SuzukiSavage.com - 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly"

Gyrobob

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Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly"
Reply #780 - 04/16/12 at 17:40:04

mpescatori wrote on 04/16/12 at 12:22:14:

KO, I do not know what "small particle LDL" is.
I asked my wife (the Doc in the family) and she said "Oh, you mean 'micro-LDL?' " and explained.
So Docs know about it.
mpescatori, you apparently are getting your misinformation from some of the same places that arteacher does. Not unusual. there is a LOT of bad info out there. Most of what you stated in your post is just wrong.
OK, tell me what is wrong with what I said.
Explain why EU dieticians (including the Scandinavians) are wrong when they agree the Mediterranean Diet is THE way to go when you want to controlo weight and reduce the risk of heart desease and cholesterol-related issues.
Read this article, please:
http://huntgatherlove.com/content/wheat-belly
Written by a Cardiologist? No, written by a Psychiatrist, someone who knows her drugs and her opiates.
Or this one:
http://www.shoprite.com/Cnt/DiabetesMythDebunked.html
The point is, for every one article supporting Dr.Davus, there are just as many, if not more, debunking it.
Dr.Davus is a cardiologist, and I would never dare counter anything he says on the circulatiry system.
But for him to speak like a dietician or a nutritionist... or an endocrinologist...
...my son would say "Who does he think he is, mandrake?"
I have looked for a way to download the e-Book, but no such luck.
Until then, it's tomatoes and olives and fich and durum wheat, thank you very much.

All your sources and alleged "studies" do not compare the health of someone eating wheat and grains to someone not eating wheat and grains. They are all just opinion pieces. Most studies showing the mythical benefits of whole grains only compare what happens to someone who switches from refined flour crap to whole grains crap.

When you can find a robust, properly engineered study that shows someone who eats according to Dr Davis's system (no wheat, no grains, no sugar, no high-carb) has his health decline compared to someone who is in an otherwise identical situation but it eating grains, then I'll pay attention. Until then, you have little credibility.

When you read the book, and study it, I'll pay more attention to your opinions of the book. Until then, you have little credibility.

When you try this system properly,... meaning no wheat, no grains, no sugar, no high-carb,.. for several weeks at least, I'll pay more attention to your opinions on how it works. Until then, you have little credibility.

Trying Dr. Davis's system for a week or two and saying it didn't work is like saying, "sure,.. I tried lifting weights for a week or two, nothing happened at all except I got a little sore. I didn't get any stronger and I still look like a wimp. Lifting weights doesn't work."

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mpescatori

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Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly"
Reply #781 - 04/17/12 at 01:56:49

GyroBob, you (and I, perhaps) are taking this one-on-one tit-for-tat a little too seriously.

I have nothing against YOU as a motorcyclist, nor as a Man.

I have nothing against Dr.Davus as a cardiologist. I already said that.

I DO have a LOT to say against the average foodstuffs you will find in the average US supermarket, or the food you will find in the average US mall Foodcourt,
as opposed to the corresponding foodstuffs or foods in a European - better yet, Mediterranean equivalent.

I have lived, worked, visited the US extensively and was surprised to find "Italian Ciabatta bread" baked in the US has sugar in the list of ingredients.

As an example, I researched breakfast cereal. The latest fad cereal is Kellog's "Miel Pops", the European equivalent to Honey Pops (or Honey Smacks?).
I was not surprised to discover that non only do the EU and US cereals differ in texture, but in the list of ingredients as well.
The EU version has almost twice as much cereal as the US counterpart, and about half as much sweeteners, these being sugar, honey and corn glucose in this order.

This difference is found in just about anything, it is a fundamental element of the difference in food culture between the two continents.

"I have little credibility" you say.

The Mediterranean Diet refers to recipes which, in most cases, have changed little from the times of Homer and his "Odissey" to the present day.

Sardines and anchovies fried in olive oil is... fried fish fried in olive oil, no more, no less. Quite a difference to cod breaded and fried in lard, don't you think?

Roast leg of lamb roasted with rosemary and salt, with onions and carrots is exactly that.

A baked apple is a baked apple, but you may boil it in a teensy-tiny "apple-size" pot if you wish.

I am certain wheat sown in Italy is different from what is sown in Ohio. I can't vouch for Poland or Sweden, but I know what is sown in Italy, my brother in law has a MS in Agriculture.
I am also certain wheat is ground to different levels of coarseness in the two continents, and that they will have different kinds of preservatives added.
This means the same recipes prepared with different grades of flour will, in the end, result in similar products but with different levels of digestibility.

