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RECOMMENDED OILS AND BOOSTERS (Read 6250 times)
Oldfeller--FSO
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Re: RECOMMENDED OILS AND BOOSTERS
Reply #15 - 08/09/12 at 12:13:27
 
rl153 wrote on 08/09/12 at 12:02:34:
I just bought some redline to add to my Rot T-6. It can't do any harm to add 1 oz to the oil ,can it?


Not by me, I'm on my second bottle now and I haven't had slippage or any other symptoms  .....

...... other than going to Dragon Run after Dragon Run and riding the bike all the way to and from them after leaving everybody there except BigZuk behind year after year.  

Including one slightly dead sportster I am accused of having killed maliciously.   Btw, Dave's bike was already dead when he showed up, so I am innocent on that one.   And although I cooked the bacon and burned the toast, I am innocent about the dog, too.   MM served up the deadly toast to the puppies (and we thought he was being nice, like he always is).

Fall possums, not so much.   It is a shared responsibility since I am TRYING to miss them but they double back and into the tires.   Did you know a fat possum pops jest like a water balloon when you hit him sideways with your front tire at mountain cruising speeds?  

YUK. Possum guts everywhere.  Possums stink too.

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Re: RECOMMENDED OILS AND BOOSTERS
Reply #16 - 08/09/12 at 12:17:14
 
PS: I just called and spoke with the Rislone folks ( spoke with Fred). per Fred: Do not use with a wet clutch as it does contain friction modifiers not compatible with wet clutches.

I asked if they offered ANY product that both boosted ZDDP and did not contain friction modifiers. Answer: NO.

There you go folks.
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Re: RECOMMENDED OILS AND BOOSTERS
Reply #17 - 08/09/12 at 12:27:39
 
I see a pattern developing here, we can't buy good spec'd oils locally any more, but Amazon carries all of them at prices that are a lot less than we have been used to seeing.   If you have a Amazon Prime account, shipping can be cheap on the Amazon warehouse stocked stuff as well.  

And lots of us already have Amazon Prime accounts to get the very good free TV and movie streaming that comes with the free shipping (prime is $79 a year with specials for $59 all the time -- it is a lot cheaper than Netflicks or Hulu when thought of as a yearly total fee)

I bet the Savage nation is gonna become an Amazon nation pretty durn quick-like.

Smiley

Bill, perk up there buddy, no snoozing on the job.   What is the price per quart of of the correct Klotz on Amazon.com and can you get it into the barn for less than $12 a quart that way, shipping included.
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Re: RECOMMENDED OILS AND BOOSTERS
Reply #18 - 08/09/12 at 12:54:21
 

This thread will be edited as new motorcycle oils are discovered that meet the following criteria:


RECOMMENDATION FOR LOCAL PURHASE RULES:

1)   JASO MA rated  (we ignore JASO MA2 and JASO MB as they don't really apply to the Savage motorcycle)
2)   Locally available at Advance Auto Parts, Autozone, O'Reilly, or Walmart.
3)   Contain a minimum of 1,200 ppm of ZDDP (or have more)
4)   Contains no moly or other energy star compounds to make your clutch slip
5)   Reasonable cost, less than $8.00 a quart for the dino products and less than $12 a quart for the synthetic products.
6)  A history of successful list use in the Savage motorcycle.

We will also list the Recommended ZDDP boosters that the mgf. recommends for use in wet clutch motorcycle engines.   Most of these wet clutch friendly ZDDP boosters will require you to internet order them as they are not stocked locally.  

Please note:  Lucas ZDDP booster which is stocked locally is not recommended by Lucas for use in wet clutch motorcycle engines.  Ditto for Rislone ZDDP booster, Rislone won't recommend it for wet clutch motorcycle engines.

There is still debate as to the true needed ZDDP level for getting the best life out of the antique Savage cam and split fork rocker tappet system.  The current debated number is somewhere between 1,200 and 1,500 ppm of ZDDP with only the lesser number being available locally in a oil product without requiring the use of a mail order ZDDP booster.

