Donate!
Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register :: View Members
Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print
Engine seems to stop at TDC when turned manually (Read 446 times)
DragBikeMike
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 4166
Honolulu
Re: Engine seems to stop at TDC when turned manual
Reply #15 - 08/10/21 at 14:30:22
 
Very interesting chunks Rob.  Are they magnetic?
Back to top
 
 

Knowledge is power.
  IP Logged
robb+
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline



Posts: 36
Muskegon, Michigan
Gender: male
Re: Engine seems to stop at TDC when turned manual
Reply #16 - 08/13/21 at 08:04:27
 
Nope, not magnetic. Kinda looks like valve stem and head to me.

Ended up finding a couple more chunks and got the whole case cleaned up good. It's been sealed and torqued back up, and now I just wait for all of my gaskets and parts that I broke to arrive (namely the clutch pressure disk).

The carb is already cleaned and rebuilt, so I guess it's time to keep wiping down the rest of it.  Cheesy
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
robb+
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline



Posts: 36
Muskegon, Michigan
Gender: male
Re: Engine seems to stop at TDC when turned manual
Reply #17 - 08/31/21 at 05:52:58
 
Aaaaaalright, I have the engine put back together and in the frame, but she isn't starting.

Things I've Tried/Verified:
I tested the new sparkplug while grounded to the cylinder head, and that works.
Fuel is going to the float bowl.
My battery is fully charged (I put it back onto the trickle charger after a few tries).
The valve clearances are all set to 0.004in.
I wasn't able to do a compression test yet because I couldn't find a 12mm adapter. A mechanic friend has one but can't come through until later this week.
It didn't start with starter fluid straight into the airbox.

The only thing I can think of (besides maybe I didn't get the timing right?!) is the automatic decomp lever. At first the starter would try once then stop. I believe I overcorrected, and I think the starter was trying too many times while the lever was staying open. I tried to set it so it would come back to where the exhaust valve would close, but I think I'm not setting it correctly. I tried setting it to the 3-5mm that the manual says, but I think the additional compression from the Wiseco piston is fighting the starter? Any tips for setting that would be very appreciated.

Any thoughts?
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
oldNslow
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 2679
Rochester, NY
Gender: male
Re: Engine seems to stop at TDC when turned manual
Reply #18 - 08/31/21 at 06:55:36
 
When you get to do the compression test that will tell you if the cam is off and the valve timing is not ok, but in the meantime try jumping the bike with a car battery and see what happens. Don't have the car running though.

How long will the bike battery crank the bike before it poops out ? A weak battery will crank the bike engine for a short while but wont fire the plug when the plug is in the head.

Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
robb+
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline



Posts: 36
Muskegon, Michigan
Gender: male
Re: Engine seems to stop at TDC when turned manual
Reply #19 - 08/31/21 at 09:19:38
 
It will crank forever with no plug in, but it cranks muuuch slower with the plug in. I don't want to fry the starter, but it gets significantly more tired after a few tries.

Shined a light into the plug hole at TDC and the top of the piston is brownish, so seems promising for a spark/fuel.

Lol my jumper cables aren't long enough to try with a car (tall ass 4runner), so I'll try that once I'm able. The battery is reading above 13v off the charger, but my multimeter doesn't have clips so I need a third hand to test under load.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
robb+
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline



Posts: 36
Muskegon, Michigan
Gender: male
Re: Engine seems to stop at TDC when turned manual
Reply #20 - 09/01/21 at 06:47:22
 
Ok, so I definitely did not have the valve clearance set right the first time. I kept wondering about this freeplay I should be feeling in the rocker arms that wasn't there, and I ended up loosening the adjuster screws real far on the intake side and did find I could jiggle it. After a little research on the forum, I found one of the valve clearance adjustment threads, and got it with the correct amount of jiggle this time.

I put the covers back on and did a compression test (turns out Oreilly's has a set of adapters Cheesy ). I got it to read 100psi a couple of times with the throttle wide open. I know you're supposed to do this on a warm engine, but obviously I can't. Is that enough to get it started?

