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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> The best oil filter /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1473183189 Message started by cheapnewb24 on 09/06/16 at 10:33:09 |
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Title: The best oil filter Post by cheapnewb24 on 09/06/16 at 10:33:09 I've got an oem filter ready to put in with some fresh rotella, but I'll probably end up changing it a second time in order to get all the metal out. Perhaps I can change the oil and filter, then oil again, then the second filter afterwards so I can ride wait for it to arrive? :-? So, I'm thinking about what brand of filter to buy. There's been K&N run in this thing in the past, and their filters are known for high flow, and these bikes are known for low oil pressure. Do these particular K&N filters offer any significant flow advantage, or are they just riding on the name? Anybody try Volar filters? They're dirt cheap. I've tried their brake pads... okay so far. I recall reading bad things about their chains. How about their oil filters? http://www.ebay.com/itm/1986-2009-Suzuki-Savage-650-LS650-Oil-Filter-3-pieces-/131725025489?hash=item1eab6c60d1:g:VwUAAOSwuAVWu-RX&vxp=mtr |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by old.indian on 09/06/16 at 10:37:47 How about a magnetic drain plug ??? 8-) |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by cheapnewb24 on 09/06/16 at 10:50:12 Hmmm... Interesting idea. Where do I get one? |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by cheapnewb24 on 09/06/16 at 11:03:36 How about something like this? http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=RubberSideDown;action=display;num=1175727064 Hmmm...http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1197231468/ I wonder how well it worked out for Oldfeller. :-? Does anybody know the thread size off hand for a 2004 model? Or is it just the head size that varies with year? |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by Dave on 09/06/16 at 11:46:40 I am not sure it is worth worrying about the "best" oil filter at this point. Any oil filter will do as you try and figure out what is wrong with your engine. Just buy a filter that is affordable......anything available will strain out big parts if the get pumped to the filter. And.....if you use the "search" function on this forum....you will find that all this has been discussed before: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1456274896/11#11 http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1434839273/0 http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1345138682/0 http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1343857085/0 http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1332160106/6#6 http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1219986000/4#4 And there are many more...................... |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by Ruttly on 09/06/16 at 12:08:40 Newbee , The best oil filter is the one installed correctly !!! Don't £¥€< it up !!! |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by cheapnewb24 on 09/06/16 at 13:15:39 I just bought one of these to go on the oil filter. https://supermagnetman.com/products/r1106?variant=11410342915 A good choice? I'll probably get some cheap volar filters while I'm at it. |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by cheapnewb24 on 09/06/16 at 13:53:42 I just bought 3 volar filters for cheap and one Hiflofiltro for under $7, and I can get it by Thursday. :). Over 15 bucks for all those filters. Now, what am I going to do with all of them... :-/ |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by old.indian on 09/06/16 at 14:04:58 59525F5B4A545F4D58080E3A0 wrote:
I doubt if they have a "use by date", so you'll use them sooner or later.... |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by Ruttly on 09/06/16 at 14:58:08 Let's have a oil changing party at newbees place, he got filters , byob !! |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by stewmills on 09/06/16 at 15:16:41 634445455D48310 wrote:
Dangit....you stole my comment! At this point, I think this is splitting hairs. If I rebuilt an engine I would just get decent quality filters I know don't impede proper flow, and do a few frequent oil and filter changes and call it a day. If it has so much stuff in it after a couple of oil changes you probably have bigger things to worry about than oil filters. I got 3 VOLAR oil filters off fleaby for less than $10 and they seem just fine...but I haven't worked on my engine either! :o |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/06/16 at 15:42:22 You worry more than ride. Just stick a filter in and Ride. It's not gonna die because the oil was insufficiently filtered. What kinda Ferrous metal did you find? How much did you get out of the oil with the magnet? |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by oldNslow on 09/06/16 at 15:44:44 1 oem, 3 volar, 1 hiflofiltro = 5 filters. recommended change interval 3500 miles so: enough filters for 17500 miles. I think yer all set for now ::) ::) |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by Kris01 on 09/06/16 at 18:22:52 5E4147405D5A6B5B6B53414D06340 wrote:
