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Hardtail Conversion (VV) (Read 1026 times)
T And T Garage
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Re: Hardtail Conversion (VV)
Reply #45 - 04/18/17 at 14:48:35
 
Dagillespi wrote on 04/17/17 at 18:43:54:
Looks great gonna do a voodoo someday myself. Riding on struts and spring seat now. Like the tank too.


Thanks!  Let us know when you start - it's been a fun time working on this so far!
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Re: Hardtail Conversion (VV)
Reply #46 - 04/20/17 at 02:37:25
 
T And T Garage wrote on 01/18/17 at 16:22:07:
Since I didn't do it on the outset, I should tell everyone our intentions for this build.

We don't really want to do a standard bobber.  No hard pan seat, no coffin tank, no tombstone tail light, etc.  What we're hoping to do is "capture the essence" of a vintage BWM R35 or '51 Honda Dream.  At the same time, we want to try to do something modern - front and rear disk brakes controlled by one pedal with a proportioning valve, and to keep the bars as clean as possible (no levers - more to come on that).

What we try & set out to do is something that hasn't been done before.  Yes, sometimes there's a very good reason why it's never been done - because it's dangerous, or silly, or simply impossible.  But for us, it's doing something that challenges us as builders.  If it turns out the idea stinks - we'll abandon it.  We're doing this as a learning experience - a couple of guys hanging out in a garage, turning wrenches.

You might as well challenge yourselves - right?
Smiley


Hi.

I'd like to tip you on a good workable option for your "one pedal works both brakes"

Moto Guzzi made the V35 V50 V65 V75 "small-medium block" bikes from the mid-'70s all the way to the early 2000's with their world famous "Integral braking system":
- front brake lever activates front right caliper,
- foot pedal activates rear caliper AND fronty left caliper.
This happend through one rear hydraulic foot-pump and one brake compensator (ripartitore di frenata)

While I do realize that finding a semi-vintage Guzzi brake pump may be rarer than hens' teeth,
you should be able to find whatever you need on British or European eBay.

http://www.ebay.it/itm/POMPA-FRENO-POSTERIORE-BREMBO-MOTO-GUZZI-V35-IMOLA-350...
http://www.ebay.it/itm/RIPARTITORE-DI-FRENATA-MOTO-GUZZI-850-T5-LEMANS-1000-G...

The brake pump is already calibrated at 60/40 but can be "tailored", i.e. 70/30 or close to that...

You will naturally want to use the original brake lever (pedal)

http://www.ebay.it/itm/LEVA-PEDALE-FRENO-POST-MOTO-GUZZI-850-T5-1000-SP-LEMAN...

You will find the same brake pump off an older big-block Goose (850-1000-1100cc) while the 1200cc 1400cc versions might prove a bit too powerful for your lightweight hardtail.

... Roll Eyes ...

Of course, you could save a whole lot of money by fitting a universal brake proportioning valve...



http://www.ebay.it/itm/RIPARTITORE-DI-FRENATA-UNIVERSALE-adjustable-brake-pro...

...but it wouldn't be an OEM, old stock, semi-vintage BREMBO of racing heritage, would it ?

Wink
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Mikuni BST40, K&N filter, Stage2 cam, Verslagen tensioner, Sportster muff, 120 proof moonshine, Pirelli MT 66 tourers... and a chain conversion too !
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Re: Hardtail Conversion (VV)
Reply #47 - 04/20/17 at 06:51:37
 
mpescatori wrote on 04/20/17 at 02:37:25:
Hi.

I'd like to tip you on a good workable option for your "one pedal works both brakes"

Moto Guzzi made the V35 V50 V65 V75 "small-medium block" bikes from the mid-'70s all the way to the early 2000's with their world famous "Integral braking system":
- front brake lever activates front right caliper,
- foot pedal activates rear caliper AND fronty left caliper.
This happend through one rear hydraulic foot-pump and one brake compensator (ripartitore di frenata)

While I do realize that finding a semi-vintage Guzzi brake pump may be rarer than hens' teeth,
you should be able to find whatever you need on British or European eBay.

http://www.ebay.it/itm/POMPA-FRENO-POSTERIORE-BREMBO-MOTO-GUZZI-V35-IMOLA-350...
http://www.ebay.it/itm/RIPARTITORE-DI-FRENATA-MOTO-GUZZI-850-T5-LEMANS-1000-G...

The brake pump is already calibrated at 60/40 but can be "tailored", i.e. 70/30 or close to that...

You will naturally want to use the original brake lever (pedal)

http://www.ebay.it/itm/LEVA-PEDALE-FRENO-POST-MOTO-GUZZI-850-T5-1000-SP-LEMAN...

You will find the same brake pump off an older big-block Goose (850-1000-1100cc) while the 1200cc 1400cc versions might prove a bit too powerful for your lightweight hardtail.

... Roll Eyes ...

Of course, you could save a whole lot of money by fitting a universal brake proportioning valve...

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjQwWDY0MA==/z/d40AAOSwB09YPId8/$_12.JPG

http://www.ebay.it/itm/RIPARTITORE-DI-FRENATA-UNIVERSALE-adjustable-brake-pro...

...but it wouldn't be an OEM, old stock, semi-vintage BREMBO of racing heritage, would it ?

