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The best oil filter (Read 471 times)
Dave
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Re: The best oil filter
Reply #30 - 09/08/16 at 07:24:07
 
It really doesn't matter if you flush it or not.

If things inside are throwing metals parts around, filters, new oil, a diesel fuel flush......none of that will help.  Engines cannot heal, and you really need to take something(s) apart and see what is damaged/broken/worn.

You stated the valves were adjusted at the TDC just after the exhaust valve closes.  That makes me think you adjusted at the wrong TDC, as you should have rotated the crankshaft another full revolution after the exhaust valve closes.  (When the exhaust valve is just closing - the intake valve is just beginning to open for the intake stroke, and both valves are supposed to be slightly off the valve seats (valve overlap).  If you adjusted the valves at this point of rotation....the valve clearance is going to be too big when you check them at the proper TDC.

You stated the clutch drags, and that the engine slows down when you pull in the clutch.  This is an obvious sign that you did something wrong inside, as the engine should have less drag with the clutch pulled in.

If you did not take the head cap off, and you rolled the engine around while working on it and putting it back in the frame - you most certainly had a dry "well" under the camshaft when you started the motor up.  It could have damaged the cam/rockers in a very short amount of time....especially if you had opened up the filter housing and the oil pump had to fill that cavity up before it would pump any oil to the head.  If this is what is damaged, it can all be fixed with a new/reground cam and new rockers.  You should start the engine up and let it run for about half a minute - then take the front valve inspection cap off and see if everything is coated with oil.......this will confirm if you oil pump is working or not.
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cheapnewb24
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Re: The best oil filter
Reply #31 - 09/08/16 at 08:18:20
 
Dave wrote on 09/08/16 at 07:24:07:
It really doesn't matter if you flush it or not.

If things inside are throwing metals parts around, filters, new oil, a diesel fuel flush......none of that will help.  Engines cannot heal, and you really need to take something(s) apart and see what is damaged/broken/worn.

You stated the valves were adjusted at the TDC just after the exhaust valve closes.  That makes me think you adjusted at the wrong TDC, as you should have rotated the crankshaft another full revolution after the exhaust valve closes.  (When the exhaust valve is just closing - the intake valve is just beginning to open for the intake stroke, and both valves are supposed to be slightly off the valve seats (valve overlap).  If you adjusted the valves at this point of rotation....the valve clearance is going to be too big when you check them at the proper TDC.

Uhh... doubt it. When I adjusted it the first time, the exhaust valves already had clearance. I still wonder a little. when I think about it... Undecided


You stated the clutch drags, and that the engine slows down when you pull in the clutch.  This is an obvious sign that you did something wrong inside, as the engine should have less drag with the clutch pulled in.

I'm starting to suspect that some of that drag is normal. I had a loose clutch basket Pulling the clutch does put a load on the throwout bearing and the bearings in the transmission input shaft. I wonder if the drag would be noticeable, though. Undecided

If you did not take the head cap off, and you rolled the engine around while working on it and putting it back in the frame - you most certainly had a dry "well" under the camshaft when you started the motor up.  It could have damaged the cam/rockers in a very short amount of time....especially if you had opened up the filter housing and the oil pump had to fill that cavity up before it would pump any oil to the head.  If this is what is damaged, it can all be fixed with a new/reground cam and new rockers.  

What, you want me to tear everything apart again and spend $$$ on cam work?  Angry :frustration:. Dad's already telling me to trade it off. Sad If I can just get it to stop grinding itself away, I'll be happy for the meantime.

You should start the engine up and let it run for about half a minute - then take the front valve inspection cap off and see if everything is coated with oil.......this will confirm if you oil pump is working or not.  


Oh, I'll do better than that. I'll dump oil down the valve covers. Then, when it's running, I'll pull the pressure plug (with helper on the kill), put my finger over it, and see if it squirts out in my face.

I've spent most of the season not riding. I'm sick of it. I'll ride if I have to get another bike.

:frustration:
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Dave
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Re: The best oil filter
Reply #32 - 09/08/16 at 08:36:24
 
cheapnewb24 wrote on 09/08/16 at 08:18:20:
Oh, I'll do better than that. I'll dump oil down the valve covers. Then, when it's running, I'll pull the pressure plug (with helper on the kill), put my finger over it, and see if it squirts out in my face.


Once again you are not listening to good, sound advice.

Don't dump oil down the head, you won't learn anything from it.

Start the bike, run it 30 seconds, remove the valve cover and look inside...hopefully you will see a coating of oil on the parts, and that will confirm the pump is working.
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« Last Edit: 09/08/16 at 09:45:40 by Dave »  

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norm92de
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Re: The best oil filter
Reply #33 - 09/08/16 at 12:05:52
 
Talking about the oil bath in the cylinder head. When I change the oil I keep the bike more or less level. When the oil stops draining that's it. I make no attempt to get all the oil out of the cylinder head.

I think starting the bike with the 'bathtub' empty is a very bad idea. Of course, you could take off the valve cover and dump some oil in the head that way. I don't think the small amount of old oil remaining matters very much compared to a dry cam.

What is the consensus? And or the consequences.
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Re: The best oil filter
Reply #34 - 09/08/16 at 12:15:12
 
I agree , good idea !
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Re: The best oil filter
Reply #35 - 09/08/16 at 12:25:43
 
Draining the "well" in the head, or tipping the bike to try and get the small amount of oil that sits in the cavities in the engine is really not necessary.  The oil is not "polluted" - it is just a bit dirty and won't contaminate the nearly 2 quarts of oil that is added.

