to really change the city culturally.

The whole idea of people screaming simple things like more or less gun laws at each other is pretty silly, I mean, there aren't a lot of responsible gun-owning people I know who think picking up a firearm should have no strings attached, especially when there is a lot of positive data on waiting periods and background checks. So it's demonstrably ridiculous to say that less=better.

The left isn't immune either. Going after assault rifles, when the vast majority of gun violence occurs via pistols owned legitimately.

So any time you're getting ready to put your camp's flag up on some internet post, maybe think hard about making a point that actually goes somewhere. More or less government/gun laws/regulation doesn't really mean anything...
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Is politics local?
Reply #6 - 08/05/17 at 03:00:17
 
Actually, it does.
I'm 62 and I Watched what happened in 73, when car jacking became a fad. Louisiana was just on the news daily.
Finally, the governor came out and said
People, arm yourselves.
And in a few days the reports of gutshot punks, bleeding and flopping around and screaming in agony in the streets were making the rounds. In a coupla weeks, the fad was done.
And the year escapes me, but Florida was seeing the tourist market in trouble because of robbers. The rental car companies scraped off their stickers, told tourists to not Look like tourists, hide camera and binoculars, maps, etc.
But, the problem persisted,
Until Florida started allowing them to be armed.

The people who are willing to KILL  really don't care about rules. Allowing the Law Abiding citizens to protect themselves is reasonable.


Ohhh, Ohhh, some people shouldn't Have guns..

Yeah, I know.
That's who has them Now..
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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Re: Is politics local?
Reply #7 - 08/05/17 at 04:13:35
 
You really need some data to back up your controversial anecdotes.

For example, UCR reports are very easy to look up. If your assertion about Louisiana were true we would see a reduction in theft and probably a reduction in indexed crime. Well, here's a link to the direct statistics:

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/lacrime.htm

And what we see is literally the exact opposite trend. Starting in 1973 crime takes a drastic upswing and goes up until 1999...

What you experienced was a very common thing where you and probably your friends and family heard something that sounded intrinsically right so your brain logged information that fit the narrative you agreed with. You and your circle reinforced this narrative to each other until you all believed it was obvious and observable despite the measured fact that crime actually increased by quite a bit the very same year.

We all do this. I'm not calling you bad or stupid. But if you were experiencing what you perceived as a positive effect from the governor telling people to arm themselves despite the fact that crime actually got worse for the next 25 years, is it not possible that you should re-examine this belief you seem to have that a more armed populace = better?

I'm a gun owner myself, but the situation of gun-ownership in our country is not a more or less issue. Almost everyone arguing over this stuff doesn't know what he's talking about. Doesn't mean we can't get educated enough to have a valid opinion on the subject, but why bother having a strong opinion on something you don't actually know anything about?

Listen, read, learn and bring some real points to the table instead of just saying your side is obviously better.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Is politics local?
Reply #8 - 08/05/17 at 05:03:37
 
I didn't just Hear it. It was on the news, daily.
And your logical fallacy that IF that was true THEN society would be X, is bull.
I Watched it happen.
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raydawg
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Re: Is politics local?
Reply #9 - 08/05/17 at 10:52:47
 
Listen, read, learn and bring some real points to the table instead of just saying your side is obviously better.

I understand your remark, and I try to always challenge my beliefs.....
Mostly, not always, it strengthens them, for it makes me view them critically.
I don't readily adopt ideology to be a member of herd. It has to fit in my life, and produce results that give me a sustainable positive effect.

That being said, once extended to the "table" it has the propensity to become a paradox.
A lot of forces try and capitalize on this natural phenomenon of mankind, unless we internally realize that freewill (thought and expression) is useless, if not understood, and extended, to others, as well.

If we can do this, then it becomes a tool to garner wisdom of self, that will further allow a person to grow into a healthy source of example, that will exhibit a strength that counters those forces who try to use others, to empower themselves....

Me, personally, I "try" to live within 4 agreements, I make to myself.
It is like going on a journey, using this as a map, I have never trekked before....
And I haven't, as each new day, is a new journey, if we don't tether our self to yesterday.

1. Don't make assumptions.
2. Don't take things personal.
3. Be impeccable with speech.
4. Always do my best.

When I stay within this framework, the day reveals many blessings, and I avoid the trappings of false truths, and self tripping.
I find life is naturally sustainable, joy, and thanksgiving, being the effect, and reward.
When I am in that natural state, giving becomes my nature, freely, without expectations, of others.

If any one would like me to expand on how these 4 agreements work, just ask, and I will further explain.