Amen! |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by Ruttly on 09/06/16 at 20:49:01 Stewy,Beat you to your punchline I get sick inside every time I read a " it stopped running after I changed the oil " posts. Just makes me ill ! I like triple check before the screws go in |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by cheapnewb24 on 09/07/16 at 06:52:15 I just wanted to say... I'm rather apprehensive as to whether changing the oil and adjusting the valves will halt the wear. If it was grinding away before, it may still grind away again. If the cam lobes are scratched/pitted rough.... :-/ In the meantime, I'm gonna dump in some extra zddp with the new oil. Maybe that'll help. Let's hope for the best. :-/ |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/07/16 at 12:29:39 Xxx STOP ZDDP is NOT DUMPED. It's, Measured and Added. enough is enough, too much is bad. |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by cheapnewb24 on 09/07/16 at 12:42:06 I may have less than half a bottle (<1 oz) of zddp maxx left. Half ounce per quart for racing app. with low zinc oil.Somewhat less for Rotella I guess. If I'm off, probably not too much. Remember, it's like break in oil in this case. It needs it this time. |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/07/16 at 12:49:39 36292F2835320333033B29256E5C0 wrote:
I don't See any answer .. Too much ZDDP is too much. It's never Better than the correct amount. |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by cheapnewb24 on 09/07/16 at 12:56:45 I found a few metal bits on the magnet, but mostly just a fine graphite look to the oil. I'm trying to post some videos. It's taking awhile. I tried to get more of the oil out by blocking it up on boards and tilting it about. Eventually, it all creeled, the bike tried to fall, and most of the oil got dumped. :(. At least it's trash oil. |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by cheapnewb24 on 09/07/16 at 14:01:18 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yO4KPgOLYs&feature=youtu.be [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yO4KPgOLYs&feature=youtu.be[/media] See the graphite look? Not a huge amount of steel on the magnet it seems. One big flake you can clearly see. Could have been worse. |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by cheapnewb24 on 09/07/16 at 14:25:22 Since the exhaust took a worse beating, I wonder which rocker pad is on the uphill side with the kickstand down. If the exhaust cam lobe sits on the right side, that might partly explain it.... A dry start. |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by cheapnewb24 on 09/07/16 at 14:46:25 I just looked at the filter, and there's significantly more metal. There's even at least one shaving that is long and curled like it had been machined off. :( Should I even try? :( |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by cheapnewb24 on 09/07/16 at 14:56:38 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms-3TGrC6Jg&feature=youtu.be [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms-3TGrC6Jg&feature=youtu.be[/media] |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/07/16 at 15:03:48 So, you decided to see if you could empty the bathtub under the cam Again. Some ferrous bits are normal. Half a teaspoon is too much. If you have zero ferrous dust, you have zero wear. DON'T RUN IT ON THE SIDESTAND and it doesn't Matter which is high. But, it Is exhaust. I'm not willing to believe it hurt, Unless you idled it on the sidestand and started it dry. You Did, didn't you? |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by cheapnewb24 on 09/07/16 at 15:52:30 Like I said before, I tried to prime it, but it may not have been enough. I should have poured oil down the valve covers... My mistake. Between worrying with the low battery and charger and Dad bugging me to start it up, not only did I not get a really good prime on it, I messed up and started it on the kickstand not thinking. I remember realizing this a few seconds later and raising it up. ::) Too little too late. Is it destroyed? Am I going to have a catastrophic meltdown? Found a beat up (but currently ridden) klr250 for 800 bucks. I'd like to get a street-and-trail bike. Suitable for my area. (My local commute includes steep dirt roads, backroads, and 60mph highway, and a little town driving). Dad doesn't like dirt bikes... thinks of them as child's toys or something. :facepalm: ::) He's more interested in a VLX600, Honda's cheap ol' 4 speed cruiser. You know how newbies are... All they can think of is Harleys and cruisers. ::) |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by Kris01 on 09/07/16 at 18:14:43 Vids are private apparently. |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by cheapnewb24 on 09/07/16 at 18:33:52 Sorry... Are they up yet? |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by cheapnewb24 on 09/07/16 at 21:36:08 Dad suggested that I flush the engine with diesel fuel. I don't think that's a very good idea. ::) ;D |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/07/16 at 23:38:52 T h ats how I would flush. |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by Dave on 09/08/16 at 07:24:07 It really doesn't matter if you flush it or not. If things inside are throwing metals parts around, filters, new oil, a diesel fuel flush......none of that will help. Engines cannot heal, and you really need to take something(s) apart and see what is damaged/broken/worn. You stated the valves were adjusted at the TDC just after the exhaust valve closes. That makes me think you adjusted at the wrong TDC, as you should have rotated the crankshaft another full revolution after the exhaust valve closes. (When the exhaust valve is just closing - the intake valve is just beginning to open for the intake stroke, and both valves are supposed to be slightly off the valve seats (valve overlap). If you adjusted the valves at this point of rotation....the valve clearance is going