I can assure you that many preservatives commonly used in the US are outlawed in Europe, and many types of GM grains widely used in the US (or pushed for distribution to Africa and Asia) are banned from Europe.

Celiac desease has a different distribution in EU and US not only because of ethnic diversity - most "white" US citizens descend from immigrants originating in Northern Europe - but also because of different diets and quality of some foods.

This is not my opinion, this is history.

All in all... Dr.Davis may well pro to be the Galileo of 21st Century nutrition... Roll Eyes

...or he might not.

All things considered, chances are he will not.

The Mditerranean Diet has been around for over 4 thousand documented years, and proved to be healthy.

May I repeat,

FOUR

THOUSAND

YEARS.

That is enough for me.

Ride well, and eat whatever fancies you.

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Maurizio Pescatori, Esq.
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Mikuni BST40, K&N filter, Stage2 cam, Verslagen tensioner, Sportster muff, 120 proof moonshine, Pirelli MT 66 tourers... and a chain conversion too !

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Serowbot YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline OK.... so what's the speed of dark? Posts: 28660 Tucson Az Gender:	Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly" Reply #782 - 04/17/12 at 08:09:56 Is there a 50 page post about motorcycling on a Wheat Belly forum somewhere?... 'Cause,.. I'd like read that... ...
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Boule’tard

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Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly
Reply #783 - 04/17/12 at 08:42:37

Well to his credit, Gyrobob is trying to establish a forum just for wheat bellyers. When he gets it all set up, I say we go over there and bomb him with the most annoying motorbike threads we can think of:

What Oil is Best??? Cheesy

Should I Magnetize my Drain Plug???? Cheesy

Will Ethanol gas Gumm up my Vacuum Petcock?? Undecided

Then Gyro will try to say something and we can be all "Tsk, Tsk.. no, no, NO.. you'd have a lot more credibility if you'd just read the ASTM book!"

Meh. It's probably funnier in the imagination than it would really turn out.

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly" Reply #784 - 04/17/12 at 08:58:55 I think what Pesci said about the difference between the contents in the foods over there vs here is just VERY telling,, Thanks, Pesci..
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Serowbot YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline OK.... so what's the speed of dark? Posts: 28660 Tucson Az Gender:	Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly Reply #785 - 04/17/12 at 09:16:22 Boule’tard wrote on 04/17/12 at 08:42:37: Well to his credit, Gyrobob is trying to establish a forum just for wheat bellyers. When he gets it all set up, I say we go over there and bomb him with the most annoying motorbike threads we can think of: Belly'tard and Wheatowbot... ...
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arteacher Serious Thumper Offline Ride as if your naked and invisable! Posts: 2581 London ontario Gender:	Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly" Reply #786 - 04/17/12 at 09:33:47 Interesting bit on the news last night:brand name packaged foods manufactured for the Canadian market (soups, chips frozen dinners etc) have about 1/3 more salt in them than the same products do in the US. We be salty folk, we be.
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Gyrobob

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Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly
Reply #787 - 04/17/12 at 11:11:35

mpescatori, when I said you had little credibility, I did not mean you as a person, I meant you have little credibility discussing what is in the book, since you haven't read it yet. This still holds true. When you understand what is in the book, you'll have more credibility on this issue.

The fact that millions of people have done something wrong for four thousand years does not mean they should continue doing it. They have survived in spite of it, not because of it.

We have many millions of people in this country destroying their lives with alcohol and drugs. Many of them seem quite healthy. People have been doing this for a very long time. That doesn't make it good.

For thousands of years, people have been smoking. Many of them probably seemed quite healthy. I doubt you would say smoking was good for them.

Now it is becoming more widely known that wheat and grains are harmful. It is time for folks to learn about this and transition away from the recurrent damage caused by such poisoning.

