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Restore my Liberty!  Oil+Overheating+Power loss (Read 295 times)
MirageJack
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Restore my Liberty!  Oil+Overheating+Power loss
08/24/16 at 07:50:14
 
My name is Brent, from Madison WI, and I’ve owned my 2001 Savage since 2013.
As the only bike I’ve ever loved - it's a manifestation of my liberty, and my most prized possession.

Today I've got three things to address!

#1 : Mechanical problems

With 15500 miles, 11000 of them mine, she’s got a plethora of issues, but these are the ones that frighten me:

     1. Horrible, awful, oil leak on the engine.
     2. She runs really, really hot.
     3. Anemic power, which has slowly gotten worse.
     4. Very recently she’s started to misfire.
     
These issues have been present since I’ve owned her, but recently gotten much more prominent. I swear, the oil is freely flowing out of my bike.
My mechanical experience is limited - I know how to use tools, but I’m not familiar with motorcycle mechanics, thus I’m a terrible diagnostician. I’m guessing the above issues are correlated?

At any rate, it’s time to do something about it. So far, I’ve read these threads:

Is THIS the dreaded plug/cap leak??
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1460680231/1#1

Oil Leak on Head Nut Below Intake
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1461042895/2#2

Question about that oil leak under the exhaust
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1455464250/7#7

HOWTO: Head Plug Cap / Seal
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1177184297

Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1099227295/15

Recommended oils for your savage
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1344471565

… I’m not sure which problem is MY problem, what can I do to diagnose this?  I've attached a photo, and I'll provide any information or photos requested.


#2 :  Wisconsin Savage / Motorcycle enthusiasts

Can anyone point me to some good folk here in Wisconsin? Especially Savage owners? Even better - someone who'd be willing to take me through some of these mechanical issues and teach me what's up? Maybe take some cash in return?

#3.   Can someone put me in touch with Verslagen1?

I want to buy some of his parts.


Thanks,
BB
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norm92de
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Re: Restore my Liberty!  Oil+Overheating+Power los
Reply #1 - 08/24/16 at 09:47:18
 
Verslsgen is a good place to start!

You can easily find him on this site. Smiley
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MirageJack
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Re: Restore my Liberty!  Oil+Overheating+Power los
Reply #2 - 08/24/16 at 11:42:44
 
okay! so I dove in!

I'm reading off this thread... trying to fix that oil leak.
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1461042895/2#2

Now - Check the photo : I cant get that nut on the right off, which if I read Gizzo's post correctly, could very well be the source of my leak.

On this chart http://suzukisavage.com/yabb2.2/Attachments/CylinderHead01web.jpg
I'm pretty certain the nut you see... and the now removed one on the left...  are #23 Nut and #25 Washer..  although it only pictures one in the chart ... I see two...

Any tips for loosing this nut? It is ON THERE! Is the remaining one pictured the one with the oil gallery?

Also, what is dave talking about in that thread? There seems to be two different nuts in question.

Thanks, Brent
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Tocsik
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Re: Restore my Liberty!  Oil+Overheating+Power los
Reply #3 - 08/24/16 at 12:59:58
 
Pretty sure Dave is just talking about the nut up inside the cavity below the exhaust port.
Same as mine here:
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1455464250/7#7

Not sure about loosening that other nut.
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Re: Restore my Liberty!  Oil+Overheating+Power los
Reply #4 - 08/24/16 at 14:09:42
 
STOP!!!!

YOU'RE ABOUT TO F'UP BIG TIME!

The nut on the left holds the head.  Not the cover.  You need further assistance at this point.  (I would probably put it back, torque it to spec and hope I don't blow a head gasket.).

The bolts you need to remove are the smaller ones.  You use a 10mm wrench/socket on them.  Go back and read the instructions again.


MirageJack wrote on 08/24/16 at 11:42:44:
okay! so I dove in!

I'm reading off this thread... trying to fix that oil leak.
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1461042895/2#2

Now - Check the photo : I cant get that nut on the right off, which if I read Gizzo's post correctly, could very well be the source of my leak.

On this chart http://suzukisavage.com/yabb2.2/Attachments/CylinderHead01web.jpg
I'm pretty certain the nut you see... and the now removed one on the left...  are #23 Nut and #25 Washer..  although it only pictures one in the chart ... I see two...

Any tips for loosing this nut? It is ON THERE! Is the remaining one pictured the one with the oil gallery?

Also, what is dave talking about in that thread? There seems to be two different nuts in question.

Thanks, Brent

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MirageJack
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Re: Restore my Liberty!  Oil+Overheating+Power los
Reply #5 - 08/24/16 at 14:47:22
 
Well, that's a little disheartening.

I don't have a wrench that reads torque.

In fact, I don't know what the heck to do at this point. I'm definitely not taking off the cover.