Wink



Awesome!  Thanks for the info!  Very helpful!!!
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Re: Hardtail Conversion (VV)
Reply #48 - 05/10/18 at 16:03:45
 
Wow - Time flies.  I can't believe I haven't posted any progress on our "bobber" in over a year!

Sadly, not too much to report.  Since my last update, we've done several "turn-and-burns" to keep the coffers filled and we've gut rehabbed the garage.


However, we're back in work mode and did a proof of concept on the brakes - it worked great!

We found our bars, headlight and foot-pegs at a swap and we think they'll work out well.  We bought our carb and new flange.  And last but not least, we finally decided on a seat mount design.

Here are a few pics:







Running our brake lines through the frame.



Our conduit for the front brakes and wiring.



Seat design - KISS - keep it simple, stupid.  FYI, the tank is not quite into position.




Next up - handlebar controls.  We're going to do an internal throttle and clutch.  A la - no levers....

This ought to be interesting.

Smiley
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Re: Hardtail Conversion (VV)
Reply #49 - 05/11/18 at 03:28:19
 
Looks great!
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Re: Hardtail Conversion (VV)
Reply #50 - 05/11/18 at 06:13:16
 
sandmanred wrote on 05/11/18 at 03:28:19:
Looks great!  



Thanks!
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Re: Hardtail Conversion (VV)
Reply #51 - 05/11/18 at 06:39:06
 
Loving the look with that tank!

I'm not sure about the rear rotor mount though.  I think you might be underestimating the torque those 4 bolts are going to endure under load.  I'm seeing those threads getting ripped right out of the hub.  Or I might be overestimating the load they will take and it will be fine.  

Anyway, if you think it could be an issue, I would machine a solid ring that is welded or bolted to the hub. Then bold the rotor to that.  That would eliminate the twisting forces those bolts and spacers are going to have to withstand.
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Re: Hardtail Conversion (VV)
Reply #52 - 05/11/18 at 11:30:11
 
ohiomoto wrote on 05/11/18 at 06:39:06:
Loving the look with that tank!

I'm not sure about the rear rotor mount though.  I think you might be underestimating the torque those 4 bolts are going to endure under load.  I'm seeing those threads getting ripped right out of the hub.  Or I might be overestimating the load they will take and it will be fine.  

Anyway, if you think it could be an issue, I would machine a solid ring that is welded or bolted to the hub. Then bold the rotor to that.  That would eliminate the twisting forces those bolts and spacers are going to have to withstand.




Point well taken Ohio - great minds think alike!  We're using the spacers for the time being for placement.  Once we're set, the guy who modified our rear hub was goint weld new custom machined ones in place (we need a thicker wall/larger OD).  But I like your idea of a ring.... we'll look into that.

I'll post the progress.

Thanks again!
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Re: Hardtail Conversion (VV)
Reply #53 - 05/11/18 at 11:46:25
 
Cool.  Even if you do the spacers, at least tie them together with some flat stock so that they cannot flex individually.  Essentially making them act as a single unit/ring/whatever you want to call it...
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Re: Hardtail Conversion (VV)
Reply #54 - 05/14/18 at 23:48:56
 
Myself I think I might go with the proportioning valve ,for it allows you to adjust the balance. It's hard to tell from your pics ,is that rear disc larger and is the caliper stronger than the front? If the valve was mounted with in reach you could adjust it on the fly , that might be good if say you were caught is heavy rain and you didn't want the rear locking up.It being small,  simple,  and reliable speaks well for it use.
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Re: Hardtail Conversion (VV)
Reply #55 - 06/06/18 at 15:45:12
 
Sometimes, you just can't find the right tool....

Grin

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« Last Edit: 06/11/18 at 16:55:27 by T And T Garage »  
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Re: Hardtail Conversion (VV)
Reply #56 - 06/11/18 at 17:00:10
 
Exhaust possibility...  (nope, it wont be that long  Wink ) .    Very preliminary

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Re: Hardtail Conversion (VV)
Reply #57 - 06/29/18 at 13:44:08
 
Very cool
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Re: Hardtail Conversion (VV)
Reply #58 - 05/14/20 at 14:50:06
 
So, it's been quite a while since we've posted.

We've gone through quite a bit, but we're nearing the end

Here are some updated pics:




Frame back from paint



Top-end rebuild and new clutch



Powder coating spokes



First time lacing wheels - quite "fun"...



Then there's the truing - also... "fun"



Easiest way to put the engine in?  On its side!




Starting to come together




Reverse clutch lever



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Re: Hardtail Conversion (VV)
Reply #59 - 05/14/20 at 15:05:30
 
This project has pushed up our base skillset.  Things like wet brakes, frame mods, electrical systems, seat design and a few other things.

Virtually everything except the engine has been redesigned.  We purposely didn't want to do the "stock bobber" from Voodoo or Ryca.  From the internal throttle, reverse clutch, to the single brake pedal controlling both front and rear disks, to hiding everything in the frame and under the tank - this was a great challenge.

Since starting this project we've done several "turn and burns" to keep the kitty stoked - that's why it's taken us so long.  That, and life has way of diverting your attention...

We're about ready to ride it and we'll post more pics in the near future.

This has been a great experience - I hope to do something like it again.

Thanks to all who chimed in!
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