The key thing here is for you to use the recommended high ZDDP oils (and ZDDP booster if you think you need it) as all of the currently bottled locally available "motorcycle oils" have abandoned the old Savage engine and are now formulated to meet the needs of catalytic converter equipped fuel injected motorcycles.  

Not following these recommendations may shorten the service life of your valve train and your valve guides.


So far the Recommended list for local purchase stands at:

                     (pricing comes from Walmart)


Dino        -- Rotella T Triple Protection 15W40           $12.99 a gallon  
                                                                            ($3.25 a quart)

Synthetic -- Rotella T-6 5W40                                   $21.99 a gallon
                                                                            ($5.50 a quart)


We will add more oils as they become available and prove out by VOA and list testing.


ZDDP boosters        

Redline Break In ZDDP Booster    $14.95 for 16 ounces

Free Amazon Prime shipping at   http://www.amazon.com/Redline-81403-Engine-Break-In-Additive/dp/B00881GELC/re...





NEW LISTING:   AMAZON.COM PRIME (FREE SHIPPING) OILS)


We realize folks are going to have to get on line to source Savage compatible oils and AMAZON.COM has the best prices seen so far,  so we list the appropriate Amazon oils here along with a notation if they are able to be shipped for free under Prime.   We also know this Prime free shipping comes and goes according to whether there is stock on hand at your nearest Amazon owned warehouse, so PLEASE watch your shipping charges as you check out for any unplanned surprises.

AMAZON.COM Recommended oils and boosters


Redline Break In ZDDP Booster    $14.95 for 16 ounces    Free Amazon Prime shipping at   http://www.amazon.com/Redline-81403-Engine-Break-In-Additive/dp/B00881GELC/re...




(to save yourself hassles, please carry all questions to the following Rubber Side Down thread called "RECOMMENDED OILS AND BOOSTERS".  
This tread remains locked until edited by a moderator.

(link follows)     http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=13444714
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« Last Edit: 08/11/12 at 15:29:07 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: RECOMMENDED OILS AND BOOSTERS
Reply #19 - 08/09/12 at 13:49:38
 
This may have already been discussed ,but I want to ask, I read that adding zddp additives  to oil with no moly is ineffectual ,because the zinc needs moly to work ,is that true?
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Re: RECOMMENDED OILS AND BOOSTERS
Reply #20 - 08/09/12 at 14:39:38
 

Who said that turkey stuffin' stuff?    

Moly (organic or otherwise) is a relatively new addition to car motor oils, commonly denoted by energy star on the label, whose purpose was to increase mpg more than make the engine live or last longer.

ZDDP has been in use since the 50's and is the primary most effective anti-wear anti-galling, anti-oxidation additive that was ever put in engine oil.   It is a shame that cat converters don't like it ....

It has no dependency on moly (or vice versa) although they might fight for space at the outer chemical boundary zone of the auto's moving steel parts, when the moly gets wiped off by a friction touch then ZDDP will jump on the scraped bare spot and take its place and vice versa (they compete for the same boundary zone).  

Which one is quicker to jump on the bare spot, or which has more reserve troops in it's auto oil army I dunno, but I do know that moly makes wet clutches slip AND YOU DON"T WANT ANY IN YOUR BIKE OIL !!!!   And you shouldn't have any, so your question is sort moot, ain't it?
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Re: RECOMMENDED OILS AND BOOSTERS
Reply #21 - 08/09/12 at 15:53:50
 
A couple of possible options...
I don't know how well they fare with a wet clutch and didn't see anything in the product descriptions regarding that.  Right now I guess I'm glad I got a trial 6-month preferred customer account a few years ago and bought a bunch of the motorcycle specific stuff that had higher ZDDP levels.  I think I still have about 3 gallons left.  It'll last me a bit.


