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New Tire Choices (Read 3430 times)
Dave
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Re: New Tire Choices
Reply #135 - 05/10/23 at 03:28:49
 
It is a bad idea to add a tube to a tubeless tire.

Tubeless tires deflate slower and give you some warning of the tire going flat - while tires with an inner tube can have sudden loss of air if the tube blows.

As bad as that tear looks - it is likely just in the tread rubber and did not go through the tread plies....which are pretty tough.

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och
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Re: New Tire Choices
Reply #136 - 05/10/23 at 04:54:46
 
Dave wrote on 05/10/23 at 03:28:49:
It is a bad idea to add a tube to a tubeless tire.

Tubeless tires deflate slower and give you some warning of the tire going flat - while tires with an inner tube can have sudden loss of air if the tube blows.

As bad as that tear looks - it is likely just in the tread rubber and did not go through the tread plies....which are pretty tough.



It did go through the threads, so the loss of pressure was very much sudden. Luckily it happened a block from where I work, so I pushed it to my shop and then loaded it to my van and brought it to my mechanic.

Regarding the tube within a tubeless tire, I think a lot of offroad guys do it, not sure for what purpose.
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Re: New Tire Choices
Reply #137 - 05/10/23 at 10:28:08
 
[quote author=69656E060 link=1448021014/135#136 date=1683719686]Dave wrote on 05/10/23 at 03:28:49:
Regarding the tube within a tubeless tire, I think a lot of offroad guys do it, not sure for what purpose.


Likely because they run very low air pressure for traction...and it is easy to push the bead loose from the rim - which would allow the air to escape.  With a tube the air is contained (unless you puncture the tube).

Tubeless tires are safer......that is why most modern vehicles use tubeless tires.  Dirt bikes use tubes as the spoked wheels are more durable are resilient for the impact loads the bikes endure.......and the spoke nipples perforating the rims require tubes (Some bikes like the BMW and Moto Guzzi off road bikes use spoked wheels with tubeless tires....they do that by having the spoke holes outside the rim).
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och
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Re: New Tire Choices
Reply #138 - 05/10/23 at 19:06:24
 
[quote author=78434E5948445F59424A47582B0 link=1448021014/135#137 date=1683739688]och wrote on 05/10/23 at 04:54:46:
Dave wrote on 05/10/23 at 03:28:49:
Regarding the tube within a tubeless tire, I think a lot of offroad guys do it, not sure for what purpose.


Likely because they run very low air pressure for traction...and it is easy to push the bead loose from the rim - which would allow the air to escape.  With a tube the air is contained (unless you puncture the tube).

Tubeless tires are safer......that is why most modern vehicles use tubeless tires.  Dirt bikes use tubes as the spoked wheels are more durable are resilient for the impact loads the bikes endure.......and the spoke nipples perforating the rims require tubes (Some bikes like the BMW and Moto Guzzi off road bikes use spoked wheels with tubeless tires....they do that by having the spoke holes outside the rim).


My KTM 690 Supermoto uses spoked wheels with tubeless tires, and the spoke holes are inside the rim. Many people with these bikes switch them to tubeless hybrid/offroad tires, and add a tube. I guess this is to be able to run very low pressures, like you said.


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Re: New Tire Choices
Reply #139 - 05/11/23 at 09:40:25
 
Och, I've wondered that myself. I only have one motorcycle with tubeless tires.
I almost put tubes in the last time I changed rubber.

Glad your no worse for wear over the deal~
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och
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Re: New Tire Choices
Reply #140 - 05/11/23 at 09:50:05
 
I'm just wondering over the general logic of tubed vs tubeless tires.

I am thinking tubeless tires are clearly safer than tubed tires - they are more modern, durable, etc.

However, if a tubeless tire is used in combination with a tube, wouldn't that be an extra layer of protection? I can kind of see it going both ways.
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Re: New Tire Choices
Reply #141 - 05/11/23 at 17:07:43
 
[quote author=5F64697E6F63787E656D607F0C0 link=1448021014/135#137 date=1683739688]och wrote on 05/10/23 at 04:54:46:
Dave wrote on 05/10/23 at 03:28:49:
Regarding the tube within a tubeless tire, I think a lot of offroad guys do it, not sure for what purpose.


Likely because they run very low air pressure for traction...and it is easy to push the bead loose from the rim - which would allow the air to escape.  With a tube the air is contained (unless you puncture the tube).

Tubeless tires are safer......that is why most modern vehicles use tubeless tires.  Dirt bikes use tubes as the spoked wheels are more durable are resilient for the impact loads the bikes endure.......and the spoke nipples perforating the rims require tubes (Some bikes like the BMW and Moto Guzzi off road bikes use spoked wheels with tubeless tires....they do that by having the spoke holes outside the rim).


