SuzukiSavage.com - suzuki oil vs klotz

bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Reply #15 - 12/05/11 at 11:33:44 OF, what kind of data do you collect on your diesel oil.
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Re: suzuki oil vs klotz
Reply #16 - 12/05/11 at 11:51:08

Bill, I run a middlin' high performance engine (strongest proven not-blown-up-yet engine on the East Coast with 5+ mountain runs with lots of list members as witness). I run a high performance cam (Stage 2) and run in RPM ranges that normal Savages can't even get up to.

Every 2 years I change my oil filter (yup, worked up to 2 years now) and I publish the pics of the stuff I find sticking to the magnet and loose in the filter inside the Supermagnet thread. I replace my oil several time during that period by repeatedly topping off, but that is pretty normal for older Savage engines that actually get run hard.

I also publish my 3-5 year teardowns on my air filter in the air filter thread.

My claims for Rotella Syn? I let other people make all the wonderful claims, as I actually cheat on it by bumping up the ZDDP back up towards 1800 ppm level using Redline ZDDP booster. So my evidence would be polluted anyway, so I don't offer it up for anything.

Heck Bill, we can't even find proof that your bike even runs anymore ever since you admitted the battery needed replacing.

But if somebody is gonna spend the bucks to do a Verslagen take #2 on Klotz, at least he ought to get some data for his trouble and expense.

It would be nice if somebody found SOMETHING real that the red stuff did that was worth the $13 a quart price tag.

Grin

wintertime is oil war time -- jest to fill up all the boring wid somethin !!!

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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Reply #17 - 12/05/11 at 13:09:46 OF you should try Klotz once,the higher performance engines will benefit more.No blow by,more horsepower,more rpm,slicker shifting transmission.
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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Online Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28788 L.A. California Gender:	Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Reply #18 - 12/05/11 at 13:31:29 bill67 wrote on 12/05/11 at 13:09:46: OF you should try Klotz once,the higher performance engines will benefit more.No blow by,more horsepower,more rpm,slicker shifting transmission. You otta do that OF. but do it just like bill. Buy a brand new or low mileage bike. Fill 'er up with klotz, then park it. Otta last forever.
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Re: suzuki oil vs klotz
Reply #19 - 12/05/11 at 13:36:05

Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 12/05/11 at 11:13:30:

Built2last,

You will be the second person to attempt to impartially try out Klotz oil to see if it offers anything much different to the user.

How shall you judge your previous oil vs the Klotz oil?

Will you collect any data or evidence, if so what sort of data?

I wasn't trying to start up another oil war, I've used Suzuki brand since I got the bike not knowing jack nuts about engines or oils, figured I couldn't go wrong. I'm trying to slowly get into performance, and since I'm about to add a verslavvy I figure I'd try out a new high performance oil as well...

I meant for this thread to be purely Suzuki brand vs. Klotz, but what kind of oil do you use Old Feller?

And, how should I go about keeping data?

I've found Klotz Mx4 15w/50 for $8 a quart so far, which is $3 more per quart, so if for $9 I can keep a healthier engine it's worth it to me.

Smiley

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Re: suzuki oil vs klotz
Reply #20 - 12/05/11 at 13:50:02

Routy wrote on 12/05/11 at 06:48:46:

But forget the brands of oil, cuz I know there ain't a dimes worth of difference tween'm anyway.

the packaging is the difference...

was a maint tech in an audio accessories plant..
we would get containers loaded full with cassette head cleaners,or phone extension cords,or bananna plug jacks etc etc..

one day memorex labels another day radio shack or sears or whoevers label...
all the same product just different labels or blister packs or bags with a cardboard hanger top..
you dont always get what you pay for but you pay for the name on the label....

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Re: suzuki oil vs klotz
Reply #21 - 12/05/11 at 15:38:33

Built2last,

The last time Klotz was performance tested it was "against" straight stock Rotella T6 and Klotz lost on all points we were tracking, which were all temperature/friction related (head and sump both).

Much real numerical data was collected and we all enjoyed watching Bill wriggle frantically like a worm when the hook first kisses his butt when the numbers started coming in -- because numbers don't lie and Klotz didn't do so good wid them nasty numbers/facts/data stuff compared to stock Rot Syn (which cost like half as much).