AMSOIL Z-ROD 10W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil




AMSOIL Z-ROD 20W-50 Synthetic Motor Oil
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Re: RECOMMENDED OILS AND BOOSTERS
Reply #22 - 08/09/12 at 16:20:54
 
Thanks OF. I'm adding some tomorrow.
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Re: RECOMMENDED OILS AND BOOSTERS
Reply #23 - 08/09/12 at 16:37:42
 
Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 08/09/12 at 11:36:41:
Pine wrote on 08/09/12 at 09:50:53:
Not sure if this is the proper place to post( if not pleasse delete)

Per the Redline web site, Oriely is a retail chain that stocks thier products.  I went to the local Orieley and and in-deed they do sell Redline products but not all products and not every store will stock the same mix of products.
The salemans was very nice and offered to buy a case of the Engine break in if I would supply him with the part number. Because i wanted something "right now" he offered some "Competition Cams" break in oil @ $18 ... but there was zero info on the container to make an informed decision. This was left over from a local engine builder. I then did buy some "Rislone Engine oil Supplement".  This is a normal stock item at all Oriely stores. Cost was $12.



If Redline is available locally at your local O'Reilly, it is worth checking out.  Redline uses big ZDDP numbers in each of their products, with the downside being that the majority of their products are RACING car products so please be careful which one you pick.   They do make motorcycle oil, but the likelyhood of that being at your local O'Reilly is pretty slim unless you make a deal with your local manager to stock it.

Like many of the specialty oils, you can order it from Amazon by the case.   It is pricey, but good -- similar to Royal Purple or Amisol in price at retail (a lot less in Amazon's reality though) but it is very pure in intention similar to Klotz (same color as a matter of fact).   I would not be surprised if similar base oils are used by the two companies.  

(and yes Bill, I just maybe mighta said something nice about Klotz in a sideways manner, but Redline publishes their contents, additives and ZDDP levels openly and Klotz doesn't)


http://www.amazon.com/Red-Line-42424-10W40-Motorcycle/dp/B0084DZ08W/ref=sr_1_...





So let's ignore the price and availability for a moment. Which one would you use? Redline bike oil or T-6?
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Re: RECOMMENDED OILS AND BOOSTERS
Reply #24 - 08/09/12 at 17:17:08
 
 
Amisol products are not sold locally or nor are they sold by Amazon.

==================

I don't live in an imaginary world where price doesn't count.  T-6 costs less than $5.50 a quart bought at the Wally local to me, and a 1 oz jigger of Redline booster costs less than a $1.25 when bought from Amazon.  This gets me up into "the good stuff ZDDP range" no matter which number you believe in.

Heck, let's be generous and let's try to exceed the ZDDP in Redline's bike oil and use a whopping big three jiggers of Redline booster on top of the 1,200 ppm in T-6.

Total cost of T-6 plus 3 oz of booster = $9.50 for a fully ZDDP'd fully synthetic oil.

Vs

Shelling out $133 for a case of Redline 10w40 bike oil.  I mean, its red, but so what?  It is still $11 a quart and it is a week away from me.  

Plus, Redline makes racing oil and normal oil and motorcycle oil and the ZDDP reported for each different one is different on BITOG.

But the bike stuff looks awful good, except for the 50 ppm of moly that is in the Redline bike oil that is.   ZDDP looks very good though, almost beyond reasonable reason for an $11 a quart at Amazon.com type of oil.

http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=109&pcid=21

wow

Reality also says that I just changed my oil and I have up to a year to figure out my next oil change.

And in a year, a whole lot is going to change about this situation.  


Wink


..... and in a year I will still have T-6 on hand and over half a bottle of Redline booster left.   Although I will keep an eye out for results from Redline's 10w40 bike oil to see if any one does any VOA/UOA paired testing.
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« Last Edit: 08/09/12 at 18:19:44 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: RECOMMENDED OILS AND BOOSTERS
Reply #25 - 08/09/12 at 17:21:43
 
 
So you wouldn't run T-6 without ZDDP booster anymore either?


OF here   ..... go back up and re-read the post on top of this one as I added info to it -- if I were gonna go to do oil war with Redline's bike oil I would need a bigger cannon than T-6 just by its lonesome.  

 
Does that stuff really have 2,100 ppm of ZDDP in it ????  wow

If I were running a stock cam and had a stock Savage I'd run Rotella T dino and feel fine about it.  

