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Engine seems to stop at TDC when turned manually (Read 357 times)
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Engine seems to stop at TDC when turned manually
06/21/17 at 12:34:42
 
Hey Y'all, long time lurker here with a 95 LS650 that won't even crank. I've had it for around 5 years and it's been sitting for the last couple years. I put it in the garage after I was riding one day, heard a loud metal clang, and lost power and the back tire started to skid. Luckily, I pulled the clutch in and was able to pull over. It wouldn't even turn over on the side of the road. Just a loud metal noise which I've determined since is the decomp solenoid lever thing. I put it away without doing anything and let it sit until now. I know I know, but I was a terrible 21 year old. Now I'm a terrible 24 year old wannabe mechanic and would like to fix it.

Fast forward to now: I've tested the obvious, the battery, solenoid, and starter motor are all good. I thought it might be a seized piston from oil starvation (again, terrible 21 year old), but I pulled the spark plug and the left side cover off (timing inspection cover is SUPER stuck) and am able to turn the engine with the crankshaft bolt while in 5th. BUT I'm not able to turn it past what seems like TDC. Can't tell without getting the inspection cover off for sure, but the piston appears to be at TDC or close to the top. I have the back end on a stand so I can move the wheel. I haven't popped the right side cover off yet to check out the chain/tensioner but that's on my list of things to do in the next couple days.

Anyone have any theories or run into this before?
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« Last Edit: 06/21/17 at 14:31:39 by robb+ »  
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Re: Engine seems to stop at TDC when turned manual
Reply #1 - 06/21/17 at 14:02:47
 
Since you taken the big step...
Take the exhaust header off and inspect the valves.
They should be straight.
Next remove the clutch cover and inspect the cam chain.
If you're not crying in your beer, report back.
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Re: Engine seems to stop at TDC when turned manual
Reply #2 - 06/21/17 at 14:14:08
 
Word...
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Re: Engine seems to stop at TDC when turned manual
Reply #3 - 06/23/17 at 07:48:23
 
Sorry for taking so long to reply! I got the exhaust header and clutch cover off last night. The tensioner is definitely like 20mm out so that's on my list to replace. I plan to take a closer look at the valves tonight and report back. Thanks!
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Re: Engine seems to stop at TDC when turned manual
Reply #4 - 06/23/17 at 08:12:41
 
Good to hear that tensioner hasn't puked.
I was afraid you were unable to reply because of the tears.
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Re: Engine seems to stop at TDC when turned manual
Reply #5 - 06/23/17 at 10:51:34
 
*Cue the waterworks* I went home for lunch today and peaked inside the exhaust port and there I saw a busted valve stem. The one on the right side looking at the port. I guess I'm going to have to tear it down huh?  :'(
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Re: Engine seems to stop at TDC when turned manual
Reply #6 - 06/23/17 at 11:59:30
 
So sorry to hear that.

Cardboard with the outline of the head cover.
A slot for each bolt.
Know how many bolts you Will remove.
Except for one about center of the cover, they all come out.
You don't want to leave one and start trying to get it off.
Yeah, don't ask..
Careful disassembly and Pre Locating the bits and pieces makes assembly less troublesome.
The tank will need an elevated and safe place to sit.
Prepare that before your hands are full of tank you can't sit down.
Yeah, don't Ask, awrite?
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Re: Engine seems to stop at TDC when turned manual
Reply #7 - 06/23/17 at 12:11:43
 
Oh I've got the tank taken off already! If the broken part of the valve is sitting on the piston, won't I have to take off the whole head?
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Re: Engine seems to stop at TDC when turned manual
Reply #8 - 06/23/17 at 14:44:26
 
Yes,you'll want to see how much damage was done to the head ,piston,valves and cylinder wall,and if they can be reworked and saved
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Re: Engine seems to stop at TDC when turned manual
Reply #9 - 06/23/17 at 19:59:39
 
You're gonna hafta get the cam out.
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Re: Engine seems to stop at TDC when turned manual
Reply #10 - 07/29/21 at 12:27:32
 
Oh boy, guys. It's been a long time, and I'm sorry to resurrect such an old thread. It only took getting a house, an engagement, a baby, and two whole funk albums written before I finally had the time and patience to dig into this pig.

