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Why the Gun is Civilization (Read 205 times)
LostArtist
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Re: Why the Gun is Civilization
Reply #15 - 02/09/13 at 11:15:41
 
LANCER wrote on 02/09/13 at 03:02:41:
LostArtist wrote on 02/08/13 at 18:35:16:
the gun equals force, deadly force, implied deadly force, it does NOT remove force from the equation, it at best, if both people have a gun of equal capability, it can equalize the force making reason the remaining factor to decide the situation but only after the force has been equalized by the gun, it takes the persuasion to the top where force is needed then because neither person has the upper hand, then persuasion is resumed, and then, there's still the threat that the other person still wont' be persuaded and will use the implied force first and then you are still screwed, guns do NOT "civilize" a society


You are correct, a gun does not remove FORCE from the equation, but it does tend to equalize it.  Would you rather be equal or on the weaker side of a FORCE CONFRONTATION ?
Do you think if you are confronted by someone stronger & meaner than you (or a bunch of them) and are intent on hurting you, do you really think they are going to stop after just one punch ?  Don't be foolish dude, if they really want to hurt someone they will stomp you into the ground; near death likely, if not dead.
Do you think you will stop them through persuasion ?
They simply take that as a sign of weakness and will enjoy stomping you all the more.
We have animals in our society, and they ONLY thing they respect and will yield to is POWER.  


but it still comes down to who is more likely to use force first, that's why the cold war worked, Mutually Assured Destruction here, it takes all sense of respect from the persuasion aspect and replaces that respect with fear, how does fear affect your efforts or persuasion?  

oh and those "animals" they can get guns too so either way you end up on THEIR level, you are not civilizing society by the proliferation of guns
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Midnightrider
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Re: Why the Gun is Civilization
Reply #16 - 02/09/13 at 14:38:26
 
Our major cities are becoming uncivilised. Whats it gonna take to make them safe, reasoning? Ok you guys gotta cut this sh!t out. Or force, we'll drop your gangs in your tracks and you'll never see daylight again.
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LANCER
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Re: Why the Gun is Civilization
Reply #17 - 02/10/13 at 04:25:52
 
LostArtist wrote on 02/09/13 at 11:15:41:
LANCER wrote on 02/09/13 at 03:02:41:
LostArtist wrote on 02/08/13 at 18:35:16:
the gun equals force, deadly force, implied deadly force, it does NOT remove force from the equation, it at best, if both people have a gun of equal capability, it can equalize the force making reason the remaining factor to decide the situation but only after the force has been equalized by the gun, it takes the persuasion to the top where force is needed then because neither person has the upper hand, then persuasion is resumed, and then, there's still the threat that the other person still wont' be persuaded and will use the implied force first and then you are still screwed, guns do NOT "civilize" a society


You are correct, a gun does not remove FORCE from the equation, but it does tend to equalize it.  Would you rather be equal or on the weaker side of a FORCE CONFRONTATION ?
Do you think if you are confronted by someone stronger & meaner than you (or a bunch of them) and are intent on hurting you, do you really think they are going to stop after just one punch ?  Don't be foolish dude, if they really want to hurt someone they will stomp you into the ground; near death likely, if not dead.
Do you think you will stop them through persuasion ?
They simply take that as a sign of weakness and will enjoy stomping you all the more.
We have animals in our society, and they ONLY thing they respect and will yield to is POWER.  


but it still comes down to who is more likely to use force first, that's why the cold war worked, Mutually Assured Destruction here, it takes all sense of respect from the persuasion aspect and replaces that respect with fear, how does fear affect your efforts or persuasion?
MAD only works is both sides are RATIONAL
If a bad guy knows I have a weapon he will think about the risk before deciding whether to attack of not...it is all about ME protecting MYSELF.

 

oh and those "animals" they can get guns too so either way you end up on THEIR level, you are not civilizing society by the proliferation of guns
ahhh...the animals already have weapons......
In a confrontation I absolutely want to be on their level at least, if not several levels above.  Animals only respect power and if you don't have it then you are the next meal.

If these concepts do not make sense to you then YOU are on THEIR menu.

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mpescatori
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Re: Why the Gun is Civilization
Reply #18 - 02/12/13 at 00:03:13
 
Guns are merely the one technological step forward from the knife.

Next step, powder-propelled taser bullets ?

It's not (only) about how you handle street gangs and petty crime,. it's how you can work your economy in such a way there are better things to do than hang around with a life expectancy of 28 ...

Do we have street gangs here in Italy ? Yes, but they are not "gangs" by your definition, they are small groups of (un)armed Rumanians, Albanians, Ukrainians, Gypsies, and Italian petty thugs who live on a day-by-day basis.

They are dealt with by the Police, and sometimes a homeowner or jeweller will be armed and shoot (back).
By our laws, if the criminal is running, you cannot shoot him in the back, that's murder.
Sometimes it's organized crime who deals with street thugs.
As a sad anecdote...
Years ago arabic immigrants were roaming the streets, drinking, getting drunk, and being a general annoyance to the general public.
Then a team of three ganged upon a young chinese mother who was carrying her baby in her arms; they raped the woman and murdered both.
The cityfolk were livid and demanded proper measures to be taken; the Police investigated but the perpetrators, although more or less positively identified, were nowhere to be found.
They found them, alright, about ten days later, hanging by the wrists and cut to death in thin slices, in an almost ritual way; word of mouth had it was a chinese ritual killing, a rituial revenge.

The result?  The chinese were molested again, and the arabs suddenly started behaving.  Lips Sealed
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Maurizio Pescatori, Esq.
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LANCER
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Re: Why the Gun is Civilization
Reply #19 - 02/12/13 at 03:59:48
 
mpescatori wrote on 02/12/13 at 00:03:13:
Guns are merely the one technological step forward from the knife.