I feel fine running straight T-6 now, although I admit to getting a touch of willy envy at the Redline ZDDP numbers, and you can buy it for $11 a quart from Amazon (but you have to buy a whole case to get that price).   If BITOG backs these numbers they would be pretty amazing, verging on too too much.
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« Last Edit: 08/09/12 at 19:15:33 by Oldfeller--FSO »  
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Re: RECOMMENDED OILS AND BOOSTERS
Reply #26 - 08/09/12 at 17:38:06
 
Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 08/09/12 at 17:17:08:
 
Amisol products are not sold locally or nor are they sold by Amazon.

==================

I don't live in an imaginary world where price doesn't count.  T-6 costs less than $5.50 a quart bought at the Wally local to me, and a 1 oz jigger of Redline booster costs less than a $1.25 when bought from Amazon.  This gets me up into "the good stuff ZDDP range" no matter which number you believe in.

Heck, let's be generous and let's exceed the ZDDP in Redline's bike oil and use a whopping big TWO jiggers of Redline booster.

Total cost of T-6 plus 2 oz of booster = $8 for a fully ZDDP'd fully synthetic oil.

Vs

Shelling out $133 for a case of Redline 10w40 bike oil.  I mean, its red, but so what?  It is still $11 a quart and it is a week away from me.

Reality also says that I just changed my oil and I have up to a year to figure out my next oil change.

And in a year, a whole lot is going to change about this situation.  


Wink

..... and in a year I will still have T-6 on hand and over half a bottle of Redline booster left.

Some not all independent bike shops sell Amsoil, like the one I go to for ordering my parts or minor issues I don't feel like working on.  He sells it at a price between that of the amsoils preferred member price and retail price.

But I do know it's not available everywhere.
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Re: RECOMMENDED OILS AND BOOSTERS
Reply #27 - 08/09/12 at 18:05:28
 
 
Yo !!   Bill !!!   2,100 ppm Red stuff alert !!!


http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=109&pcid=21


You gotta anything to say?   Can Klotz do de same thang for $11 a quart?


I'm a telling you, even bumping T-6 up with 3 ounces of Redline's booster I am getting up to within $2 of the Amazon.com price for the Redline motorcycle oil just to get a parity product.


Redline is open about what's in it and it is mighty strong looking stuff.  No secret ingredients like your Klotz.



(now we will see if Bill is an honest type politician -- he loved Klotz when he didn't know what it had in it, so here comes a younger sexier red-head who shows and tells everything about herself -- and she is stacked, really really stacked)
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« Last Edit: 08/09/12 at 19:16:01 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: RECOMMENDED OILS AND BOOSTERS
Reply #28 - 08/09/12 at 18:27:40
 
Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 08/09/12 at 18:05:28:
 
(now we will see if Bill is an honest type politician -- he loved Klotz when he didn't know what it had in it, so here comes a younger sexier red-head who shows and tells everything about herself -- and she is stacked, really really stacked)

Grin Grin
Now to be fair.. it says 0.25% zinc = 2500ppm, not 21,000.  A mere doubling of the amount in Rotella T6, plus a pinch.. Still, I'll take THOSE bazongas.  Grin Grin
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Re: RECOMMENDED OILS AND BOOSTERS
Reply #29 - 08/09/12 at 18:47:04
 
 
I was being conservative and made her wear the g string bra, the zinc and the phosphorus combine together to make the real ZDDP number so I picked the lesser.  One bazonga is slightly larger than the other (not unusual, btw).  Then she started moving, and they jiggled on me and my decimal place shifted up some in my pants.

Still eye opening though .....    Bill has got him some trouble over there in red-head land, fer shure.  
I don't think his Klotz comes within several bra sizes of those knockers.

$11 bucks a quart ???    Knock it down a few more dollars with Amazon mega-huge style volume discounting and I might even buy some.


=====================


Wally drops all their bike oils except Rotella and Amazon becomes "the place to go" to get your Savage oil cheap -- quite an eventful week this past week, wasn't it?

It isn't over yet, all this oil churning fun.

We need single quart or three-four quart pack shipping quantities and we need Amazon to start keeping it in their own warehouse so Prime zero shipping costs comes into play.

Also need some current VOA testing ... everything is pretty old now.
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