Anybody up for some group therapy?  Grin    
     
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“The biggest big business in America is not steel, automobiles, or television. It is the manufacture, refinement and distribution of anxiety.”—Eric Sevareid (1964)
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Re: Is politics local?
Reply #10 - 08/05/17 at 14:23:50
 
LockeClone wrote on 08/04/17 at 21:37:14:
Neither side has any real data on Chicago's newish laws because there is no way to control for it when anybody wanting a firearm can bypass the stricter laws by simply driving a few miles out of town. Hell, I drive past plenty of places that sell firearms to get to my preferred store. On top of that, they haven't been on the books long enough to really change the city culturally.

The whole idea of people screaming simple things like more or less gun laws at each other is pretty silly, I mean, there aren't a lot of responsible gun-owning people I know who think picking up a firearm should have no strings attached, especially when there is a lot of positive data on waiting periods and background checks. So it's demonstrably ridiculous to say that less=better.

The left isn't immune either. Going after assault rifles, when the vast majority of gun violence occurs via pistols owned legitimately.

So any time you're getting ready to put your camp's flag up on some internet post, maybe think hard about making a point that actually goes somewhere. More or less government/gun laws/regulation doesn't really mean anything...



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Re: Is politics local?
Reply #11 - 08/05/17 at 14:24:48
 
LockeClone wrote on 08/05/17 at 04:13:35:
You really need some data to back up your controversial anecdotes.

For example, UCR reports are very easy to look up. If your assertion about Louisiana were true we would see a reduction in theft and probably a reduction in indexed crime. Well, here's a link to the direct statistics:

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/lacrime.htm

And what we see is literally the exact opposite trend. Starting in 1973 crime takes a drastic upswing and goes up until 1999...

What you experienced was a very common thing where you and probably your friends and family heard something that sounded intrinsically right so your brain logged information that fit the narrative you agreed with. You and your circle reinforced this narrative to each other until you all believed it was obvious and observable despite the measured fact that crime actually increased by quite a bit the very same year.

We all do this. I'm not calling you bad or stupid. But if you were experiencing what you perceived as a positive effect from the governor telling people to arm themselves despite the fact that crime actually got worse for the next 25 years, is it not possible that you should re-examine this belief you seem to have that a more armed populace = better?

I'm a gun owner myself, but the situation of gun-ownership in our country is not a more or less issue. Almost everyone arguing over this stuff doesn't know what he's talking about. Doesn't mean we can't get educated enough to have a valid opinion on the subject, but why bother having a strong opinion on something you don't actually know anything about?

Listen, read, learn and bring some real points to the table instead of just saying your side is obviously better.



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Re: Is politics local?
Reply #12 - 08/05/17 at 15:26:52
 
But you didn't watch it happen justin, you only think you did because of predictable phenomena like confirmation bias.

The German populace believed they were winning the war until they started hearing allied guns outside their windows. But the news told them they were winning! They saw the industrial might and prosperity with their own eyes that the war effort had wrought!

Hillary supporters couldn't believe it when she lost. The news told them she was going to win handedly. Uncle crazy-pants is a Trump supporter but all their friends and families were either voting Hillary or not voting, so she was obviously going to win.

When you watched the news and looked around your, probably affluent, circle you saw things getting better after the governor's announcement. I bet, because of the published crime records, others in your community were having a very different experience. I live in a city that did great through the recession... Doesn't mean the recession didn't happen and isn't still happening to other parts of our community.

When he said "arm yourselves" you had a positive reaction. Humans confirm their bias at over ten times the rate they process negative input.

If my governor said "arm yourselves" my first thought is "oh nuts, he just declared open season on brothers." Thus I'm more likely to view the ensuing events through a lense bias towards that viewpoint by a factor of 10, just like you. I

The truth is usually somewhere in between so we look to demonstrable touchstones like statistics to calibrate what is really happening. In this case it was pretty easy to find a set of very solid and trustworthy crime statistics  that show your assertion to be very flawed.

You came back by saying "No, but I saw it" which, I'm sure works fine in your circle of link-minded people, but the fact that that's all you came up with for a believe you feel passionate about shows a pretty steep bias.

And all this doesn't even mean you're wrong! I'm challenging you to use your brain. If you're going to vote on and propagate beliefs that kill or save thousands of Americans every year, you should probably know your stuff or abstain from checking that box. I abstain from several things every ballot I get because of my ignorance. There's no shame in it.

Acknowledgement of ignorance is a gift because it means you can either learn more about something, or forget about it and worry about other things.  

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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Is politics local?
Reply #13 - 08/05/17 at 15:28:45
 
That's Rich.
Mr. Drive by says
Bring points to the table.
But dodges points that are just too Tuff.
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Re: Is politics local?
Reply #14 - 08/05/17 at 15:46:14
 
Who's Mr. Drive by? Am I Mr. Drive by?...

And which point do you feel I've dodged? Your point was "That you saw it", which I addressed with crime statistics followed by a virtual novella on confirmation bias.

If that's not thoroughly addressing you and your point, compared to you asserting that you saw it in a couple sentences with no supporting evidence then calling me "Mr. Drive By", I think you might just be afraid and that makes you angry.

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