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Got a weird one here (Read 717 times)
Routy
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Re: Got a weird one here
Reply #30 - 08/04/12 at 04:09:20
 
Cavi Mike wrote on 08/04/12 at 01:47:20:
It would have to mean that the neutral safety switch, clutch safety switch and ignition are all faulty. Though it's possible, it's not probable. The fault is with the solenoid. The return spring or something has broken inside the solenoid and is allowing it to close. The solenoid should be the first thing replaced.

I would agree, but if the spring failed, then it would never return to its "N/O" position.

Something is activating (energizing) the starter relay, bet on it !

I think I would suspect the comp release controller.
It is an electronic time/delay switcher, that could have become temperature sensive,........or.....how would I know ? Undecided

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Re: Got a weird one here
Reply #31 - 08/04/12 at 05:22:28
 
You shouldn't ever assume that things are black and white, especially when it comes to electrical connections and extreme temperature differences. Cold damp day and the bike all of a sudden turns over slow but on hot days it's fine and whenever the bike is warm it always starts right up? That's from heat expanding the metal connections at the battery, or the cold contracting them and causing a high-resistance connection. It's probably a similar situation here. When the bike is warm, the busted spring has expanded enough to hold the plunger away. When it cools off, the spring contracts and eventually bam, contact, and the engine begins to turn over.

I'm not saying that's exactly what it is but you're making the situation a LOT more complicated than it most likely is. The probability of 3 things failing at the exact same time is less likely than you winning the lottery while simultaneously getting struck by lightning. Replace the solenoid first, it's the logical first step.

And besides, without the ignition switch turned on, nothing gets power except for the starter solenoid. NOTHING. It's not like in a car where power is still running to half of it. In a bike, the ignition is more akin to a battery cut-off switch. The entire bike is powered down with the ignition off.
I am wrong. Fuses get power directly from the battery.
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« Last Edit: 08/04/12 at 09:41:06 by Cavi Mike »  
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Routy
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Re: Got a weird one here
Reply #32 - 08/04/12 at 08:09:41
 
If that wiring diagram is correct, and the wiring has not been altered, and pulling the 20 amp fuse was just a coincidence, then you are correct.
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Re: Got a weird one here
Reply #33 - 08/04/12 at 08:14:08
 
rfw2003 wrote on 08/04/12 at 01:41:15:
Well it still may end up being that and something else,  but unless I'm reading the wiring diagrams wrong, the controller doesn't get any voltage unless the key is in the on position, so wouldn't this mean my key switch would also have a short in it as well, or a short in it's harness?  The way I read it is, there are only 2 places that have constant power and that is the large cable lead to the starter relay from the battery, and also the smaller wire lead to the key switch unless I'm missing something.

You are missing something. The decomp controller gets +12V straight through the red/white wire that passes through the 2nd fuse. No key, clutch switch, no nothin'.  It always has access to that 12V and all it has to do is pass it on to the black/yellow wire that goes to the starter relay and the starter will light up.  Test the decomp controller and look for any chafed insulation, particularly the red/white and black/yellow wires. (I don't know the actual colors.. just going with the diagram)
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Re: Got a weird one here
Reply #34 - 08/04/12 at 09:06:26
 
This... is one problem I hope I never get...  Undecided...
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Re: Got a weird one here
Reply #35 - 08/04/12 at 09:40:20
 
Oh crap, look at that, I completely missed that wire. The one with the white plug on it. How did I miss that? Well anyways, if rapping the fender makes it stop, how could it be anything else? Rapping the fender isn't going to shake the decomp controller even if it was mounted to the fender, it's rubber isolated.
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Re: Got a weird one here
Reply #36 - 08/04/12 at 10:03:51
 
Cavi Mike wrote on 08/04/12 at 09:40:20:
Oh crap, look at that, I completely missed that wire. The one with the white plug on it. How did I miss that? Well anyways, if rapping the fender makes it stop, how could it be anything else? Rapping the fender isn't going to shake the decomp controller even if it was mounted to the fender, it's rubber isolated.

The cause of the problem is a hot wire short somewhere.
the sticking relay is another problem.

I've always wondered why that wire wasn't thru the iggy.
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Re: Got a weird one here
Reply #37 - 08/04/12 at 10:22:10
 
rfw2003 wrote on 08/04/12 at 01:41:15:
SaVaGeEaRL wrote on 08/04/12 at 01:14:17:
The solenoid won't be a source of current though. Start with the controller and go backwards from there. I'd bet it's the controller.

Well it still may end up being that and something else,  but unless I'm reading the wiring diagrams wrong, the controller doesn't get any voltage unless the key is in the on position, so wouldn't this mean my key switch would also have a short in it as well, or a short in it's harness?  The way I read it is, there are only 2 places that have constant power and that is the large cable lead to the starter relay from the battery, and also the smaller wire lead to the key switch unless I'm missing something.

R.F.




Yep,, you are. Theres a single red wire, 18 maybe 20 gauge, skinny thing, under the seat that is always hot, Thats how I made my switch always spin the starter, even with the key in my pocket,

Unlessyou are talking about that red wire being the one that goes to the key,, IDK where it goes, I found it & used it.
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Re: Got a weird one here
Reply #38 - 08/04/12 at 12:27:58
 
I will definitely check into the decomp controller and the wires suggested coming from it. If it turn out it's the controller itself and not the wiring, is it really needed or could I just use a push button wired to directly to the solenoid and just hold it down while cranking it over to start it?

R.F.
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Re: Got a weird one here
Reply #39 - 08/14/12 at 20:27:29
 
Did we ever get anymore on this problem ?
I think it was narrowed down to more likely being a faulty controller for the comp release,.....if not a shorted harness ?

I kinda renamed this "The spooky Suki"
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Re: Got a weird one here
Reply #40 - 08/14/12 at 20:32:18
 
Routy wrote on 08/14/12 at 20:27:29:
Did we ever get anymore on this problem ?
I think it was narrowed down to more likely being a faulty controller for the comp release,.....if not a shorted harness ?

I kinda renamed this "The spooky Suki"

Haven't had a chance to get to looking into it more yet,  but yes I'm def leaning toward the faulty decomp controller since on last look at the harness I didn't find anything.  Life is getting in the way atm so I haven't been able to tear into it yet for further analysis.  Should be able to get to it by this weekend though.

R.F.
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Re: Got a weird one here
Reply #41 - 08/14/12 at 20:39:38
 
I wanna say 2nd wire from left on the front of the decomp will fire the decomp & starter if ya lay 12 V on it. I think that bypasses it, but it sure will start that way..I THINK thats the right wire..
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Re: Got a weird one here
Reply #42 - 08/15/12 at 16:52:49
 
Problem located and temp fix applied.   It was the decomp controller.

Ghost in the zuki is GONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

R.F.
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Re: Got a weird one here
Reply #43 - 08/15/12 at 19:43:20
 
Just took apart the Decomp controller and it was def the issue.  Here are a few pics of the inside of it.  Notice the brown sludge and corrosion all over the place in there.   The circuit board break was from taking it apart.





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Re: Got a weird one here
Reply #44 - 08/15/12 at 20:34:07
 
How puttin' this in the tech section?

tell us how you tore it apart and why.
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