Like I said, I bump up the ZDDP numbers in Rot Syn to the 1800 ppm level using a ZDDP booster, so my bike isn't a representative of anything except a steady case of excessive RPMs and the resulting low gas mileage figures.

============

What do you think makes oil "better" ???

What characteristics are you looking for?

How would such be measured?

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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Reply #22 - 12/05/11 at 17:11:19 You should have bumped your Rots with Klotz.
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Re: suzuki oil vs klotz
Reply #23 - 12/05/11 at 19:22:56

Why?

You increase your additive level (in this case the ZDDP level) using something with more of it in it, not less of it.

I wasn't trying to increase the level of red food coloring, you know ....

I was increasing the ZDDP level, which is a non-magical non-klotz good stuff they put in engine oil on purpose so it can keep your cam and flat tappet follower from getting symptoms of high speed indigestion.

If I was trying to increase the red magic advertising pixie dust content, then I would put some Klutz in there.

But, alas, I am an unbeliever ..... red pixie dust doesn't work for me.

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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Reply #24 - 12/05/11 at 19:34:56 Its all about the cost,But Klotz is cheap insurance.
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Re: suzuki oil vs klotz
Reply #25 - 12/06/11 at 05:53:38

Bill, Klotz doesn't do anything for a Savage engine -- we have tested it here on the list and found it raises head temperature, oil sump temperature while basically not doing anything for the performance of a stock Savage motor.

All it did was increase the friction loss of the engine as shown by the overall increase in operating temperatures on the bottom and top ends. And all your claims of "increased piston seal" blew right out the exhaust pipe along with the Klotz, as it did nothing to help an older engine lose less oil or make more power.

Bill, you need to stop offering recommendations to newbies as you have no factual basis to back those recommendations. And some of the things you say for newbies to do are potentially engine harmful, such as putting Seafoam (a fuel system cleaner) into the engine oil long term to "clean things up". This is an insane thing to do ....

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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Reply #26 - 12/06/11 at 06:09:25 You really didn't believe those bogus test did you,The oil that versy used before he said won,Now come on now,You and the rest of the people aren't in grade school.Rot won like iraq had WMD,All BS.
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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: suzuki oil vs klotz Reply #27 - 12/06/11 at 06:14:00 Rot cleans the engine so good you said you need to use 3 oil changes to get you engine clean
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Re: suzuki oil vs klotz
Reply #28 - 12/06/11 at 06:33:54

bill67 wrote on 12/06/11 at 06:09:25:

You really didn't believe those bogus test did you,The oil that versy used before he said won,Now come on now,You and the rest of the people aren't in grade school.Rot won like iraq had WMD,All BS.

Since they did find several hundred WMDs in Iraq, I guess your point is that Rotella is the best oil.

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Re: suzuki oil vs klotz
Reply #29 - 12/06/11 at 06:40:22

Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 12/06/11 at 05:53:38:

Bill, Klotz doesn't do anything for a Savage engine -- we have tested it here on the list and found it raises head temperature, oil sump temperature while basically not doing anything for the performance of a stock Savage motor.

All it did was increase the friction loss of the engine as shown by the overall increase in operating temperatures on the bottom and top ends. And all your claims of "increased piston seal" blew right out the exhaust pipe along with the Klotz, as it did nothing to help an older engine lose less oil or make more power.

Bill, you need to stop offering recommendations to newbies as you have no factual basis to back those recommendations. And some of the things you say for newbies to do are potentially engine harmful, such as putting Seafoam (a fuel system cleaner) into the engine oil long term to "clean things up". This is an insane thing to do ....

Agree completely. As an engineer with a lot of study devoted to air-cooled engines, I can testify that just about anytime you go against the wishes of the manufacturer (using oil additives, strange oils, bogus "cleaners" etc.) you run a great risk of doing something harmful.

Seafoam in the crankcase is a prime example since it alters the chemical makeup, lubricating properties, and viscosity of the oil.

As Oldfeller states, spouting this kind of "guidance" might well con someone new to engines into trying something that will cause them a lot of heartache and misery.

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