Taking the valve inspection cap off, and oiling the cam/rockers is only necessary of the engine has been tipped over enough that the head well is empty - or the bike has been in storage a long time.

When an engine is rebuilt of the head cap is removed - it is best to put cam assembly lube on the camshaft and rockers to lubricate them until the oil begins to flow.
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Kenny G
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Re: The best oil filter
Reply #36 - 09/08/16 at 14:49:41
 
Dave,

"When an engine is rebuilt of the head cap is removed - it is best to put cam assembly lube on the camshaft and rockers to lubricate them until the oil begins to flow."

Cam Assembly Lube is something that I am not familiar with, although the term is probably self explanatory, what would I actually ask for when I go shopping.

Kenny G
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Re: The best oil filter
Reply #37 - 09/08/16 at 15:34:35
 
If you get a Webcam - it will come with a tube of lube.

Otherwise....you can use these.

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/competition-cams-engine-assembly-lube-8-oz...

http://www.autozone.com/miscellaneous-cleaners-and-degreasers/lube/comp-cams-...

Or a similar Assembly lube product.
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Kenny G
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Re: The best oil filter
Reply #38 - 09/08/16 at 15:48:48
 
Dave,

Thank you.

I have used Assembly Lube and I never bought a cam that came with lube.

Kenny G
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Re: The best oil filter
Reply #39 - 09/08/16 at 17:35:10
 
I put the zddp in the rotella, put it in the motor with new oil filter, topped it off with T6, made sure the little bathtub had oil in it, primed it several times, and got it running. I skipped the oil pressure check. The oil filter having strained out all that garbage is decent evidence that the pump is running. I might check it later just to make sure.

I found that if I look down in there just right with a light, I can see the cam lobes. I can see obvious wear, as some of the cam is dark, and some is bright with wear. How much wear is another question.

The valves were mouse quiet at first. As the engine warmed up, they made a little noise. Maybe normal. The oil is still dirtier than I like, so I'll probably change it soon. Since I don't have any more ZDDP left until I get some more in in a few days, I may end up using some Delo I have laying around. It has outstanding ZDDP numbers, and that little bit of moly is probably the least of my worries.

Took it for a drive. Went no faster than about 45 indicated (maybe 50 actual). Gotta break it in all over again like a new one.

I'll check the filter in the morning for more metal.

As for the clutch, sometimes finding neutral is easy. I just have to go to 2nd and push down. Other times, I'm not so lucky. pulling the clutch in neutral still puts on a slight load. Maybe spinning that little o ring and the pressure on the bearings just makes a little friction?
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Re: The best oil filter
Reply #40 - 09/08/16 at 17:47:58
 
Uhm, your bike is plenty "broke in".  Just ride it till it runs like a turd.  Then rebuild it.
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Re: The best oil filter
Reply #41 - 09/08/16 at 18:51:07
 
Shiny lobes and a dark base on the cam is normal.

The cam lobe should be smooth and shiny.....not gouged and shiny.
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Re: The best oil filter
Reply #42 - 09/09/16 at 00:22:07
 
Dave wrote on 09/08/16 at 15:34:35:
If you get a Webcam - it will come with a tube of lube.




And right there,as I quickly scanned the thread, I wondered if this one had degenerated into discussion of online colonoscopy.  Wink
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Re: The best oil filter
Reply #43 - 09/09/16 at 02:11:26
 
The new Go Pro micro?
A Hole new approach to
Selfies?
Each camera, tapered and mounted on a flexible wand
comes with a tube of specially formulated lube.
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Re: The best oil filter
Reply #44 - 09/09/16 at 11:32:27
 
It ran great for awhile, then I fixed it anyway .
Put Whatever you touched BACK where it was.
Now, here's the deal on fidgeting with adjustments.

Any time you decide to turn an adjustment, you First Determine exactly where it IS adjusted by GENTLY closing it, carefully counting the turns. Marking the adjuster And the carburetor with a Sharpie is a sharp idea. Then you back it out to where you were and add a quarter turn or so. That way you can get back to,


It ran great for awhile..


Now, since you have so Clearly demonstrated that you screw yourself almost every time you decide to do something, why don't you Try mentioning what you're thinking about doing and see if MAYBE the people here can possibly head you off and keep you from screwing up?

Did dad bust you upside the head with a three foot 2X4 for
Fixing the problem that didn't exist?

It's probably a good thing, really. Keeps you from getting killed in traffic.

I'm curious,,, how often do you grab a hammer and smash a thumb? You learned that hurts, didn't you?
Why do you continue to pick up tools and mess with machines?
If it ain't Broke, DON'T FIX IT!
And if it Is absolutely necessary to work on something, ask BEFORE you choose a course of action.

You have untold man YEARS of experience at your disposal, yet,
You choose to continue to Do things without asking. You don't
Know the little things you don't know.
The people here have been pretty patient, offered their best advice, and it takes Time to read the problem, argue back and forth for details, get an accurate picture of what is going on, then think about it, then type an answer. You're a frustrating student. You're well old enough to do better.
Self discipline is in order. One day dad won't be there to keep you fed and clothed and housed. When that reality sets in, you Better be able to make it on your own.
I think you need a grown man job with manual labor and goals and a deadline. If you can swing a hammer and run a tape measure and a saw, a dude your size could make out framing houses. You might start out picking up scrap, hauling lumber to the crew, whatever,, just Get the Foreman to give you a chance, then Do what you are told and Don't try to
Improve the system,
Change the way they do things,at all. They have been doing it longer than you, I promise. And, as you've seen, sometimes your great ideas really aren't that great.


AAAH! I see you decided to Not admit that.. well, too late, I read it. I wish I had hit the quote button.
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