Next step, powder-propelled taser bullets ?

It's not (only) about how you handle street gangs and petty crime,. it's how you can work your economy in such a way there are better things to do than hang around with a life expectancy of 28 ...

Do we have street gangs here in Italy ? Yes, but they are not "gangs" by your definition, they are small groups of (un)armed Rumanians, Albanians, Ukrainians, Gypsies, and Italian petty thugs who live on a day-by-day basis.

They are dealt with by the Police, and sometimes a homeowner or jeweller will be armed and shoot (back).
By our laws, if the criminal is running, you cannot shoot him in the back, that's murder.
Sometimes it's organized crime who deals with street thugs.
As a sad anecdote...
Years ago arabic immigrants were roaming the streets, drinking, getting drunk, and being a general annoyance to the general public.
Then a team of three ganged upon a young chinese mother who was carrying her baby in her arms; they raped the woman and murdered both.
The cityfolk were livid and demanded proper measures to be taken; the Police investigated but the perpetrators, although more or less positively identified, were nowhere to be found.
They found them, alright, about ten days later, hanging by the wrists and cut to death in thin slices, in an almost ritual way; word of mouth had it was a chinese ritual killing, a rituial revenge.

The result?  The chinese were molested again, and the arabs suddenly started behaving.  Lips Sealed



CAUSE & EFFECT
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Paraquat
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Re: Why the Gun is Civilization
Reply #20 - 02/12/13 at 06:17:35
 
I see nothing wrong with this story.
You want to act like an animal you'll get treated like an animal.


--Steve
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Why the Gun is Civilization
Reply #21 - 02/12/13 at 06:55:33
 
If I have a gun, I can protect myself from animals,

BUT, the 2nd amendment wasnt about Hunting or self defense, since they were as taken for granted as breathing,
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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srinath
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Re: Why the Gun is Civilization
Reply #22 - 02/12/13 at 08:06:34
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 02/12/13 at 06:55:33:
If I have a gun, I can protect myself from animals,

BUT, the 2nd amendment wasnt about Hunting or self defense, since they were as taken for granted as breathing,



Correct JOG - the 2nd was to overthrow a tyrannical govt and to defend the country when suddenly attacked by a foreign power when in times of peace we didn't have a military.

Good story though.

Cool.
Srinath.
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srinath
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Re: Why the Gun is Civilization
Reply #23 - 02/12/13 at 18:00:12
 
Midnightrider wrote on 02/08/13 at 12:39:35:
Take our guns away and see how long our society remains civilised.



If you take all the guns away ... it will be very civilised ... except the gun nuts who are dependent on their gun cos they dont have a spine.

You take some of the guns away ... yea then you would not be vert civilised, the ones that lost the guns will be the weakest and the ones that need them the most.

For starters I wont even want the guns taken away. I would like to have all the guns and ammo very safely locked away so it wont get into the wrong hands. Nothing should get stolen, or pinched or get "lost" ... each bullet is a potential dead body.

Cool.
Srinath.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Why the Gun is Civilization
Reply #24 - 02/16/13 at 10:15:40
 
Im SICK of STUPID
EVERY OUNCE OF Statistical Data PROVES more guns in socioety & fewer rstrictions EQUALS Less Violent CRIME,, FBI stats Scream it, History Screams it
SHUT YOUR DUMB Ass up.
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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bill67
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Re: Why the Gun is Civilization
Reply #25 - 02/16/13 at 10:38:05
 
11 year old kids takes a gun to school to kill a girl,Now that is civilized,At its best.We need more guns so all the little kids have one.
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william h krumpen
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srinath
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Re: Why the Gun is Civilization
Reply #26 - 02/17/13 at 08:40:09
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 02/16/13 at 10:15:40:
Im SICK of STUPID
EVERY OUNCE OF Statistical Data PROVES more guns in socioety & fewer rstrictions EQUALS Less Violent CRIME,, FBI stats Scream it, History Screams it
SHUT YOUR DUMB Ass up.



That's BECAUSE nra HAS blocked ALL the DATA that SHOWS otherwise.

YOU need TO pull YOUR dumb HEAD out OF your STUPID a$$.

Cool.
Srinath.
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bill67
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Re: Why the Gun is Civilization
Reply #27 - 02/17/13 at 09:15:03
 
srinath wrote on 02/17/13 at 08:40:09:
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 02/16/13 at 10:15:40:
Im SICK of STUPID
EVERY OUNCE OF Statistical Data PROVES more guns in socioety & fewer rstrictions EQUALS Less Violent CRIME,, FBI stats Scream it, History Screams it
SHUT YOUR DUMB Ass up.



That's BECAUSE nra HAS blocked ALL the DATA that SHOWS otherwise.

YOU need TO pull YOUR dumb HEAD out OF your STUPID a$$.

Cool.
Srinath.

+1
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william h krumpen
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srinath
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Re: Why the Gun is Civilization
Reply #28 - 02/17/13 at 16:00:04
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 02/16/13 at 10:15:40:
Im SICK of STUPID
EVERY OUNCE OF Statistical Data PROVES more guns in socioety & fewer rstrictions EQUALS Less Violent CRIME,, FBI stats Scream it, History Screams it
SHUT YOUR DUMB Ass up.



Alright - you fool -

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2012/12/gun_violence...

OK yea slate is a librull rag ... OK fine look it up yourself.

Cool.
Srinath.
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Midnightrider
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Re: Why the Gun is Civilization
Reply #29 - 02/17/13 at 16:40:59
 
Domestic violence and mental illness causes white people to go off the deep end and start shooting. Drugs and gang violence causes Latinos and Blacks to start shooting. Thats the way it is period. No law is gonna change it.
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"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing"
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