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Cam chain - Replacement (Read 673 times)
DragBikeMike
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Re: Cam chain - Replacement
Reply #15 - 07/08/20 at 15:56:47
 
Once you are sure that it is timed correctly, I suggest you rotate the engine through several more times and recheck timing.  I always check it several times to make sure its right.

If you are sure the timing is correct, you can reassemble the engine.

Then, once the engine is all back together, I suggest you rotate the engine through at least four complete revolutions to make sure that no valves are hitting the piston.  Then, adjust all the valves to .004" clearance and check it again by rotating the engine at least four complete revolutions.  If you encounter any resistance, stop and check.  Make sure no valves are hitting.  Always double & triple check.  When an irresistible force meets an immovable object, bad things usually happen.

Good luck.
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RocketScienceSmurf
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Re: Cam chain - Replacement
Reply #16 - 07/08/20 at 22:09:16
 
@JoG and DragBikeMike

I can't thank you enough. Those pics are invaluable and the step by step description will hopefully get me through it.

I have both side covers off and a friend helped me make a tool to loosen the plug on the generator side so I can check the timing marking. I did put the piston at TDC before I re-attached the cylinder head but I did not know it was possible to lock it in position to keep it there.

I did manage to get the timing dents on the sprocket and crank shaft aligned. When I first got the timing chain in place I did so with the cam sprocket loose and when I was attaching it to the cam shaft I first put one of the bolts in just a few turns and then tried to turn the engine to get to the other bolt but something gut stuck and I could't turn it in either direction. I think I heard a small "ping" when I forced the engine backwards and I noticed the first cam sprocket bolt had  rubbed against the side of the cylinder head. I screwed in a few mor turns by hand and then everything went smooth. Is there any risk of damage to the engine?

I will give it a new go today and take more pictures as I try to follow DragBikeMike's instructions
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LANCER
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Re: Cam chain - Replacement
Reply #17 - 07/09/20 at 02:11:27
 
You are fine as long as there was no aluminum broken off when the bolt contacted it and fell into the bottom of the engine.
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Re: Cam chain - Replacement
Reply #18 - 07/09/20 at 12:32:34
 
Here is a picture of the aligned drive sprocket. I think I got this part sorted out OK.
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Re: Cam chain - Replacement
Reply #19 - 07/09/20 at 12:38:33
 
Here is a picture of the marking seen through the hole in the engine cover. It's fairly aligned but maybe not 100%. Problem is when I double checked with an aluminium rod inserted through the spark plug hole it is no where near TDC. It's roughly half travel away from TDC!? Should I trust a thingy inserted through the spark plug over the marking? And how can the marking be so incredibly off??
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Re: Cam chain - Replacement
Reply #20 - 07/09/20 at 12:46:02
 
One other question. I have read on several places to make sure I check TDC on a compression cycle. If I don't have any valves or cam shaft involved is there really a difference between compression and exhaust cycle? Isn't that determined by the cam shaft and opening of the valves? And if so - can't I just make sure the lobes of the cam shaft are both facing downwards as in the picture?
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Re: Cam chain - Replacement
Reply #21 - 07/09/20 at 12:58:16
 
DragBikeMike wrote on 07/08/20 at 15:45:11:
Now, walk the chain on the cam sprocket one tooth at a time.   There should be enough slack in the chain to bunch up the chain one-tooth at a time and walk the successive links over the sprocket.  You may have to go from the forward side of the sprocket toward the rear, or the rear side of the sprocket toward the front.  It will depend on if the cam is retarded or advanced.

This shows how you bunch up the chain.  You just pull out the first link and reinsert it one tooth up.  Even though its in the engine and the camshaft is installed, there will be enough slack as long as the cam chain tensioner has been removed.  It's tight but there should be enough slack.


Thank you so much DBM! It worked GREAT! I can't tell you how relieved I was when was able to move the chain to correct the timing.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Cam chain - Replacement
Reply #22 - 07/09/20 at 17:10:53
 
Whoah!  Kamel, you do NOT have your TDC marks lined up.  STOP, STOP, STOP.  Do not try to start.