to be too big when you check them at the proper TDC. You stated the clutch drags, and that the engine slows down when you pull in the clutch. This is an obvious sign that you did something wrong inside, as the engine should have less drag with the clutch pulled in. If you did not take the head cap off, and you rolled the engine around while working on it and putting it back in the frame - you most certainly had a dry "well" under the camshaft when you started the motor up. It could have damaged the cam/rockers in a very short amount of time....especially if you had opened up the filter housing and the oil pump had to fill that cavity up before it would pump any oil to the head. If this is what is damaged, it can all be fixed with a new/reground cam and new rockers. You should start the engine up and let it run for about half a minute - then take the front valve inspection cap off and see if everything is coated with oil.......this will confirm if you oil pump is working or not. |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by cheapnewb24 on 09/08/16 at 08:18:20 03383522333F242239313C23500 wrote:
Oh, I'll do better than that. I'll dump oil down the valve covers. Then, when it's running, I'll pull the pressure plug (with helper on the kill), put my finger over it, and see if it squirts out in my face. I've spent most of the season not riding. I'm sick of it. I'll ride if I have to get another bike. :frustration: |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by Dave on 09/08/16 at 08:36:24 42494440514F4456431315210 wrote:
Once again you are not listening to good, sound advice. Don't dump oil down the head, you won't learn anything from it. Start the bike, run it 30 seconds, remove the valve cover and look inside...hopefully you will see a coating of oil on the parts, and that will confirm the pump is working. |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by norm92de on 09/08/16 at 12:05:52 Talking about the oil bath in the cylinder head. When I change the oil I keep the bike more or less level. When the oil stops draining that's it. I make no attempt to get all the oil out of the cylinder head. I think starting the bike with the 'bathtub' empty is a very bad idea. Of course, you could take off the valve cover and dump some oil in the head that way. I don't think the small amount of old oil remaining matters very much compared to a dry cam. What is the consensus? And or the consequences. |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by Ruttly on 09/08/16 at 12:15:12 I agree , good idea ! |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by Dave on 09/08/16 at 12:25:43 Draining the "well" in the head, or tipping the bike to try and get the small amount of oil that sits in the cavities in the engine is really not necessary. The oil is not "polluted" - it is just a bit dirty and won't contaminate the nearly 2 quarts of oil that is added. Taking the valve inspection cap off, and oiling the cam/rockers is only necessary of the engine has been tipped over enough that the head well is empty - or the bike has been in storage a long time. When an engine is rebuilt of the head cap is removed - it is best to put cam assembly lube on the camshaft and rockers to lubricate them until the oil begins to flow. |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by KennyG on 09/08/16 at 14:49:41 Dave, "When an engine is rebuilt of the head cap is removed - it is best to put cam assembly lube on the camshaft and rockers to lubricate them until the oil begins to flow." Cam Assembly Lube is something that I am not familiar with, although the term is probably self explanatory, what would I actually ask for when I go shopping. Kenny G |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by Dave on 09/08/16 at 15:34:35 If you get a Webcam - it will come with a tube of lube. Otherwise....you can use these. http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/competition-cams-engine-assembly-lube-8-oz.-jar-104/10214934-p?iv_=__iv_p_1_a_214327102_g_12425515822_w_pla-191562197542_h_9014387_ii__d_c_v__n_g_x_pla_y_6201684_f_online_o_10214934-P_z_US_i_en_j_191562197542_s__vi__&utm_source=ACQ&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PLA&utm_content=shoppingcampaigns&gclid=CPyX5rDkgM8CFdgQgQodhSADBQ http://www.autozone.com/miscellaneous-cleaners-and-degreasers/lube/comp-cams-8-oz-bottle-pro-cam-lube/85617_0_0/ Or a similar Assembly lube product. |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by KennyG on 09/08/16 at 15:48:48 Dave, Thank you. I have used Assembly Lube and I never bought a cam that came with lube. Kenny G |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by cheapnewb24 on 09/08/16 at 17:35:10 I put the zddp in the rotella, put it in the motor with new oil filter, topped it off with T6, made sure the little bathtub had oil in it, primed it several times, and got it running. I skipped the oil pressure check. The oil filter having strained out all that garbage is decent evidence that the pump is running. I might check it later just to make sure. I found that if I look down in there just right with a light, I can see the cam lobes. I can see obvious wear, as some of the cam is dark, and some is bright with wear. How much wear is another question. The valves were mouse quiet at first. As the engine warmed up, they made a little noise. Maybe normal. The oil is still dirtier than I like, so I'll probably change it soon. Since I don't have any more ZDDP left until I get some more in in a few days, I may end up using some Delo I have laying around. It has outstanding ZDDP numbers, and that little bit of moly is probably the least of my worries. Took it for a drive. Went no faster than about 45 indicated (maybe 50 actual). Gotta break it in all over again like a new one. I'll check the filter in the morning for more metal. As for the clutch, sometimes finding neutral is easy. I just have to go to 2nd and push down. Other times, I'm not so lucky. pulling the clutch in neutral still puts on a slight load. Maybe spinning that little o ring and the pressure on the bearings just makes a little friction? http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Confused/sorry.gif |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by ohiomoto on 09/08/16 at 17:47:58 Uhm, your bike is plenty "broke in". Just ride it till it runs like a turd. Then rebuild it. |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by Dave on 09/08/16 at 18:51:07 Shiny lobes and a dark base on the cam is normal. The cam lobe should be smooth and shiny.....not gouged and shiny. |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by gizzo on 09/09/16 at 00:22:07 003B3621303C27213A323F20530 wrote:
And right there,as I quickly scanned the thread, I wondered if this one had degenerated into discussion of online colonoscopy. ;) |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/09/16 at 02:11:26 The new Go Pro micro? A Hole new approach to Selfies? Each camera, tapered and mounted on a flexible wand comes with a tube of specially formulated lube. |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/09/16 at 11:32:27 It ran great for awhile, then I fixed it anyway . Put Whatever you touched BACK where it was. Now, here's the deal on fidgeting with adjustments. Any time you decide to turn an adjustment, you First Determine exactly where it IS adjusted by GENTLY closing it, carefully counting the turns. Marking the adjuster And the carburetor with a Sharpie is a sharp idea. Then you back it out to where you were and add a quarter turn or so. That way you can get back to, It ran great for awhile.. Now, since you have so Clearly demonstrated that you screw yourself almost every time you decide to do something, why don't you Try mentioning what you're thinking about doing and see if MAYBE the people here can possibly head you off and keep you from screwing up? Did dad bust you upside the head with a three foot 2X4 for Fixing the problem that didn't exist? It's probably a good thing, really. Keeps you from getting killed in traffic. I'm curious,,, how often do you grab a hammer and smash a thumb? You learned that hurts, didn't you? Why do you continue to pick up tools and mess with machines? If it ain't Broke, DON'T FIX IT! And if it Is absolutely necessary to work on something, ask BEFORE you choose a course of action. You have untold man YEARS of experience at your disposal, yet, You choose to continue to Do things without asking. You don't Know the little things you don't know. The people here have been pretty patient, offered their best advice, and it takes Time to read the problem, argue back and forth for details, get an accurate picture of what is going on, then think about it, then type an answer. You're a frustrating student. You're well old enough to do better. Self discipline is in order. One day dad won't be there to keep you fed and clothed and housed. When that reality sets in, you Better be able to make it on your own. I think you need a grown man job with manual labor and goals and a deadline. If you can swing a hammer and run a tape measure and a saw, a dude your size could make out framing houses. You might start out picking up scrap, hauling lumber to the crew, whatever,, just Get the Foreman to give you a chance, then Do what you are told and Don't try to Improve the system, Change the way they do things,at all. They have been doing it longer than you, I promise. And, as you've seen, sometimes your great ideas really aren't that great. AAAH! I see you decided to Not admit that.. well, too late, I read it. I wish I had hit the quote button. |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by cheapnewb24 on 09/09/16 at 11:36:59 Uhhh.... thumbing that little enrichment lever on the handlebar while riding down the road shouldn't break the bike... ::) And if it did... the bike wasn't roadworthy anyway. It was unstable. It wasn't my fault. |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/09/16 at 11:58:15 Aaaand here we go. AGAIN Getting the whole story. It's a pain. The original post was not like that, at All. But the good news is, My response was and still is direct and to the point. And that we are even talking about it illustrates one of the points. Getting an Accurate description of what happened is a time consuming problem. Do you even know what it is? A choke? How do you know that you gave it a richer mixture? And Nothing explains Why you decided to fix it when, It ran great for awhile,, That's a copied statement. If it was runninggreat, what were you expecting it to do? Lift off? And why can't you put it back where it was? Eyeball the thing. See if there's slack in whatever it adjusts. Push the lever back past where it was, then back to where it was. |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by stewmills on 09/09/16 at 12:33:56 You just made JOG do this: |
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Title: Re: The best oil filter Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/09/16 at 12:39:48 Naaah,, I'm past that. I Was doing that some time ago. It's gotten Normal enough so I can handle it. If I'm feeling vulnerable to cranial explosion I just make a few passes with the duct tape before I read it. |
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