The cylinder head and piston are trashed. Who knows what happened to the piece that blew threw the piston.  Shocked

Do I even bother rebuilding with new parts, or should I just buy a new engine from the bay for $800 (which is upsetting because I bought the bike for 900 lol)? Doing a cursory search, I can't even find a cylinder head replacement from any major parts dealer.

Here's the damage:
https://imgur.com/a/hIVKiVj
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Re: Engine seems to stop at TDC when turned manual
Reply #11 - 07/29/21 at 15:16:03
 
Here is your cylinder head:

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1623503159

I have a couple of stock pistons......but you really should get a new Wiseco from Lancer.
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Re: Engine seems to stop at TDC when turned manual
Reply #12 - 07/29/21 at 18:28:13
 
My man! I'm way into it. Please shoot me a PM about the head. Thanks Dave.

What's the stock piston cost out of curiosity?  And what's the benefits to the Wiseco over the stock?

Lastly, any idea on how to flush the crank case? I'm almost positive I've got some metal bits from the either the valve or the piston the went through there.
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Re: Engine seems to stop at TDC when turned manual
Reply #13 - 07/30/21 at 04:07:40
 
I will send you a PM about the head.

The Wiseco is a forged piston (stock is cast).  There are two models of Wiseco available ....and a few different sizes.  If your cylinder is not damaged then a 94mm piston is available - if you need to bore the cylinder then you can get larger pistons in 95mm, 96mm or 97mm.  Most go with the 97mm to get the most bang for the buck.

Originally the only Wiseco that would fit was made for the DR650 - but it would work in the Savage.  The piston offered an improvement in compression and you need to run Premium fuel.  These pistons work well and I have been running a 95mm in my engine for 15,000 miles......there have been a lot of these pistons used in the Savage engine and I have only heard two failures - both of them were from the cylinder being bored improperly (one was too tight and one was too loose).  These pistons provide better performance than the stock piston.

Recently Lancer has begun to have some custom pistons made for the Savage that have an improved design for use specifically in the Savage.  They are flat top pistons and have an improved quench area.  So far I believe DragBikeMike is the only one who has installed these new design pistons and he has had very good results.  The new design provides a bit more power, better fuel economy and runs cooler than the other Wiseco or the stock piston.....premium fuel is required.

I can send you a stock piston for free - it is used and you would need to buy a new set of rings.....for a few dollars more than the cost of the rings you could buy a new Wiseco that includes rings.

Flushing out the bottom end can be done by taking off both side cases and rinsing out the crankcase with kerosene, diesel fuel, mineral spirits or parts cleaner.  If you can get the engine into a parts cleaner with a pump that would be the best as the pump allows you to wash and flush better.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1436923466/15

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1603308664

Lastly......I do have some 5 speed bottom ends that are not damaged and could be used to build up a new engine.  If it turns out your bottom end is not salvageable you could get one of these engines pretty cheaply - we would have to figure out how to get it to you.  I am not anxious to try and ship a compete bottom end - I have stripped and engine down to the basic bottom and and I believe it fit into a Large Flat Rate box when the cylinder studs were removed.  I do have an engine with the stock cylinder and piston still attached.
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Muskegon, Michigan
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Re: Engine seems to stop at TDC when turned manual
Reply #14 - 08/10/21 at 08:00:29
 
Just a quick update:
I got a new head/cover and piston from Dave, and the Versy head plug. Positively identified some valve pieces in the crank case, got that pulled apart, and everything has been removed. Nothing looks damaged in the gears, so it's time to slap her back together.

Shrapnel that was removed: https://imgur.com/a/9E9e7WX

I'll post another update once it's going again (or if I need help haha).
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