The timing mark on the crankshaft is not paint.  It is a linear mark embossed in the end of the alternator rotor.  You are using a paint mark on the bolt, which can end up positioned just about anywhere.  You must use the linear mark stamped into the end of the alternator rotor.

You can barely see the correct mark circled in red.  It's not lined up.  You are about eighty degrees off.
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Kamelryttarns_Timing_Marks_markup2.png

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DragBikeMike
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Re: Cam chain - Replacement
Reply #23 - 07/09/20 at 17:15:20
 
Does this help?  Can you see it here in this photo?
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Cam chain - Replacement
Reply #24 - 07/09/20 at 17:34:03
 
Regarding your question about TDC compression vs TDC exhaust.  If you try to install the head cover with the cam set to TDC exhaust, the cam lobes will be facing up and you will be struggling trying to get the head cover on.  It will be forcing the rocker arms into the cam lobes and valves, trying to open valves.

You are correct, you want the cam lobes facing down when you go to install the head cover.  The cam lobes should be facing down and the marks on the cam should be aligned with the horizontal sealing surface.  It should look like the picture below.  Also, when correctly positioned, the dowel for the cam sprocket will be in the 1 O' clock position, as shown in my prior photo of correctly aligned cam timing marks.

That reservoir directly below the cam lobes must be filled with oil prior to starting the engine.  It can be easily filled with a pump oil can through the exhaust valve access cover.

My compliments on cleanliness.  Very nice job of keeping things spic & span.
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Re: Cam chain - Replacement
Reply #25 - 07/09/20 at 22:47:23
 
Thanks again. I am nowhere near starting the engine yet. That is probably weeks or even months in the future. I need to get this right so I don't destroy anything.

About the oil i the reservoir... I had an idea... Since my engine is out of the frame, couldn't I use the crank case breather to add the new oil to the engine? Wouldn't that properly flood the whole valve cover? My plan was to open the oil fill cap in the engine cover to let the air out and add a funnel to a hose connected to the crank case breather and pour the oil in from above making sure everything in the top end of the motor is properly lubricated before even trying to turn anything in the motor by hand much less start it.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Cam chain - Replacement
Reply #26 - 07/10/20 at 01:31:36
 
Do you understand the caution note I last posted?  Do you now see the correct timing mark?  I don't want you to damage your engine.

Regarding pouring oil in the breather to pre-lube the top end.  The crankcase breather actually ties directly in to your bottom end.  Any oil you pour into the breather will just run straight down this cavity into the bottom end.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Cam chain - Replacement
Reply #27 - 07/10/20 at 12:11:53
 
Don't forget
The scrubby thing in the head
The upside down corner bolt
It's fine to very slowly and carefully torquing bolts. A thumb on a 1/4" ratchet head, using fingers to bring the handle in, not a fist, and a forearm,,
Feel the bolts tightening, and if you're running through the pattern for the third time and you grab a bolt that doesn't wanna turn, don't turn it.. go on to the next one in the pattern.

If it's unknown territory, there is nothing wrong with buying a few bolts, and nuts, long enough to have the same length of non threaded area, drill holes and set up a test, see what it feels like to torque bolts, twist a couple off, see what that feels like,,

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Re: Cam chain - Replacement
Reply #28 - 07/10/20 at 12:35:36
 
@DBM: Yes I think I understand where to check the TDC position. I will try it again tomorrow and veryfing wih my aluminium rod through the spark plug hole again just to make sure.

@JoG: I invested in not one but two torque wrenches. They came with calibration protocols so I think I can trust that they are fairly accurate. They cover 4-20Nm and 25-125Nm. I have never before done any mechanical work so my experience and "feel" for the correct torque is zero.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Cam chain - Replacement
Reply #29 - 07/10/20 at 15:14:02
 
Then spend a few bucks, set up a test, get the feel on something that doesn't matter, before you grab stuff that really matters.
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