It's still cranking over like an old dog though. Going to take it to an auto place to load test it today or tomorrow. All tests were done with a fully charged and full battery.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
oldNslow
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 2679
Rochester, NY
Gender: male
Re: Engine seems to stop at TDC when turned manual
Reply #21 - 09/01/21 at 07:29:58
 
100psi is pretty low. Should be close to 150 or more I think. That may not let it start.

And , if "cranking over like an old dog"  means it's spinning slow with the
sparkplug, or the compression gauge, screwed into the head, and you are confident that you've now got the valves adjusted correctly , I still suspect it's a weak battery. Not being able to crank the engine and fire the plug at the same time with a weak battery is a very common and well known issue with these bikes.

Can't you pull the battery out of your truck temporarily, and use it try a jump so that your cables will reach from the battery to the bike?

Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
robb+
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline



Posts: 36
Muskegon, Michigan
Gender: male
Re: Engine seems to stop at TDC when turned manual
Reply #22 - 09/01/21 at 07:47:42
 
It should be between 140-200 according to the Clymer manual, but I'm also trying to consider that the engine is cold and not broken in.

That's definitely what it means. Cranks super slow with the sparkplug or compression tester in, maybe 3/4 of a second per crank. Spins seemingly normal with no sparkplug in.

Full disclosure: the battery did tip over on my way home from picking it up. I bought more acid and refilled it to the top line, but maybe I didn't do it right?

Yeah, I'll pull the truck battery out and try that. I just hate having both vehicles inoperable at the same time when there's a child to haul around haha. I'll report back later in the week.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
justin_o_guy2
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

What happened?

Posts: 55279
East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.
Re: Engine seems to stop at TDC when turned manual
Reply #23 - 09/01/21 at 07:50:18
 
If I've been in an engine ,trying to get it to fire up, I'm not going to beat up my battery and starter. You can use wd40,unless it's changed it uses butane,basically, if you shoot it at a fire and it burns,, it's Goin to help start the engine.
I use ether.
Prime the carb bowl.
That is the
Prime
Setting on the petcock.
If your cylinder is dry
Low compression
Aaand not healthy..
Back to top
 
 

The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
  IP Logged
robb+
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline



Posts: 36
Muskegon, Michigan
Gender: male
Re: Engine seems to stop at TDC when turned manual
Reply #24 - 09/01/21 at 08:31:37
 
Justin, please don't reply unless it's 1) in complete sentences and 2) at least helpful. If you read back, there is fuel going to the float bowl, and it is combusting in the cylinder. Obviously I'm not just leaning on the battery and starter, but you do use both of those things if you want to start the bike. I put it back on the trickle charger whenever I'm done working on it. Also, it was put together with assembly lube and the oil was added through the valve inspection covers per I think OldFellers timing chain replacement write up, so it's not dry.

oldNslow, if I connect the battery directly to the starter, and it spins it under compression (with the ignition coil removed), would that indicate the battery doesn't have enough juice to do both the starter and the spark?
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Gary_in_NJ
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

LS650 Cafe Racer

Posts: 2625
Amongst the Twisty Roads
Re: Engine seems to stop at TDC when turned manual
Reply #25 - 09/01/21 at 09:54:41
 
If the voltage drops below 11VDC with the starter engaged, there is not enough current for the CDI.
Back to top
 
 

A life-time student of motorcycling.
LS650 Cafe, DRZ400SM, FZ6N, SV650S, CB900C, Ducati ST2, CB550F-SS
My LS650=> http://suzukisavage.com/yabb2.2/Attachments/Left.JPG
  IP Logged
oldNslow
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 2679
Rochester, NY
Gender: male
Re: Engine seems to stop at TDC when turned manual
Reply #26 - 09/01/21 at 10:40:13
 
Quote:
oldNslow, if I connect the battery directly to the starter, and it spins it under compression (with the ignition coil removed), would that indicate the battery doesn't have enough juice to do both the starter and the spark?


That won't tell you anything.

