SuzukiSavage.com - suzuki oil vs klotz

Routy

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Re: suzuki oil vs klotz
Reply #30 - 12/06/11 at 07:06:18

OF,
You are a mod,....so if I say something that you can prove to be not true, or something that offends you, you have the option of deleting it,......I guess.
OTOH, if you don't know (realize) that a crankcase can get deluted if a float valve is leaking, and you forget to turn off a manual (raptor) petcock,.....much less need proof for this ever happening, then I don't know what to tell you,.......well,....really I do but won't. Wink

Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 12/05/11 at 11:09:42:

Routy sez "You change oil when it starts to get dirty, DUH ???
Or when your Raptor makes your oil so thin, your con rod starts talking to ya !"

I call the Challenge --- Routy, produce evidence that a Raptor petcock has ever diluted the oil in the sump on a Savage ls650 or S40 or eat yer words.

Cheesy

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Routy

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Re: suzuki oil vs klotz
Reply #31 - 12/06/11 at 07:22:06

Anyone who thinks that oil should get dirty right away, or else the oil is no good, or the engine is junk, has never had a good engine ! My '95 Toyota truck at 60K still runs near 5K miles before the amber even starts to go away,.....same oil, same conditions, as my Chry Voy w/ the same miliage. And there ain't nothin wrong w/ my Chry. I'll admit, the Toyota is the only vehicle I've had that runs that clean.
But besides all that, my statement will hold forever,......you change oil when it gets dirty (you the judge!) The MFG DOESN'T know when your oil will need changing. At the same time, too often it ok.

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bill67

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Re: suzuki oil vs klotz
Reply #32 - 12/06/11 at 08:45:58

Gyrobob wrote on 12/06/11 at 06:40:22:

Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 12/06/11 at 05:53:38:

Bill, Klotz doesn't do anything for a Savage engine -- we have tested it here on the list and found it raises head temperature, oil sump temperature while basically not doing anything for the performance of a stock Savage motor.

All it did was increase the friction loss of the engine as shown by the overall increase in operating temperatures on the bottom and top ends. And all your claims of "incrased piston seal" blew right out the exhaust pipe along with the Klotz, as it did nothing to help an older engine lose less oil or make more power.

Bill, you need to stop offering recommendations to newbies as you have no factual basis to back those recommendations. And some of the things you say for newbies to do are potentially engine harmful, such as putting Seafoam (a fuel system cleaner) into the engine oil long term to "clean things up". This is an insane thing to do ....

Agree completely. As an engineer with a lot of study devoted to air-cooled engines, I can testify that just about anytime you go against the wishes of the manufacturer (using oil additives, strange oils, bogus "cleaners" etc.) you run a great risk of doing something harmful.

Seafoam in the crankcase is a prime example since it alters the chemical makeup, lubricating properties, and viscosity of the oil.

As Oldfeller states, spouting this kind of "guidance" might well con someone new to engines into trying something that will cause them a lot of heartache and misery.

Show me what motorcycle manual tells you to use diesel oil in their motorcycle,To tell a newbie to use diesel oil in and engine thats not a diesel is just plain insane.

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Routy

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Re: suzuki oil vs klotz
Reply #33 - 12/06/11 at 10:12:08

bill67 wrote on 12/06/11 at 08:45:58:

Gyrobob wrote on 12/06/11 at 06:40:22:

Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 12/06/11 at 05:53:38:

Bill, Klotz doesn't do anything for a Savage engine -- we have tested it here on the list and found it raises head temperature, oil sump temperature while basically not doing anything for the performance of a stock Savage motor.

All it did was increase the friction loss of the engine as shown by the overall increase in operating temperatures on the bottom and top ends. And all your claims of "incrased piston seal" blew right out the exhaust pipe along with the Klotz, as it did nothing to help an older engine lose less oil or make more power.

Bill, you need to stop offering recommendations to newbies as you have no factual basis to back those recommendations. And some of the things you say for newbies to do are potentially engine harmful, such as putting Seafoam (a fuel system cleaner) into the engine oil long term to "clean things up". This is an insane thing to do ....

Agree completely. As an engineer with a lot of study devoted to air-cooled engines, I can testify that just about anytime you go against the wishes of the manufacturer (using oil additives, strange oils, bogus "cleaners" etc.) you run a great risk of doing something harmful.

Seafoam in the crankcase is a prime example since it alters the chemical makeup, lubricating properties, and viscosity of the oil.

As Oldfeller states, spouting this kind of "guidance" might well con someone new to engines into trying something that will cause them a lot of heartache and misery.

Show me what motorcycle manual tells you to use diesel oil in their motorcycle,To tell a newbie to use diesel oil in and engine thats not a diesel is just plain insane.

Tell'm Bill !
All the BS these guys spread around here, and they're getting on you for this petty stuff ??

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Rich
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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Reply #34 - 12/06/11 at 10:55:15 Routy some of the guys on here have been BS ing so long they got them selfs brainwashed into beleiving it.
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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Online Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28788 L.A. California Gender:	Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Reply #35 - 12/06/11 at 11:13:45 bill67 wrote on 12/06/11 at 08:45:58: Show me what motorcycle manual tells you to use diesel oil in their motorcycle,To tell a newbie to use diesel oil in and engine thats not a diesel is just plain insane. rotella T6 is rated JASO-MA just like the manual says.
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Gyrobob

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Re: suzuki oil vs klotz
Reply #36 - 12/06/11 at 12:28:13

verslagen1 wrote on 12/06/11 at 11:13:45:

bill67 wrote on 12/06/11 at 08:45:58:

Show me what motorcycle manual tells you to use diesel oil in their motorcycle,To tell a newbie to use diesel oil in and engine thats not a diesel is just plain insane.

rotella T6 is rated JASO-MA just like the manual says.

Jeeeeezzz, Verslagen,,.... Are you trying to get us to believe that Rotella is the kind of oil approved by Suzuki Corp? Well, I never!!!

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Re: suzuki oil vs klotz
Reply #37 - 12/06/11 at 12:38:08

Gyrobob wrote on 12/06/11 at 12:28:13:

verslagen1 wrote on 12/06/11 at 11:13:45:

bill67 wrote on 12/06/11 at 08:45:58:

Show me what motorcycle manual tells you to use diesel oil in their motorcycle,To tell a newbie to use diesel oil in and engine thats not a diesel is just plain insane.

rotella T6 is rated JASO-MA just like the manual says.

Jeeeeezzz, Verslagen,,.... Are you trying to get us to believe that Rotella is the kind of oil approved by Suzuki Corp? Well, I never!!!

I know it's small print, but get yourself a magnifyin' glass.

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Gyrobob

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Re: suzuki oil vs klotz
Reply #38 - 12/06/11 at 12:40:43

I had to use some Rotella in one of my motorcycles (2004 Yamaha FJR1300) once when I was away from home.

I'll be darned if it didn't shift smoother for the next several months, and I thought I detected a slight bit of lower temps, but maybe not.

When I changed the oil next, I used up the last of my Spectro motorcycle oil. I'll be darned if it didn't shift clunkier than before, and, funny thing, the temps crept back up a bit.

So,.. I researched Rotella on several websites including some FJR sites. Most of them said Rotella was slicker than owl-snot for use in the mighty FJR, and that it would keep its lubricity longer in the rather harsh engine/transmission combination of the FJR. According to one of the FJR-riding Shell engineers on the site, there is something about oil made for diesels,... it has some distinct advantages for unit engine/trans motorcycles. I'll be darned.

So,... making sure no one saw me, I snuck into Walmart and bought a 5 gallon jug of Rotella (for about half of what I paid for Spectro), raced home and did the oil change before anyone knew. I'll be darned if it didn't shift smoother and the temps decreased a bit. Again.

I'll be darned if I don't keep using the stuff in all my motorcycles from now on. Even if it DIDN'T save any money, I'd use it because it just works mo' betta.

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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Reply #39 - 12/06/11 at 12:46:47 Cheap Cheap Chirp Chirp Cheap Cheap Chirp Chirp
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verslagen1

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Re: suzuki oil vs klotz
Reply #40 - 12/06/11 at 14:22:23

Routy wrote on 12/06/11 at 07:06:18:

OF,
You are a mod,....so if I say something that you can prove to be not true, or something that offends you, you have the option of deleting it,......I guess.
OTOH, if you don't know (realize) that a crankcase can get deluted if a float valve is leaking, and you forget to turn off a manual (raptor) petcock,.....much less need proof for this ever happening, then I don't know what to tell you,.......well,....really I do but won't. Wink

Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 12/05/11 at 11:09:42:

Routy sez "You change oil when it starts to get dirty, DUH ???
Or when your Raptor makes your oil so thin, your con rod starts talking to ya !"

I call the Challenge --- Routy, produce evidence that a Raptor petcock has ever diluted the oil in the sump on a Savage ls650 or S40 or eat yer words.

Cheesy

There was one already, and any vac petcock left on prime and flooded the crankcase is an example of the same failure.