So, ...  
****!
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Re: Restore my Liberty!  Oil+Overheating+Power los
Reply #6 - 08/24/16 at 18:15:21
 
So......why did you start! You really need someone who knows bikes to help you ,you should have cleaned all the oil of the motor and then restarted it to find the sorce of the leak ,your pic gives us no idea of how to advise you. You should do as Ohiomoto  said ,if the only head bolt you took off is the one pictured you should be ok . but you willhave to take of the top cover to get to the  leaking plug ,it 's  above the head bolt in the area behind the exhaust . but under the cover. If you don't want to take off the cover you should buy lots of oil and wear plastic rain pants.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Restore my Liberty!  Oil+Overheating+Power los
Reply #7 - 08/24/16 at 21:24:33
 
I have Tools, and tons of them, but all the tools will do is make it possible wscrew stuff up, UNLESS I Also have
Information.
You Must Have a maintenance manual.
There is a link to one, or buy a hard copy,but they are pricey.

The mileage is pushing time to look at the cam chain.
That usually wrecks the engine if it gets away.

Unless you Know what you're doing, don't just start taking stuff apart.
Know before you lay tools on it what you're taking apart.
Know how many bolts/nuts hold it together.
Since the bolts are various lengths on the head cover, draw an outline o n cardboard, put an X where each bolt goes, slice them, poke bolts in.
No
Puzzle to assemble.

Same thing with the side covers.
They have oil sealing washers in a few places.

For new mechanics..

When removing something that is held on by a bunch of skinny little bolts that a 10mm socket fits and suddenly you need a Much Bigger Socket, you May have just stopped working on what you originally had in mind.

Hang on, go slow,
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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cheapnewb24
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Re: Restore my Liberty!  Oil+Overheating+Power los
Reply #8 - 08/24/16 at 22:16:29
 
Well... Here's some of my experience with torque wrenches. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1471280516 Grin

I warn you:
This is the stuff THEY don't want you to read.
I could get in trouble for this....  
It's dangerous stuff that newbies shouldn't read.
WARNING! WARNING! Your bike might spontaneously explode after reading the information in this link.
 Grin

But... Seriously... You probably need a torque wrench. My Dad completely destroyed an old flat-head Kohler twin (Simplicity garden tractor) one time. I believe we chalked it up at least partly to his not using a torque wrench as he didn't have a suitable one. He had just rebuilt it and was breaking it in and showing it off to the diesel mechanic neighbor. Neighbor remarked at how quiet it was... Petted it the whole time there. Coming back, he revved it up... and POW! went both rods and the camshaft too! Shocked

Get a beam type if you want a cheap one and you're willing to learn how to use it. Beware of cheap or poorly-maintained clicker torque wrenches. I'm not going to tell you to put anti-seize on that head nut.... I'm just asking the "pros" around here if you should... Wink Using anti-seize when it's not called for can cause problems.

But, yeah, there's a risk of blowing the head gasket. I wonder if you can get it torqued close enough to the others not to cause a problem...  Undecided What about a cheap vs expensive wrench... Undecided

You don't want to take any more loose and risk breaking the seal, though... Those head gaskets cost about 36 bucks a pop.

And, yeah, what he said. Wink Make sure you go slow, have your wits, get plenty of sleep. One screw-up is all it takes to lead to a lot more time, money, effort, and frustration down the drain.
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« Last Edit: 08/24/16 at 23:26:15 by cheapnewb24 »  

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cheapnewb24
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Re: Restore my Liberty!  Oil+Overheating+Power los
Reply #9 - 08/24/16 at 22:36:23
 
Here's a link to the torque specs list. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1098848534 Interestingly, it's the same list I used with my ill-fated sprocket bolts. Roll Eyes

It looks like a reputable beam wrench is gonna cost about 20 bucks. http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=torque+wrench+3%2F8&_sop=12&_osacat=0&_f...

Of course... You can go a little cheaper... but...

In case you can't already tell, I'm considered the village idiot around here, so my advice unqualified is... well... unqualified. Roll Eyes  Wink


But... Don't worry... Be happy...  Cheesy You got this. You may still be able to fix this before it runs into serious money. Waiting a few days for a 20 dollar wrench is not the end of the world. Just take a look at what I've been through.  Roll Eyes http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1468203484/0 That doesn't include the tire change fiasco. Grin http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1460257986/0

Just don't let your guard down... Remember Murphy's Law? Undecided
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Re: Restore my Liberty!  Oil+Overheating+Power los
Reply #10 - 08/25/16 at 03:29:28
 
Go to Harbor freight and get a torque 3/8" torque wrench,  they're cheap
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Re: Restore my Liberty!  Oil+Overheating+Power los
Reply #11 - 08/25/16 at 05:37:15
 
Well... This morning... I look at your threads.... and its actually a little funny Grin that you start taking off the head in order to try to fix an oil leak.