You said the plug fires when it is out of the head . That indicates that there is nothing wrong with your ignition module, the coil or the plug. With the plug out there is no compression and the starter isn't loading the battery and drawing the current down below the level that the ignition system requires to fire the plug.

Quote:
If the voltage drops below 11VDC with the starter engaged, there is not enough current for the CDI.


When the plug is screwed into he head, and the starter is turning over the engine against compression, a battery that is weak, or not fully charged, isn't capable of (1) spinning the engine over fast enough and  (2) supplying enough current to the ignition module to cause the coil to fire the plug.

If you can figure out a way to hook your multimeter leads to the bike battery, or get someone to hold them for you, take a voltage reading with the bike off. A good, fully charged battery should read round 12.75V. If you have just removed the battery from a charger and it reads 13V or more then turn the ignition switch on for a minute o two to get rid of the surface charge.

Then hit the starter button. Like Gary said, if the voltage drops below 11V the plug isn't going to fire.

Or jump it from your truck battery.

If the truck battery starts the bike you are all set. Your bike battery is the problem.

before I hit post I just went back and saw this:

"
Full disclosure: the battery did tip over on my way home from picking it up. "

New battery ?
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
robb+
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline



Posts: 36
Muskegon, Michigan
Gender: male
Re: Engine seems to stop at TDC when turned manual
Reply #27 - 09/01/21 at 11:34:00
 
Decided to go home for lunch and here's what I tried in order:

*Tested the battery while the ignition is on. 12.6v
*Tested the battery while trying to start (fiance was home): It dropped around 0.9v through each crank. Only did it for a few seconds. Last value was 9 something.
*Got the 4runner battery out and hooked up (took the tank off first because I'm not going to accidentally make a bomb), it ran so much faster.
*Did another compression test with the truck battery because I'm data gathering and got 100psi again.
*Removed the decomp lever and it nothing changed.
***now here's some magic***
*Decided to put some pressure on the lever with my thumb, and it read up to 120psi, so maybe my decomp lever was loose?!
*Hooked up the bike battery and got 110psi with the same method. (again being super reasonable on the starter motor).

I ran out of time because I had to put my battery back in the truck to go to work (I build websites in case you mods ever want some help), but I am definitely going to try starting it with the truck battery when I get back home.

Edit: OnS: the battery was/is new. I picked it up from Babbitts, and it tipped over on the way home. Scooped a battery acid pack from Autozone and refilled the cells to the upper line and recharged. I put it back on the charger every time I'm done doing a test or trying to start.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
robb+
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline



Posts: 36
Muskegon, Michigan
Gender: male
Re: Engine seems to stop at TDC when turned manual
Reply #28 - 09/02/21 at 08:10:25
 
Tried to fire it up with the truck battery but didn't get it going. It cranked over normally though, so I think the battery I have is bad.

I installed the Raptor petcock while I was rebuilding the engine, and that is set to On and I have a vacuum plug on the other side of the carb. Gas is in the tank.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
oldNslow
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 2679
Rochester, NY
Gender: male
Re: Engine seems to stop at TDC when turned manual
Reply #29 - 09/02/21 at 09:13:01
 
There is a bowl drain screw on the bottom right side of the carb float bowl. Unscrew it and make sure there is gas in the bowl.

If not pull the line from the petcock to the carb and verify that gas is getting from the tank to the carb. When I bought my raptor petcock years ago there was a long piece of clear plastic tubing over the inlet filter (to protect it during shipping i presume). If yours had that did you remove it.?

Take the plug wire off the plug. Leave the plug in the head.

Attach a known good plug to the wire, ground it to the cylinder and check for spark using the truck battery.

Even with the low compression readings you're getting, if all the above checks out I think the engine should at least try to start. cranking it with your truck battery.

If you don't get at least a couple of pops and maybe some smoke out the exhaust then I think your are back to looking at the motor itself.

Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print


« Home

 
« Home
SuzukiSavage.com
04/26/24 at 09:33:08



General CategoryRubber Side Down! › Engine seems to stop at TDC when turned manually


SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2!
YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved.