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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> suzuki oil vs klotz /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1323048196 Message started by built2last66 on 12/04/11 at 17:23:16 |
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Title: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by built2last66 on 12/04/11 at 17:23:16 Which kind klotz do you use (not thickness)? Can anyone sum up the differences? :D |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Serowbot on 12/04/11 at 17:54:40 You just lookin' for trouble?... ;D... |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by bill67 on 12/04/11 at 18:10:45 Mx4 is their newest and best,I use 15w/50.10w/40 doesn't have the zero wear rating only 15w/50. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Gyrobob on 12/04/11 at 18:35:43 6374686D75336D6072753737010 wrote:
Mix the two together to make sure all the bases are covered,.... Klotzuki |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by built2last66 on 12/04/11 at 18:40:27 033D362B262B26440 wrote:
Mix the two together to make sure all the bases are covered,.... Klotzuki[/quote] Haha... I'm gonna try Klotz out, I've been using Suzuki since I got the bike (thought I couldn't go wrong with their own brand) but since everyone says it's garbage guess I'll move on... |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by verslagen1 on 12/04/11 at 19:06:52 Klotz doesn't play well with other oils. make sure to tip the bike from side to side to get all of the old oil out. do it several times, then I'd change it after a day of riding. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by feelinjunky on 12/04/11 at 20:14:02 Castrol GTX. This isn't the 1980s where the difference between oil and urine was questionable. http://www.moneybluebook.com/the-3000-mile-oil-change-myth-save-your-money/ "Even in the severe driving conditions that a New York City taxi endures, we noted no benefit from changing the oil every 3,000 miles rather than every 6,000. If your driving falls into the "normal" service category, changing the oil every 7,500 miles (or at the automaker's suggested intervals) should certainly provide adequate protection. (We recommend changing the oil filter with each oil change.)" 2 quarts of anything every 5k and you're good. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by dasch on 12/05/11 at 00:56:01 4355425F47525F44300 wrote:
Hahahaha! |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by bill67 on 12/05/11 at 02:05:55 5C4F5859464B4D4F441B2A0 wrote:
::) |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Routy on 12/05/11 at 06:48:46 Who ever said Zuzuski oil was junk ? Mite have said only a fool would buy it at price. But forget the brands of oil, cuz I know there ain't a dimes worth of difference tween'm anyway. But how does a MFG, or a book, or anyone else, other than the person looking at the dipstick know when oil should be changed ??? You change oil when it starts to get dirty, DUH ??? Or when your Raptor makes your oil so thin, your con rod starts talking to ya ! :-/ |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Gyrobob on 12/05/11 at 08:06:28 37382239252330323A3423510 wrote:
Detergent oil is supposed to look dirty fairly quickly. If it stays clear-looking for a long time, either you have the only engine on the planet with no blow-by, or your detergent oil is not "deterging." |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by houstonbofh on 12/05/11 at 08:15:00 7774747D787F7B647F7A68110 wrote:
Modern automotive oils have friction modifiers, and putting those in a wet clutch system is a bad thing... |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by verslagen1 on 12/05/11 at 08:27:24 0638332E232E23410 wrote:
Detergent oil is supposed to look dirty fairly quickly. If it stays clear-looking for a long time, either you have the only engine on the planet with no blow-by, or your detergent oil is not "deterging."[/quote] Being quite new to a low mileage engine, I was quite surprised to see the oil remain amber for close to a week. Generally, there's enough left over oil to tint the new oil immediately. Once you get to know your savage, you will notice when it needs to be change quite easily. It's starts to disapear, it starts to shift differently, anything out of character for you and your bike. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Oldfeller on 12/05/11 at 11:09:42 Routy sez "You change oil when it starts to get dirty, DUH ??? Or when your Raptor makes your oil so thin, your con rod starts talking to ya !" I call the Challenge --- Routy, produce evidence that a Raptor petcock has ever diluted the oil in the sump on a Savage ls650 or S40 or eat yer words. :D |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Oldfeller on 12/05/11 at 11:13:30 Built2last, You will be the second person to attempt to impartially try out Klotz oil to see if it offers anything much different to the user. How shall you judge your previous oil vs the Klotz oil? Will you collect any data or evidence, if so what sort of data? |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by bill67 on 12/05/11 at 11:33:44 OF, what kind of data do you collect on your diesel oil. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Oldfeller on 12/05/11 at 11:51:08 Bill, I run a middlin' high performance engine (strongest proven not-blown-up-yet engine on the East Coast with 5+ mountain runs with lots of list members as witness). I run a high performance cam (Stage 2) and run in RPM ranges that normal Savages can't even get up to. Every 2 years I change my oil filter (yup, worked up to 2 years now) and I publish the pics of the stuff I find sticking to the magnet and loose in the filter inside the Supermagnet thread. I replace my oil several time during that period by repeatedly topping off, but that is pretty normal for older Savage engines that actually get run hard. I also publish my 3-5 year teardowns on my air filter in the air filter thread. My claims for Rotella Syn? I let other people make all the wonderful claims, as I actually cheat on it by bumping up the ZDDP back up towards 1800 ppm level using Redline ZDDP booster. So my evidence would be polluted anyway, so I don't offer it up for anything. Heck Bill, we can't even find proof that your bike even runs anymore ever since you admitted the battery needed replacing. But if somebody is gonna spend the bucks to do a Verslagen take #2 on Klotz, at least he ought to get some data for his trouble and expense. It would be nice if somebody found SOMETHING real that the red stuff did that was worth the $13 a quart price tag. ;D wintertime is oil war time -- jest to fill up all the boring wid somethin !!! |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by bill67 on 12/05/11 at 13:09:46 OF you should try Klotz once,the higher performance engines will benefit more.No blow by,more horsepower,more rpm,slicker shifting transmission. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by verslagen1 on 12/05/11 at 13:31:29 53585D5D0706310 wrote:
You otta do that OF. but do it just like bill. Buy a brand new or low mileage bike. Fill 'er up with klotz, then park it. Otta last forever. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by built2last66 on 12/05/11 at 13:36:05 0E2D2527242D2D2433410 wrote:
I wasn't trying to start up another oil war, I've used Suzuki brand since I got the bike not knowing jack nuts about engines or oils, figured I couldn't go wrong. I'm trying to slowly get into performance, and since I'm about to add a verslavvy I figure I'd try out a new high performance oil as well... I meant for this thread to be purely Suzuki brand vs. Klotz, but what kind of oil do you use Old Feller? And, how should I go about keeping data? I've found Klotz Mx4 15w/50 for $8 a quart so far, which is $3 more per quart, so if for $9 I can keep a healthier engine it's worth it to me. [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif] |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by thumperclone on 12/05/11 at 13:50:02 3A352F34282E3D3F37392E5C0 wrote:
the packaging is the difference... was a maint tech in an audio accessories plant.. we would get containers loaded full with cassette head cleaners,or phone extension cords,or bananna plug jacks etc etc.. one day memorex labels another day radio shack or sears or whoevers label... all the same product just different labels or blister packs or bags with a cardboard hanger top.. you dont always get what you pay for but you pay for the name on the label.... |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Oldfeller on 12/05/11 at 15:38:33 Built2last, The last time Klotz was performance tested it was "against" straight stock Rotella T6 and Klotz lost on all points we were tracking, which were all temperature/friction related (head and sump both). Much real numerical data was collected and we all enjoyed watching Bill wriggle frantically like a worm when the hook first kisses his butt when the numbers started coming in -- because numbers don't lie and Klotz didn't do so good wid them nasty numbers/facts/data stuff compared to stock Rot Syn (which cost like half as much). Like I said, I bump up the ZDDP numbers in Rot Syn to the 1800 ppm level using a ZDDP booster, so my bike isn't a representative of anything except a steady case of excessive RPMs and the resulting low gas mileage figures. ============ What do you think makes oil "better" ??? What characteristics are you looking for? How would such be measured? |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by bill67 on 12/05/11 at 17:11:19 You should have bumped your Rots with Klotz. 8-) |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Oldfeller on 12/05/11 at 19:22:56 Why? You increase your additive level (in this case the ZDDP level) using something with more of it in it, not less of it. I wasn't trying to increase the level of red food coloring, you know .... I was increasing the ZDDP level, which is a non-magical non-klotz good stuff they put in engine oil on purpose so it can keep your cam and flat tappet follower from getting symptoms of high speed indigestion. If I was trying to increase the red magic advertising pixie dust content, then I would put some Klutz in there. But, alas, I am an unbeliever ..... red pixie dust doesn't work for me. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by bill67 on 12/05/11 at 19:34:56 Its all about the cost,But Klotz is cheap insurance. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Oldfeller on 12/06/11 at 05:53:38 Bill, Klotz doesn't do anything for a Savage engine -- we have tested it here on the list and found it raises head temperature, oil sump temperature while basically not doing anything for the performance of a stock Savage motor. All it did was increase the friction loss of the engine as shown by the overall increase in operating temperatures on the bottom and top ends. And all your claims of "increased piston seal" blew right out the exhaust pipe along with the Klotz, as it did nothing to help an older engine lose less oil or make more power. Bill, you need to stop offering recommendations to newbies as you have no factual basis to back those recommendations. And some of the things you say for newbies to do are potentially engine harmful, such as putting Seafoam (a fuel system cleaner) into the engine oil long term to "clean things up". This is an insane thing to do .... |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by bill67 on 12/06/11 at 06:09:25 You really didn't believe those bogus test did you,The oil that versy used before he said won,Now come on now,You and the rest of the people aren't in grade school.Rot won like iraq had WMD,All BS. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by bill67 on 12/06/11 at 06:14:00 Rot cleans the engine so good you said you need to use 3 oil changes to get you engine clean ::) |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Gyrobob on 12/06/11 at 06:33:54 272C29297372450 wrote:
Since they did find several hundred WMDs in Iraq, I guess your point is that Rotella is the best oil. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Gyrobob on 12/06/11 at 06:40:22 082B2321222B2B2235470 wrote:
Agree completely. As an engineer with a lot of study devoted to air-cooled engines, I can testify that just about anytime you go against the wishes of the manufacturer (using oil additives, strange oils, bogus "cleaners" etc.) you run a great risk of doing something harmful. Seafoam in the crankcase is a prime example since it alters the chemical makeup, lubricating properties, and viscosity of the oil. As Oldfeller states, spouting this kind of "guidance" might well con someone new to engines into trying something that will cause them a lot of heartache and misery. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Routy on 12/06/11 at 07:06:18 OF, You are a mod,....so if I say something that you can prove to be not true, or something that offends you, you have the option of deleting it,......I guess. OTOH, if you don't know (realize) that a crankcase can get deluted if a float valve is leaking, and you forget to turn off a manual (raptor) petcock,.....much less need proof for this ever happening, then I don't know what to tell you,.......well,....really I do but won't. ;) 7F5C5456555C5C5542300 wrote:
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Routy on 12/06/11 at 07:22:06 Anyone who thinks that oil should get dirty right away, or else the oil is no good, or the engine is junk, has never had a good engine ! My '95 Toyota truck at 60K still runs near 5K miles before the amber even starts to go away,.....same oil, same conditions, as my Chry Voy w/ the same miliage. And there ain't nothin wrong w/ my Chry. I'll admit, the Toyota is the only vehicle I've had that runs that clean. But besides all that, my statement will hold forever,......you change oil when it gets dirty (you the judge!) The MFG DOESN'T know when your oil will need changing. At the same time, too often it ok. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by bill67 on 12/06/11 at 08:45:58 0F313A272A272A480 wrote:
Agree completely. As an engineer with a lot of study devoted to air-cooled engines, I can testify that just about anytime you go against the wishes of the manufacturer (using oil additives, strange oils, bogus "cleaners" etc.) you run a great risk of doing something harmful. Seafoam in the crankcase is a prime example since it alters the chemical makeup, lubricating properties, and viscosity of the oil. As Oldfeller states, spouting this kind of "guidance" might well con someone new to engines into trying something that will cause them a lot of heartache and misery.[/quote] Show me what motorcycle manual tells you to use diesel oil in their motorcycle,To tell a newbie to use diesel oil in and engine thats not a diesel is just plain insane. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Routy on 12/06/11 at 10:12:08 747F7A7A2021160 wrote:
Agree completely. As an engineer with a lot of study devoted to air-cooled engines, I can testify that just about anytime you go against the wishes of the manufacturer (using oil additives, strange oils, bogus "cleaners" etc.) you run a great risk of doing something harmful. Seafoam in the crankcase is a prime example since it alters the chemical makeup, lubricating properties, and viscosity of the oil. As Oldfeller states, spouting this kind of "guidance" might well con someone new to engines into trying something that will cause them a lot of heartache and misery.[/quote] Show me what motorcycle manual tells you to use diesel oil in their motorcycle,To tell a newbie to use diesel oil in and engine thats not a diesel is just plain insane.[/quote] Tell'm Bill ! All the BS these guys spread around here, and they're getting on you for this petty stuff ?? |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by bill67 on 12/06/11 at 10:55:15 Routy some of the guys on here have been BS ing so long they got them selfs brainwashed into beleiving it. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by verslagen1 on 12/06/11 at 11:13:45 6D66636339380F0 wrote:
rotella T6 is rated JASO-MA just like the manual says. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Gyrobob on 12/06/11 at 12:28:13 6E7D6A6B74797F7D7629180 wrote:
rotella T6 is rated JASO-MA just like the manual says.[/quote] Jeeeeezzz, Verslagen,,.... Are you trying to get us to believe that Rotella is the kind of oil approved by Suzuki Corp? Well, I never!!! |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by verslagen1 on 12/06/11 at 12:38:08 6658534E434E43210 wrote:
rotella T6 is rated JASO-MA just like the manual says.[/quote] Jeeeeezzz, Verslagen,,.... Are you trying to get us to believe that Rotella is the kind of oil approved by Suzuki Corp? Well, I never!!![/quote] I know it's small print, but get yourself a magnifyin' glass. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Gyrobob on 12/06/11 at 12:40:43 I had to use some Rotella in one of my motorcycles (2004 Yamaha FJR1300) once when I was away from home. I'll be darned if it didn't shift smoother for the next several months, and I thought I detected a slight bit of lower temps, but maybe not. When I changed the oil next, I used up the last of my Spectro motorcycle oil. I'll be darned if it didn't shift clunkier than before, and, funny thing, the temps crept back up a bit. So,.. I researched Rotella on several websites including some FJR sites. Most of them said Rotella was slicker than owl-snot for use in the mighty FJR, and that it would keep its lubricity longer in the rather harsh engine/transmission combination of the FJR. According to one of the FJR-riding Shell engineers on the site, there is something about oil made for diesels,... it has some distinct advantages for unit engine/trans motorcycles. I'll be darned. So,... making sure no one saw me, I snuck into Walmart and bought a 5 gallon jug of Rotella (for about half of what I paid for Spectro), raced home and did the oil change before anyone knew. I'll be darned if it didn't shift smoother and the temps decreased a bit. Again. I'll be darned if I don't keep using the stuff in all my motorcycles from now on. Even if it DIDN'T save any money, I'd use it because it just works mo' betta. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by bill67 on 12/06/11 at 12:46:47 Cheap Cheap Chirp Chirp Cheap Cheap Chirp Chirp ;D |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by verslagen1 on 12/06/11 at 14:22:23 58574D564A4C5F5D555B4C3E0 wrote:
[/quote] There was one already, and any vac petcock left on prime and flooded the crankcase is an example of the same failure. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Arizuno on 12/06/11 at 16:01:09 Any thread that combines motor oil, petcocks, WMD and insults is my kinda thread. Thanks, everybody! :D |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Oldfeller on 12/06/11 at 18:06:44 2B382F2E313C3A38336C5D0 wrote:
[/quote] There was one already, and any vac petcock left on prime and flooded the crankcase is an example of the same failure.[/quote] ================ Nope, on that one I showed you up thread where the boy had taken his carb completely apart prior to his Raptor showing up. Then down thread, he says he fixed his float from where he screwed it up working on it the first time. He was the cause of the that gas in sump, not the Raptor. And if that was your only shot, then you still ain't got any proof that a Raptor has EVER put gas in the sump of a Savage. But we is still all waiting and looking for it to happen -- surely eventually it will and then you can celebrate !! Until then, here's a warmed over plate of yer own words for you to eat all over again ..... ;D bon appetite as the Frenchies say |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by verslagen1 on 12/06/11 at 19:12:10 2 for 1 special today... 4E594A5F595E594A55380 wrote:
415C4F59431B18182A0 wrote:
54495A4C560E0D0D3F0 wrote:
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Oldfeller on 12/06/11 at 20:40:55 I just read Kevin R's last 25 posts -- he bought a 50,000 mile bike and had to do a lot of things to it to get it running. He did replace his petcock with a raptor but he posts pics and has some discussion about his crapped up oil that took place before hand. Kevin is not really very "sequentially wired" so read his posts with a free rein on when he is referring to what and where.... And yes, he posts different threads on the same items as he hasn't resolved a couple of things that are still wrong with his bike. Of course, not good data, throw it out ::) Kevin R's data is just as good as anybody's data -- just be mindful that he had a sump issue (the one he took pictures of) that took place before he got his raptor, he still hadn't fixed his carb issues yet and I really can't tell which episode he is referring to because of his conversational style. In any case, I think we can agree that Kevin's issues are carburetor driven now and that he needs to fix his float and valve functions. But now he says everything is fine ???? |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by built2last66 on 12/07/11 at 13:04:42 6658534E434E43210 wrote: So Gyro, which Rotella T do you use? Triple? T6? I'm trying to make a good decision here... |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Gyrobob on 12/07/11 at 13:49:59 382F33362E68363B292E6C6C5A0 wrote:
So Gyro, which Rotella T do you use? Triple? T6? I'm trying to make a good decision here...[/quote] I used the dino oil for a few times, and have recently started using the synth. I can't tell any diff between the two. I'm sure the synth has better extreme heat resistance, etc., but when I switched, the FJR-1300 felt the same. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Oldfeller on 12/09/11 at 16:11:12 Folks keep saying that Rot Syn "feels the same", mainly because it stays right at the same 40w when it gets really hot (does not thin out much at all) and it stays the same when it is really cold (does not thicken much either). I used to dare people to put some in the freezer at neg 10 degrees or whatever your freezer unit does, then take it out and pour it into a frying pan, then heat it up and pour it back, and do it all over again just to get a feel for how little it changes compared to what normal dino oil does. That is why I pay the extra bucks for it, because nothing I can do to it with my Savage is gonna matter very much to Rot Syn -- no cooked motor, no jellied oil from cooking it to death nor from trying to crank it on a 7 degree day (should I ever be strange enough in the head to actually try riding on those very rare very low temp cold mornings). And indeed, it just gets a little darker over the year plus between changes, it pours out pretty much the same way it poured in over a year ago. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by bill67 on 12/10/11 at 00:56:40 suzuki oil vs klotz oil |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by dasch on 12/10/11 at 07:54:11 I find it hard to believe there is "Suzuki" oil. Specially nowadays, I bet they buy tankers of Shell, Castroll or god knows what kinda Chinese oil that meets specs and label it Suzuki. If this was some super modern 150HP per liter engine - yup, I'd follow the manual religiously. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by built2last66 on 12/10/11 at 09:49:44 http://www.suzukicycles.com/Accessories/suzuki%20oil%20_%20chemicals/990A0-10W40-1QT.aspx?Tab=Care&view=&category=suzuki%20oil%20_%20chemicals |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Oldfeller on 12/10/11 at 12:44:34 OK, so Suzuki brand 10w-40 dino based motorcycle oil costs $5.83 a quart, Nearest equivalent oil discussed was dino based Rotella T white jug 15w-40 at $3.25 a quart. (over $2.60 a quart cheaper ????) =========================== When you start to discuss synthetics, the candidates are Klotz at $12.99 a quart and Rotella T-6 full synthetic at $5.50 a quart Nobody is gonna even consider Suzuki dino oil in the same class as the full synthetics (even though it costs more than one of the ones we are talking about). Now, please remember, every oil listed above has been oil warred to death with performance data collected, except for Suzuki dino oil which got left out at the gate because it costs WAY too much for a dino oil for folks to even consider it. Well, Bill -- do you think you wanna oil war Suzuki oil at $5.83 a quart against Klotz whupp'n Rotella T-6 synthetic at $5.50 a quart available at Walmarts everywhere? Rotella T6 already whupped yer favorite Klotz in a full on data collection test so there ain't no point in Klotz vs Rot Syn again. =========================== BUT .... Hey Bill, mebbe you could actually win you a Klotz synthetic vs Suzuki dino oil war with data collected type test? Good news is, if you finally won eventually, all it would prove is that $13 a quart Klotz is better than a good dino oil. You would still not be as good as Rotella T6 full synthetic, which costs 33 cents less per quart than the Suzuki dino oil that you finally did manage to beat. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by bill67 on 12/10/11 at 14:33:21 Being in the construction business all my life I have found using the best pays off.Tools,oils what ever.cheap is temporary very temporary.I would use suzuki oil before diesel oil any day,after all it's made for motorcycles. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Oldfeller on 12/10/11 at 14:38:47 :D I love the way Bill simply refuses to talk to the facts laid before him .... he knows both Rotella oils are JASO-MA rated and are "motorcycle oils". .... but if it was a lose-lose contest like he often gets into, I guess I can understand it |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by bill67 on 12/10/11 at 14:46:36 Rot the Yugo of oils. ;D |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by built2last66 on 12/10/11 at 15:36:18 Lets go ahead and close this thread, I've come to a conclusion on which oils to try out. Thanks! :D |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by verslagen1 on 12/10/11 at 16:50:40 Oh no, you can't slinker away now. tie him to the post boys, somebody tape his eyes open. ;D |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by verslagen1 on 12/10/11 at 19:23:58 I wonder what the total production capacity of rotella vs klotz is? |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Oldfeller on 12/10/11 at 22:30:05 You would go ask a question like that, late at night when I am sleepy and stupid enough to go search for it. source: http://www.atvsource.com/articles/articles/2006/100906_klotz_a_history_of_running_on_lubricants.htm The company was founded in 1959 by John C. Klotz Jr. He was a racer and he was concerned about the proper lubrication of the engine of his racing machine. The company employs 15 people and has been offering products for ATV enthusiasts almost as long as there’s been ATVs. “Our synthetic lubricants have always been popular with two-stroke motorcycles and ATV racers,” explained Straughton Wade, communications director for Klotz. “Since the dramatic increase in four-stroke machines in racing we have developed several synthetic lubricants that meet these demands as well.” He added that Klotz synthetic lubricants also are ideal for utility quads. A company composed of 15 people, who built two stroke racing oil (intended to be mixed into the gasoline) up until a decade or so ago when two strokes pretty much went away due to EPA restrictions. Wow, that's hard to swallow .... so I went to Thomas Register to look up the company http://www.thomasnet.com/profile.html?cov=NA&which=comp&what=klotz+racing+lubricants&searchpos=1&cid=30356194 http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/Screenshot-Klotz_Synthetic_Lubricants_Fort_Wayne_Indiana_-_Mozilla_Firefox.jpg .... and with the address in tow I went to Google Maps and looked it up in Satellite Mode so I could see the small building, stuck out next to a corn field. http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/Screenshot-7424_Freedom_Way_Fort_Wayne_IN_-_Google_Maps_-_Mozilla_Firefox.jpg Hey guys, I don't think Klotz has any refining capability at all as this is the only place Thomas Register has listed for them, period. Zooming in on the building shows a loading dock on the back of the larger warehouse looking building with enough room to unload six trucks at a time. It looks like a relatively small set up of warehouse and office ..... they could buy ester stock from Exxon or Shell in 55 gallon drums, open the bung plug and add in their additives and food coloring, mix it up good then decant it into quart bottles then peddle it in cases mail-order from a manufacturing space about that big. That's Klotz .... all of it. If you can find more, please do show it to us. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Oldfeller on 12/10/11 at 23:20:31 Indiana Small Business listings show this information: http://www.manta.com/c/mmfygqc/klotz-synthetic-lubricants Klotz Synthetic Lubricants Business Information Business Information Location Type Single Location Annual Revenue $2.5 to 5 million Employees 10 to 19 (seasonal?) 11 ** current Years in Business 52 State of Incorporation Indiana SIC Code 539901, General Merchandise-Retail NAICS Code 452990, All Other General Merchandise Stores Klotz is not listed as an oil refiner or manufacturer at all -- they are listed as "general merchandise-retail" under All Other General Merchandise Stores ;D ...... durn, them nasty ol' data facts smart & sting all bad like, don' they? Company Contacts Phone: 260-490-0489, 800-242-0489 (toll free) John Klotz, Owner John Klotz John Klotz Jr, President John Klotz Jr Jeremy Barnes, IT Executive Jeremy Barnes this guy deserves a raise for keeping the Klotz legend alive (and keeping the Klotz secret secret) Joe Horstman, Site Manager Joe Horstman |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by dasch on 12/11/11 at 00:49:18 3B3E2C3C375F0 wrote:
Geee, it appears Suzuki is not the only brand doing it. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by verslagen1 on 12/11/11 at 01:06:33 You gotta wonder which 2 doofs couldn't park straight if there lives depended on it. :o http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/Screenshot-7424_Freedom_Way_Fort_Wayne_IN_-_Google_Maps_-_Mozilla_Firefox.jpg |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by bill67 on 12/11/11 at 04:05:20 504354554A4741434817260 wrote:
I wonder what the total production capacity of Roll Royce vs Yugo. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Oldfeller on 12/11/11 at 05:47:44 Out of the 11 employees (less the Webmaster, Daddy and Jr and the guy that runs the shop) I wonder how many petrochemical engineers they have to run the various expensive development test rigs .... Oh, that's right -- Klutz doesn't have any test rigs, they jest put the experiments together and sold then the stuff to the dumb suckers and the dumb suckers "exclusively race tested" the experiments and then told Klutz and son that they had "zero wear". All the local Bills out there did all their "exclusive" and "extensive" race testing for them to base their advertising claims on .... so they based their claims on what Bill said !! That's why the place is so small -- no need for any engineers of any type at Klutz & Son --- they don't need none of them sticky tacky mean old facts or any of that narsty data stuff. They gots them a Webmaster on their board !!! And the same class of business license as a general store would have ..... so whadda ya expect from them? (if the son was a dirt track racer back when I was a kid, then how old is his old man now? 80-90 or so?) Bill old buddy, dem narsty ol' facts have done come home to see you again ..... |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Oldfeller on 12/11/11 at 06:59:15 Klotz (11 employees) vs Shell Oil Company (22,000 employees in the US alone) ...... which one is the Yugo again? |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by bill67 on 12/11/11 at 07:20:01 Theres a factory less than a mile from me as big as the klotz factory,that employees 3 people,Thats called mordern automation. Its all done automatic by machines. 8-) |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by bill67 on 12/11/11 at 07:21:55 0B2820222128282136440 wrote:
The Yugo is the cheap stuff,you know cheap oil. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Oldfeller on 12/11/11 at 08:45:07 Durn, I thought a Yugo was a 1980's crappy, now totally obsolete Serbian built car that nobody was happy with. Bill, that doesn't make any sense at all .... To make your automobile type analogy work for Rotella products you would have to find something automotive that was popular, well tested, that people liked and believed in a lot, that gave a lot better value than its purchase price would indicate, that people tended to hold on to gladly and that they drove happily for lots and lots and lots and lots of miles. so, the white jug Rotella T dino oil is kinda like a VW Beetle and Rotella T6 Synthetic is kinda like a turbocharged Subaru ..... and I then looked for something senselessly overly-expensive and oddly rare that captured the homegrown midwest non-technical heritage of Klotz & Son oil products that made some comparative sense. Something 11 farm boys could really build .... [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBy5Hb3PWdQ&feature=related[/media] |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by bill67 on 12/11/11 at 09:06:08 I have read in here no different in the Rot oils just different color jugs.I do believe they would be too tough of oil for the Yugo.Gyrobob said it not me. You heard it here first -- Bill just said it ..... (read it tomorrow on the Klotz testimonial pages) |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by dasch on 12/11/11 at 09:34:00 Hey hey, Yugo is in my neck of woods... no oil is too tough for that thing! It burns any and all oils equally quick! |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Skid Mark on 12/12/11 at 20:10:44 I've used Rotella triple protecttion in my S40 and C50 for the past 3 years. 10,000 km on the S 40 and 20,000 km on the C50. Both ran great. As stated it does meet the Suzuki oil spec ratings. I'm on forums for the C50 and C90 where The Rotella t6 and triple protection oils are also recommended by riders with lots more miles and experience than me. Just cause its cheaper, doesn't mean it's not good. The real key is regular oil changes. Thats the cheap insurance, no matter how expensive you oil is. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Oldfeller on 12/12/11 at 20:20:48 Lots of people on lots of different types of bike boards recommend Rotella T triple protection for their favorite dino oil, and the same boards speak well of T6 as a very good synthetic oil. Our Savages have 2 distinct things that need what Rotella has in it: #1 is our antique flat tappet style cam actuators that require 1200 ppm of ZDDP to live a good life. #2 is our wet clutch pack that seems to lack a lot of the "overkill / overcapacity" some bike clutches seem to have built into them. Our stock clutch can get the job done OK, with just a little bit left over. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Gyrobob on 12/13/11 at 06:38:53 5C7F7775767F7F7661130 wrote:
The riders on the FJR-1300 forums swear by Rotella as well. Well, most of them do,.. some think that oil made for diesel motors is just stupid. Those guys are not very smart. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by bill67 on 12/13/11 at 07:30:58 Sounds like theirs a few smart guys there,diesel oil in a motorcycle is stupid.Klotz is designed for motorcycles and motorcycles with wet clutches. 8-) |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Gyrobob on 12/13/11 at 08:30:25 6D66636339380F0 wrote:
There are lots of smart guys there. The ones who think Rotella is not good just haven't caught on yet. I'm afraid I was a little caustic in my previous post. They aren't stupid (probably), just ignorant,.. and I use the term "ignorant" in the good sense. Like when we call you ignorant, bill. We don't mean you are stupid, we just mean you haven't caught on yet. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by bill67 on 12/13/11 at 09:23:16 Gyro when you get a little older and have more experience I'm sure you will catch on to the difference of motorcycle high performance oil and diesel oil. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by EJID on 12/13/11 at 09:57:59 7A7174742E2F180 wrote:
I think we probably know the only reason your Klotz would make it any quicker... because it lightens your wallet that much quicker ;D |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by verslagen1 on 12/13/11 at 10:01:33 Gyr, when you're as old as bill, you don't need any more experience. 666D68683233040 wrote:
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Oldfeller on 12/13/11 at 11:30:36 ;D I got me visions of Yugo Bill a rockin' his way slowly on down the road, weaving right & left back & forth back & forth. His two diagonal flat tires have done come off the rims now and he makes him some sparks occasionally now when the stationary front steel rim hits the pavement as his blocky little car rocks diagonally back & forth & back & forth as he "Yugo waddles" along.... He's been leaving him a foot-wide swath of red behind him for the last quarter mile now, where his gas/Klotz mix from his busted head gasket has been hittn' the pavement. See Verslagen hand EJID a fresh book of matches, EJID then hands it over to Gyro. See Gyro strike the match and flick it into the end of the red trail. See the Klotz flame up all smoky like and begin to slowly creep up the red trail back towards waddlin' rockn' Bill. It's a natural darwinian race, you see ---- Bill vs the burning Klotz trail. A little sand (a couple of appropriate facts) could put the fire out, easily. But Bill, he ain't got him no sand -- he doesn't believe in it at all. Bill is completely feckless & factless .... by his own choice. ..... and it is slowly catchin' up to him, sure 'nough. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by bill67 on 12/13/11 at 12:58:05 The header on here says suzuki oil vs klotz And you guys have 6 pages of BS on here. If you don't know anything about it which you don't you should have said nothing. ::) |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Oldfeller on 12/13/11 at 13:03:54 .... six pages of BS, really now Bill -- anything I said about Klotz was true and it was referenced back to the factual sources I got it from. No sand here, Bill --- them smoky Klotz flames are getting closer and closer |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by bill67 on 12/13/11 at 13:12:38 OF how does Suzuki oil compare to Klotz High Performance Racing Oil. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Oldfeller on 12/13/11 at 13:17:53 Bill, Klotz High Performance Racing oil is a brand new offering from Klotz which is like most of the new RACING OILS -- it isn't recommended for street use in catalytic converter automobiles. HOWEVER, Klotz broke with their past secrecy and actually tells you what's in it -- and it has what, 1850 ppm of ZDDP so it has the ZDDP that a Savage engine needs. So, finally Klotz is making a brand new HIGH PERFORMANCE oil that is finally suitable for the Savage -- how much does it cost again? |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by bill67 on 12/13/11 at 13:23:36 Klotz High Performance Racing Oil is only 40 years old. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Oldfeller on 12/13/11 at 16:31:40 You don't know about it, do you? Mx4 isn't the only 4 stroke oil Klotz has any more ..... The Webmaster hasn't finished all his links and you can't find it because it isn't all easy and obvious. Finally, Klotz gives Bill a handful of sand to throw on the flames tracking up the red oil slick ---- and Bill can't find the sand !!! A real 4 stroke racing only Klotz oil with enough ZDDP to keep a Savage happy and Bill can't even post a picture of the new bottle. :D Watch out there Bill, there's a sharp hook in that there handful of sand, buddy -- is it a motorcycle rated oil ???? |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Oldfeller on 12/13/11 at 20:35:02 <OH NO MR.BILL !!> http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/KLZ-KE-940.jpg Is that an Energy Star on that new Klotz bottle ??? Wrong stuff, I am afraid -- plus they only want $17.95 a quart for it .... ;D poor Bill, he can't win fer losin' |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by bill67 on 12/14/11 at 06:03:35 OF thats automobile racing oil not motorcycle oil,and the list price is 12.95 a quart but you can find it cheaper than that. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Gyrobob on 12/14/11 at 06:30:59 262D28287273440 wrote:
You can find oil at least as good as any Klutz oil for about 1/4 the price at Walmart. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by EJID on 12/14/11 at 08:43:21 Now, I'm curious what Klotz is in Bill's bike... $13.35 List Price http://www.klotzlube.com/largeprodimages/KL-840.jpg or maybe $13.53 List Pricehttp://www.klotzlube.com/largeprodimages/KL-880.jpg or even ;D http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_f3fTVkavMVg/SbgXMk2UXEI/AAAAAAAABbE/k2yJ49jnudo/s400/evil_kool_aid.jpg |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by bill67 on 12/14/11 at 08:44:54 Gyro how did Klotz work out for you? |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by bill67 on 12/14/11 at 09:00:51 I use the Mx4 15w/50 its been out for three years now and is one of their best rated oils. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Gyrobob on 12/14/11 at 12:23:38 3D36333369685F0 wrote:
Could not tell any diff. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by built2last66 on 12/14/11 at 17:36:14 This thread is greasy.. lol |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Oldfeller on 12/14/11 at 18:34:01 Built2last66 Now that you got your hands free & worked the gag out of your mouth and got the tape off your eyelids ..... which oil did you finally go with? |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by teabowl13 on 12/14/11 at 19:42:19 283F23263E78262B393E7C7C4A0 wrote:
Every day it's like a brand new episode of Toddlers And Tiaras! ;D Why is it that oil threads are always like this? Every forum i've been on, it seems that OIL seems to cause the biggest wars... Hmm... guess it's just like everywhere else in the world. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Oldfeller on 12/14/11 at 20:23:38 We have a long standing tradition here of enjoying our factually based oil wars ... Newbies ask us oil questions on purpose, then grin and drop down into their fox holes and cover their ears -- the fun is sure to start immediately. We have a lot of fun with the questions, but please remember the very best most effective mortar rounds are completely truth based. In a sea of perfectly good useable motor oils, we do have to sort out the car ones with the energy stars and the ones that lack the ZDDP levels (1200 ppm and up) that our old flat tappet Savages need. There is a strong preference for JASO-MA bike oils, but we don't always care for the big price tags that go with them. Not only do they charge too much per quart, they won't always tell us what is in them. Diesel oils come across pretty good as "known for what's in them" and for not costing an arm and a leg to get the ZDDP our Savage engines require. Diesel oils do cost less as they are sold in a market where 5-8 big white gallon jugs comprise a normal oil change. Rotella is neat because it is JASO-MA rated as a bike oil, and it comes in the big diesel packaging so it comes at a lower price than all the rest of the JASO-MA oils. Yes, Bill generally gets "killed" at the end of each oil war, but he seems to take no lasting damage from it -- he's always back pluggin' his Klotz fer the next one. Klotz is getting better about saying what's in the bottle -- they are using an estorline base oil (built up from smaller molecules) and they are now stating how much ZDDP they are putting in to the automobile non-catalytic RACING ONLY oil. Shame they won't say as much about the other oils they sell .... Klotz has been detail compared to other oils 3 times now by 3 different people, and the gist seems to be "it shows no advantage" to the more standard oils we compare it to. For example, Bill made the initial mistake of going with a 15w50 weight as his preferred contender, and he lost across the board on a data driven comparison to Rotella Synthetic at 5w40 weight, mainly because his hot weight was too high for the Savage engine and it adversely affected head cooling. His heavier weight oil was slow to pick up the engine heat at the head and slow to release it to the crankcase aluminum walls ... Some of Bill's claims may sound outlandish to you -- until you start to read all the stuff on the Klotz testimonial pages written by all the rest of the Bills out there. We jest had to test the stuff just to make sure it really wasn't red magic like the Bills say, but alas 3 times it has let us down. I think it is because we testers are cynical unbelievers and the Klotz magic only works for those who clap for Tinkerbell and truly believe enough for the sparkles to start kicking in ..... ;D |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by verslagen1 on 12/14/11 at 21:20:30 in case you were wondering... http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1283117891/0 |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by built2last66 on 12/14/11 at 22:20:15 5F7C7476757C7C7562100 wrote:
Sitting here with a gallon of Rot Triple 15w/40 in my room... I plan on trying T6 after this is gone.. Oils, metals, and engines are all foreign to me... so I've learned quite a bit from this thread... I don't mind playing in the mud :D |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Oldfeller on 12/14/11 at 23:24:07 Oh my, Bill .... The newbie has done voted. Bill, you done lost the oil war yet again .... ===================== Oldfeller addresses the Kangaroo Kourt for final sentencing Yer Honor, since Bill still hasn't quit making stupid Seafoam and silly Klotz recommendations to Innocent Impressionable Newbies as you did sentence him to do after losing the last 2 oil wars, we respectfully submit that his name be officially changed here on the list to Yugo. When he gets caught doing it again, all list members will immediately refer to him as "Yugo" and post a live link to the attached sentencing video. If he gets caught telling newbies to put Seafoam in the crankcases of their Savages again, the moderators will thereby be authorized to change his login name to Yugo permanently. SENTENCING VIDEO [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqTKZgEW8pM[/media] |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by bill67 on 12/15/11 at 01:45:49 382F33362E68363B292E6C6C5A0 wrote:
Sitting here with a gallon of Rot Triple 15w/40 in my room... I plan on trying T6 after this is gone.. Oils, metals, and engines are all foreign to me... so I've learned quite a bit from this thread... I don't mind playing in the mud :D[/quote] Why don't you use 10w40 rot oil.The 15w will make your engine run way to hot. And suzuki don't recomend 5w/40 oil,I see your really in a bind here. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Oldfeller on 12/15/11 at 01:55:21 Psssst, hey Bill ..... Try to speed up if you can, them burnin' Klotz flames are a coming up behind you .... ;D throw some facts on them smoking flames, man --- iff'n you can. Call them Klotz boys up direct fer cryin' out loud, it isn't like I didn't give you their phone numbers. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by bill67 on 12/15/11 at 02:04:11 KLOTZ Hi performance TechiniPlate Mx4 15w/50.Zero wear oil. 8-) It cost a little more but you can go double the mileage before you need to change the oil,Plus you have smooth shifting,I use their fork oil to very little stickion if any. 8-) |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/15/11 at 06:51:03 Yes, Bill generally gets "killed" at the end of each oil war, but he seems to take no lasting damage from it -- he's always back pluggin' his Klotz fer the next one. Why would you want to call him Yugo? Jason was the guy who wouldnt stay dead. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Gyrobob on 12/15/11 at 07:04:59 OF, I do get a kick out of your Yugo/bill67 linkage. Yes, the Yugo was a miserable failure here. The car, though, did have some challenges just to its very existence that no other cars had to overcome. It started off as a Fiat 127, a reasonable and inexpensive little car for the masses, made in Italy (hence the quality problems), but if you got one that had everything screwed together properly, it worked fine and was reliable. Fiats are just Fiats. Get a good one and they are great. -- The 127 worked as well and held together as well as US-made competitors (Vega, Chevette, Escort, Fiesta, Pinto etc.) in the 80's. When Fiat stopped making the 127, the tools to make it ended up in Yugoslavia. With Malcom Bricklin's involvement (whole teams of engineers were sent there just to work quality issues, and for the US market, they created a special production line of elite assemblers that got lots more pay) the car was imported in the late 80s thru the early 90s. The car was doomed from the start. -- A good Italian design, but made by socialists with the communist manufacturing attitude (just fill the quota for today and go home, comrade) -- The design was somewhat outdated when the Italians made it, and became more and more obsolete in the 90s. -- The car was made by Zastava, a large and old company in Yugoslavia. --- The United Nations placed sanctions on Yugoslavia in the 90s the restricted manufacturing/export, leaving US dealers with dwindling inventory. --- This got a lot worse when NATO bombed the factory by mistake, thinking it was a gun factory. -- With no way to produce more than a few thousand cars annually, the company folded in the early 90s If they would have been given an even break, they might have survived. Who knows? They did have a few advantages -- they cost a lot less than their competition because labor was cheap, and the gov't subsidized them. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by built2last66 on 12/15/11 at 07:31:33 7C4249545954593B0 wrote:
I think Italy makes quality stuff... commies ruined the Yugo forever.. 584B5C5D424F494B401F2E0 wrote:
Verslagens data helped me make a decision too... Are we gonna start seeing Yugo67 posting soon? :D |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by bill67 on 12/15/11 at 08:36:31 You can't go by Verlagens data,He removes a lot of my post he don't agreed with. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by built2last66 on 12/15/11 at 08:54:22 4D46434319182F0 wrote:
So you're saying he made up that whole data sheet just to single handedly destroy the Klotz company? :-X |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by bill67 on 12/15/11 at 09:07:20 No.He said Rot oil was better before he did his so called test,Do you think he was going to say he was wrong.Theres been people on here that had S40 go 40,000 50,000 miles that didn't use Rot oil,And one used straight 50w oil,Which he and Old fellow say is no good. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by verslagen1 on 12/15/11 at 09:08:26 To paraphase an old joke... How do you tell when YugoBill is BS'n you? His fingers are moving. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by bill67 on 12/15/11 at 09:16:32 35223E3B23653B3624236161570 wrote:
So you're saying he made up that whole data sheet just to single handedly destroy the Klotz company? :-X[/quote] Now when you use the Yugo Rot diesel oil,Run it one day and then change it to get rid of all the dirt that was in the past oil you used. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by built2last66 on 12/15/11 at 10:06:15 Actually I think I'm gonna try the T6 first... OF do you have any videos of yer bike running? |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Oldfeller on 12/15/11 at 12:38:18 Got to ask the dragon guys, I don't have any film of myself running (I ain't that coordinated nor are my arms that long). Does anybody have any film of me running at speed? Dragon Killboy pics mebbe -- go to the Dragon thread and take a look. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1292661121/465 |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by built2last66 on 12/15/11 at 13:24:43 Your arms aren't long enough to walk around your sickle holding a camera while it's idling? I guess you wouldn't be able to crank the throttle a few times either then.. :( |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by verslagen1 on 12/15/11 at 13:44:47 Most often heard when OF goes by... "what the hell was that? " "did you get a picture? " "naw... took me by surprise" |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by built2last66 on 12/15/11 at 13:49:44 I couldn't find anything on the Dragon thread.. Look carefully at the post, see the link in red http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1292661121/465 Click on the link and it will take you to Cafe/sticky section/Dragon around post # 465 starts the last trip -- it has lots of still shots of my bike and the rest of the folks on that trip's bikes. Bill is making his standard "post lost laments" right now -- he's trying to find something to take the sting off it or make it look a wee bit better. He does this after every sentencing, generally speaking. He will generally wind up accusing somebody of lying about something fairly soon then it will get nasty. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by bill67 on 12/15/11 at 14:12:03 Last 66 be sure to get that additive that Old Fellow uses to add to the oil. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Oldfeller on 12/15/11 at 18:43:11 Bill, I doubt Built2last66 has a new stage 2 cam that requires a break in ZDDP booster, so he likely doesn't need the additive. Truth is, he doesn't need the full synthetic Rot Syn for a stock engine, but if he wants to pay a few cents less than he was paying for Suzuki oil and get him a synthetic with a good data history behind it, then go for it. I think he's jest funnin' you a little bit jest to watch you squirm and grumble about it some ... ;D |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by dasch on 12/16/11 at 10:44:39 49777C616C616C0E0 wrote:
I beg to difffer. Check items marked in red. We developed our own tools. Engine was ours. Italians gave us nothing, nor we asked for it. That explains even WORSE quality than Italian. Yugo started for Yugoslav market, not US. Only later we tried to export. Zastava small arms factory and Zastava Yugo factory are in the same compound. Allways been. Bombing was not a mistake. ;) Everything else is right and proper! |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Gyrobob on 12/16/11 at 11:04:09 I guess my sources were wrong. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by bill67 on 12/16/11 at 12:02:40 516F6479747974160 wrote:
Your sources on wheat are wrong too. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by built2last66 on 12/16/11 at 14:09:56 447A716C616C61030 wrote:
It appears that your sources are just worded differently, because Dasch just quoted you as saying the Yugo is from the US if you read his response, and the Yugo plant was still bombed either way right (assuming it was attached directly to the arms plant)? Not of this stuff is even cited in the Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zastava_Koral#Basic_information |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Oldfeller on 12/16/11 at 15:06:27 If they can bomb in the USA, does this mean we get to bomb YugoBill? ::) let's see, what sort of bomb would we use? We gots so many to choose from .... Utilizing the Antithesis Bombing Theorum ---- hit him with a large smartbomb |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by built2last66 on 12/16/11 at 15:17:16 How about a nice toilet bowl cleaner bomb.. 1 secret toilet bowl cleaner + a nice amount of tinfoil and a 2 liter bottle.. don't worry it's more like a novelty bomb, doubt it'd even blow your hand off since its a pressure bomb.. just really really loud :D |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by bill67 on 12/16/11 at 16:33:07 Bombs away!! |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by verslagen1 on 12/16/11 at 17:27:50 4C6F6765666F6F6671030 wrote:
What would it home in on? |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Oldfeller on 12/16/11 at 18:36:57 You'd have to crawl into the bomb bay tunnel, worm your way up past the smart bomb itself & go up to the guidance package, open the panel and and turn the rotor select knob to "maximum inverse targeting". It will then track and find YugoBill no matter where he tries to hide ... The explosion will be terrible terrible fierce though, a sort of matter and anti-matter type reaction will take place when it detonates against Bill's head bone, but once the huge mushroom cloud lifts the effects on the environment should be self-neutralizing. Birds caught in the mushroom itself may be affected, likely they will try to fly underwater or something of the like, so any air transmitted effects will tend to be self-removing. ;D ;D ;D Or, you could just wait for the Klotz flames to catch up to him .... let his magical favorite erl take care of him for you -- works like magic it does. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by dasch on 12/17/11 at 00:36:59 5C4B57524A0C525F4D4A08083E0 wrote:
It appears that your sources are just worded differently, because Dasch just quoted you as saying the Yugo is from the US if you read his response, and the Yugo plant was still bombed either way right (assuming it was attached directly to the arms plant)? Not of this stuff is even cited in the Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zastava_Koral#Basic_information [/quote] Quote from wikipedia: Zastava Automobiles (Serbian pronunciation: [zâ[ch720]sta[ch651]a]) is a Serbian industrial conglomerate based in the city of Kragujevac in central Serbia, currently run as a joint venture between the Fiat Group (67%) and the Serbian government (33%).[1] It is most known for its Fiat-based automobiles, which began assembling in 1955 for Eastern European markets. The firm also manufactures military and sporting small arms, most of them based on Russian and German design, under the name Zastava Arms. I am not sure, never actually been there, but I guess both factories are in same compound. Anyhow, they started with a copy of Fiat 127 I think in 70's, sold under "zastava 101". Thos actually had genuine Fiat engines first, then we started making our own. Not good. Yugo in shape US knows it came around 84 for Yu market, export started late 80's. And failed. It is a crappy car. Maybe it's because of bad oil?? Boy, wish we had Klotz back then... ;) UPDATE: wiki actualy says they started making cars in 55!! Must be that "Zastava 750", copy of Fiat 500 "topolino". FWDs came early 70s. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by built2last66 on 12/17/11 at 07:47:08 Don't forget that Wikipedia is not always 100% correct.. hence it being an encyclopedia by the people, for the people... [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif] |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by dasch on 12/17/11 at 08:12:17 yeah, this '55 makes very little sense... I think it's about 5-10 years later... nuff of Yugo history, between Suzuki and Klotz I choose Castrol! |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Gyrobob on 12/17/11 at 13:29:32 4D5A46435B1D434E5C5B19192F0 wrote:
Very true. That stuff is put in there by someone that wants it to read a certain way. No review of any sort, unless someone else modifies it. Snopes, for example, has a decidedly left wing flavor to it. Similar problem. We need a snopes for snopes, and a snopes for wiki. |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Oldfeller on 12/17/11 at 14:47:19 Hummmm ..... oil is getting even more interesting as the new car oil standards (newer than SM) get into full swing. New standard car oils are getting specified such that they WILL cause a wet clutch to slip eventually. Plus they are removing even more of the ZDDP compounds that we need in a Savage engine. Car makers are doing this because they must take out ZDDP to keep the catalytic mufflers working longer (EPA), then they must put in other things like moly powder and teflon to try to replace the ZDDP they took out. Clutch slippage in Japanese motorcycles has become so much of an issue that the JASO standard has been rewritten to become a very specific almost totally clutch testing based standard. JASO MA2 is the new standard, it breaks everything down into groups since motorcycles are beginning to grow catalytic converters too ..... ;) My Oh My, them erl wars are gonna get nasty over the next few years ... ...anyone who puts "any old car oil on sale" in their bike is in for an eventual nasty surprise. http://www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/4T_EV0604.pdf |
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Title: Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Post by Serowbot on 12/17/11 at 14:56:41 6F515A474A474A280 wrote:
Very true. That stuff is put in there by someone that wants it to read a certain way. No review of any sort, unless someone else modifies it. Snopes, for example, has a decidedly left wing flavor to it. Similar problem. We need a snopes for snopes, and a snopes for wiki.[/quote] That's because truth has a decidedly left wing flavor... ;D... |
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