I think this is one time when trying to decipher the book made you screw up. Take a look at where that nut is... It's below the valve cover gasket. What does that tell you? What is it most likely to be holding down? --The head.

That's like relying on a bad torque wrench to tell you when to stop tightening. It never clicks (clicker type), and you go till you wring it off. Shocked (well, strip it out anyway Wink) It's not necessarily because you're dumb... It's because you were relying on the torque wrench too much, and it let you down. You were relying on the chart to tell you what went where and not actually looking at the bike in front of you and figuring it out naturally. It's a trap. Mind your intuition. If something seems off or concerning... stop and think about it. Don't get impatient and keep plowing throw the mire.

Now, there is some talk that you might not have a book... You were just using a visual you got online. With that in mind, you probably could have used a book.You would have had more information you could have used it to figure out where the headbolts were... possibly....??? --and avoided them.... Huh Personally, I lately have not managed to find my Clymer book... It's somewhere. Undecided And I'm in the process of putting the whole engine back in the bike!!! and the rear wheel/shocks/belt (chain conversion) drive too!!! I've almost got it stripped to the frame except for the front end and trim. Shocked I not only don't have the book handy, I have to find all my bolts. Shocked Crazy, ain't it?

When you got SuzukiSavage.com, who needs a book!?  Grin (Just kidding... you are supposed to have a book. Don't you know you gotta have a book!!!! :cough: must...please...mighty...elders :cough: )

The clymer book is sometimes wrong, though. Roll Eyes Grin

Back to the other funny part...  Grin Why were you removing stuff? You can sometimes fix leaks by simply tightening things. Were you trying to remove the valve covers in order to do the head plug repair? Valve cover gasket??? Just taking it apart to see what's going on???  Huh Again, notice where the gasket is in relation to those nuts. Also... notice that there was no oil around the nut you removed... very dry.... It probably ain't leakin' from there.

I take it that you may have been looking for the leaky nut syndrome or something similar??? Look at this...http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1455464250/7#7 Now those nuts are confusing too. Before I knew better, I wondered if those things were head bolts or something. If you'll read down in the replies, I had a similar situation with mine. Drove it for a while with the nut completely gone. Just went to the dealership...They gave me a replacement... borrowed a wrench and put that little sucker on myself right there.

Those are the nuts that leak.

But... Don't feel bad... You still got this. Wink Just don't screw up anymore.
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Re: Restore my Liberty!  Oil+Overheating+Power los
Reply #12 - 08/25/16 at 06:00:32
 
Hi Brent. My memory's a little hazy and I'm at work so can't run out and look, but that head stud looks like the one with the oil gallery. See how the hole seems way oversize compared with the stud that goes through it. that space is where t the oil runs. Try annealing the copper washer, cleaning the area right up and reassemble it with a smear of rtv on the washer. If you don't have a torque wrench, just do it up pretty tight. Not crazy tight. A torque wrench is obviously better. If you want to take that other nut off and it's as tight as you imply, you might want to grab a single hex or flank drive socket before the nut rounds off. That nut really should undo without needing heat.
Re the running hot and lacking power: try running it with the muffler off. Maybe a baffle has broken free and its blocking the exhaust. Simple things first  Wink
Good luck mate. Don't panic, you haven't messed anything up yet.
And try a new spark plug, too.
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Re: Restore my Liberty!  Oil+Overheating+Power los
Reply #13 - 08/25/16 at 06:23:54
 
I'm in WI and have moderate skills and some tools but I'm south of Milwaukee so we're still not that close.

I'd definitely start by putting things back together, cleaning the bike very well, and checking to see for sure where the leak is coming from.

I highly recommend this stuff for cleaning a bike, especially when there is oil or grease involved. It works very well and leaves no residues like Simple Green does.  

S100 Total Cycle Cleaner
https://www.amazon.com/S100-12001B-Total-Cleaner-Bottle/dp/B000WJX6IM/ref=sr_...
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Re: Restore my Liberty!  Oil+Overheating+Power los
Reply #14 - 08/25/16 at 08:09:08
 
MirageJack wrote on 08/24/16 at 14:47:22:
Well, that's a little disheartening.

I don't have a wrench that reads torque.

In fact, I don't know what the heck to do at this point. I'm definitely not taking off the cover.

So, ...  
****!



You don't have to give up.  You'll never learn that way. Mechanical work starts out as 50% common sense, 50% having proper information.   The more experience you get, the less of the other two you'll need.

You just need a manual and it would help if you have a friend to help out.  Google and YouTube are your fiends.  Use them.  You might not find a video of this repair on this motorcycle but you'll probably find one that is similar.  

More importantly, look at what you are doing and ask yourself the following questions:  How did it go together? What is it's purpose?  What's the worse thing I can do?

Better yet, ask us first.
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