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Arizuno Full Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 227 Prescott, AZ Gender:	Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Reply #41 - 12/06/11 at 16:01:09 Any thread that combines motor oil, petcocks, WMD and insults is my kinda thread. Thanks, everybody!
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Oldfeller--FSO

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Re: suzuki oil vs klotz
Reply #42 - 12/06/11 at 18:06:44

verslagen1 wrote on 12/06/11 at 14:22:23:

Routy wrote on 12/06/11 at 07:06:18:

OF,
You are a mod,....so if I say something that you can prove to be not true, or something that offends you, you have the option of deleting it,......I guess.
OTOH, if you don't know (realize) that a crankcase can get deluted if a float valve is leaking, and you forget to turn off a manual (raptor) petcock,.....much less need proof for this ever happening, then I don't know what to tell you,.......well,....really I do but won't. Wink

Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 12/05/11 at 11:09:42:

Routy sez "You change oil when it starts to get dirty, DUH ???
Or when your Raptor makes your oil so thin, your con rod starts talking to ya !"

I call the Challenge --- Routy, produce evidence that a Raptor petcock has ever diluted the oil in the sump on a Savage ls650 or S40 or eat yer words.

Cheesy

There was one already, and any vac petcock left on prime and flooded the crankcase is an example of the same failure.

================

Nope, on that one I showed you up thread where the boy had taken his carb completely apart prior to his Raptor showing up. Then down thread, he says he fixed his float from where he screwed it up working on it the first time.

He was the cause of the that gas in sump, not the Raptor. And if that was your only shot, then you still ain't got any proof that a Raptor has EVER put gas in the sump of a Savage.

But we is still all waiting and looking for it to happen -- surely eventually it will and then you can celebrate !!

Until then, here's a warmed over plate of yer own words for you to eat all over again .....

Grin

bon appetite as the Frenchies say

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verslagen1

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Re: suzuki oil vs klotz
Reply #43 - 12/06/11 at 19:12:10

2 for 1 special today...

buttgoat1 wrote on 04/23/11 at 20:11:46:

you may want to check your oil to see if the petcock and float let gas flood the crankcase. Happened to me. (indeterminate -- could be vac or raptor, he doesn't say what happened to him)(what's the diff? vac on prime or raptor left on? a faulty float valve is going to result in a flooded case.

kevin r. wrote on 04/23/11 at 22:46:50:

Woops I was misinformed about the overflow haha sorry. The oil level does seem a bit high so ill check it tomorrow. If there's a few drips still coming out of that tube at the bottom of the crank case (air tube) should I be worried? It wasn't pissing out but every few seconds there were drips of gas/oil or realllllly dirty gas coming out but that was before and just after I swapped in the raptor petcock. Apparently the vacuum line was already blocked but I will cut a new section of hose and seal it off tomorrow to be double sure. Have a great holiday everyone!

kevin r. wrote on 04/24/11 at 17:12:27:

Just and update:

I changed the vacuum hose block (this one sounds like a vac unit being changed out to a Raptor after the leakage event has already taken place)(If you read closely, he mentions changing out the petcock then it flooded again most likely cause he left the raptor on) and put in some new gas. The leak stopped and then I took off the air filter cover and gas came pouring out! There was so much in the filter housing. I changed the oil (or what used to be oil) shortly after. Almost all of it was gas. I put in some no name 10w 40 SAE oil and it knocks a little bit so I'll do a full oil change soon. But it runs great with no leaks now. Just have to shine it up a bit before I put it on the road.

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« Last Edit: 12/06/11 at 23:13:10 by verslagen1 »

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Oldfeller--FSO

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Re: suzuki oil vs klotz
Reply #44 - 12/06/11 at 20:40:55

I just read Kevin R's last 25 posts -- he bought a 50,000 mile bike and had to do a lot of things to it to get it running. He did replace his petcock with a raptor but he posts pics and has some discussion about his crapped up oil that took place before hand.

Kevin is not really very "sequentially wired" so read his posts with a free rein on when he is referring to what and where....

And yes, he posts different threads on the same items as he hasn't resolved a couple of things that are still wrong with his bike.

Of course, not good data, throw it out
Roll Eyes

Kevin R's data is just as good as anybody's data -- just be mindful that he had a sump issue (the one he took pictures of) that took place before he got his raptor, he still hadn't fixed his carb issues yet and I really can't tell which episode he is referring to because of his conversational style.

In any case, I think we can agree that Kevin's issues are carburetor driven now and that he needs to fix his float and valve functions.

But now he says everything is fine ????

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« Last Edit: 12/07/11 at 11:18:01 by Oldfeller--FSO »

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