This is interesting Dave, I've not seen this arrangement on any wheel. I don't claim to study wheels tho.
I know my Beamer is the only bike I have with tubeless tires. That is the bike I considered putting tubes in but, as usual, I thought they may not have tubes in for a reason other than just because there are no spokes to contend with. Undecided
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Re: New Tire Choices
Reply #142 - 05/12/23 at 19:09:21
 
I worked at a K-Mart automotive department in the 80s.  I remember them stocking various automobile tubes for those people who couldn't find it in themselves to trust tubeless tires or wanted to squeeze a few more miles out of some junk tire.  I highly doubt tube type car tires were still being sold at that time.  Maybe they were still sold for trailers.  Who knows?

och wrote on 05/10/23 at 04:54:46:
Dave wrote on 05/10/23 at 03:28:49:
It is a bad idea to add a tube to a tubeless tire.

Tubeless tires deflate slower and give you some warning of the tire going flat - while tires with an inner tube can have sudden loss of air if the tube blows.

As bad as that tear looks - it is likely just in the tread rubber and did not go through the tread plies....which are pretty tough.



It did go through the threads, so the loss of pressure was very much sudden. Luckily it happened a block from where I work, so I pushed it to my shop and then loaded it to my van and brought it to my mechanic.

Regarding the tube within a tubeless tire, I think a lot of offroad guys do it, not sure for what purpose.

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Re: New Tire Choices
Reply #143 - 05/12/23 at 19:13:43
 
Isn't 10 years the most we can expect from a motorcycle tire regardless of mileage?  The 2012 S40 I bought last November with only 850 miles on it had 2011 vintage tires on it.  They seemed quite stiff and not at all grippy.  I realize tires that sit for years may age differently than those that have a few miles put on them now and then.  The older I get, the more paranoid I am about basing tire life on how nice the tread looks.

ThumperPaul wrote on 05/06/23 at 16:42:41:
The stock IRCs lasted 17 years on a 2006 I bought last year.   I recently replaced with Dunlop D404s in January.  The Dunlops are very nice for the price. I have no idea on mileage and longevity.  You thinking about taking a 20,000 mile road trip?  Not familiar with the Continental for bikes, but they were way overpriced for my truck. Never really liked the ones on another truck either. Wet traction was poor and they were done after about 50k on a 70k warranty.

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Re: New Tire Choices
Reply #144 - 05/18/23 at 07:06:52
 
On my KTM I caught a piece of metal in my rear tire last week. My mechanic put a brand new tire and I picked the bike up last Friday. Come today, I caught a screw in the brand new tire much to my frustration. My mechanic says he doesn't patch tires for insurance reasons, but he can put a tube in there - which brings me back to the original dilemma.

I am thinking if he puts the tube and if I should catch a screw or anything else that may puncture both layers - shouldn't the tubeless tire still prevent sudden pressure loss?
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Re: New Tire Choices
Reply #145 - 05/18/23 at 08:36:57
 
do not put a tube in a tire with a puncture, water can wick through the cords and cause it to rot and come apart later on.
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Re: New Tire Choices
Reply #146 - 05/18/23 at 09:27:48
 
Tubeless tires are built with a wider shoulder that can seal on the "tubeless rims".....which have a shoulder built into them.  With the valve stem sealed to the rim the air is retained.  Generally when there is a screw or nail or some other puncture where the object is small and stays in place - the air is released slowly and it may take days or weeks for the air loss to become apparent.  The tire bead stays on the rim by the aid of the raised lip where the tire bead is.  If the object that caused the puncture does in and then out.....as if you ran over a board with a nail in it, the air runs out faster but may still take minutes/hours/days to become apparent.

Tires with tubes are more likely to have a "blowout" where the air loss is sudden.  The inner tube is very much like a thick balloon, and when it is punctured it can "pop" just like a balloon does.  This sudden release of air can be very dangerous and cause you to lose control.....you can't steer or brake well with a flat tire.  Also the tubed rims don't have the safety bead to help hold the tire on the rim.

However - not every puncture on a tube tire results in a blowout, and most times you will get a slow air loss and notice the problem long before it causes you to crash!  Motorcycles have been using tubes for more than a hundred years, and a large number of new motorcycles still have tubes in the tires.  The one big advantage of a tubeless tire is that it can be patched with a "plug" while still on the wheel - and there are numerous kits that will allow you to do this while out riding.

I can understand dealers not wanting to "patch" a tubeless tire for liability reasons - however plugs and interior patches can work just fine.  I got a screw puncture in the rear tire on my R1200 when the tire only had 100 miles on it.....the hole was just about in the center of the tread.  I patched it with a rubber mushroom plug and rode the tire until is was worn out and it worked just fine.  The one "universal" believe is that you should never patch a hole in the sidewall.
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