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Gyrobob Serious Thumper Offline Posers ain't motorcyclists Posts: 2571 Newnan, GA Gender:	Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly" Reply #788 - 04/17/12 at 11:16:34 Serowbot wrote on 04/17/12 at 08:09:56: Is there a 50 page post about motorcycling on a Wheat Belly forum somewhere?... 'Cause,.. I'd like read that... ... What is the purpose of the Cafe forum? Are discussions on health not allowed?
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Boule’tard Serious Thumper ModSquad Offline Master of the Obvious Posts: 1620 Austin TX Gender:	Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly Reply #789 - 04/17/12 at 13:19:53 Serowbot wrote on 04/17/12 at 09:16:22: Belly'tard and Wheatowbot... ... I'd pick "Wheatus" cuz then I'd 1) rock 2) drive blood sugars to hyperactive kid range
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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly" Reply #790 - 04/17/12 at 18:38:37 If you don't eat your Wheatie every morning your not allow on motorcycle forums,Its plain and simple.
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Savage_Rob

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Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly"
Reply #791 - 04/17/12 at 20:12:20

arteacher wrote on 04/17/12 at 09:33:47:

Interesting bit on the news last night:brand name packaged foods manufactured for the Canadian market (soups, chips frozen dinners etc) have about 1/3 more salt in them than the same products do in the US.
We be salty folk, we be. Wink

It's odd to me how the ”same” products can be so different. I've read that Mountain Dew is caffeine free in Canuckistan too; something about Canadian law stating that, unless the soft drink is brown, the public should be able to safely assume it is caffeine free. Never tried to verify that I seem to recall thinking the source was generally reputable otherwise. I wish our products were closer to the descriptions of those in mpescatori's neck of the woods.

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mpescatori

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Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly
Reply #792 - 04/18/12 at 00:49:02

Gyrobob wrote on 04/17/12 at 11:11:35:

mpescatori, when I said you had little credibility, I did not mean you as a person, I meant you have little credibility discussing what is in the book, since you haven't read it yet. This still holds true. When you understand what is in the book, you'll have more credibility on this issue.

The fact that millions of people have done something wrong for four thousand years does not mean they should continue doing it. They have survived in spite of it, not because of it.

We have many millions of people in this country destroying their lives with alcohol and drugs. Many of them seem quite healthy. People have been doing this for a very long time. That doesn't make it good.

For thousands of years, people have been smoking. Many of them probably seemed quite healthy. I doubt you would say smoking was good for them.

Now it is becoming more widely known that wheat and grains are harmful. It is time for folks to learn about this and transition away from the recurrent damage caused by such poisoning.

Jeez, I'm trying to shake loose from this thread and here you are throwing your nifty Spiderman web from your shirtcuffs.
Huh

Er... you DO wear a shirt, I assume ? Cheesy

I have not read the book, for a number of practical reasons:
1) I can only obtain it by buying from Amazon.com or BN.com (i.e., based in the US) and pay more for shipping than for the cover price;
2) I am a biased old (well, middleaged) old fart of a biker who knows it is wise to be wary of snake-oil prophets.

Having said that, may I quietly observe:
- there is more to "doing so&so for a long time doesn't mean it was good for them" than what you say; one thing is to claim "We have many millions of people in this country destroying their lives with alcohol and drugs. ", another is to observe that getting drunk is social entertainment in Northern Europe, but disgraceful in the Mediterranean Basin. English, German and Polish teenagers will go on drinking sprees, Spanish, Italian and Greek teenagers will not (they will in a 10:1 proportion).

- you (individually, or as a social whole) have a very very odd sense of time, which is possibly due both to your history and to religious indoctrination. Many are convinced that "once upon a time there was the caveman, then Jesus came along and brought the Good Word", and will go as far as sueing a teacher for the mere claim that in 3000 BC the Egyptians built the Pyramids or that in 300 BC Rome was more civilized than many "modern" nations today.
"For thousands of years, people have been smoking." is clear evidence of what I say. Tobacco was introduced in Europe by the Dutch and the English in the 17th Century, just like coffee, cocoa and potatoes.
You are off by ... thousands of years...

Two scientists with a little more accreditation that Dr.Davis are Weston Price and Sir Robert McCarrison.
You can find an interesting comparison between the thesis of Dr.Davis and the findings of the two scientists here:
http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.com/2011/10/wheat-belly-toll-of-hubris-on-...

I take the liberty of two short quotes from the webpage:
"Although Dr. Davis provides no evidence linking modern degenerative diseases directly to the development of high-yield dwarf wheat, his hypothesis that the wheat of the last 50 years is quite different in its effects from the wheat of ages past is attractive both because of the ease with which we can reconcile it to several important pieces of scientific evidence and because of the ease with which this message can be spread to many communities who value the role that wheat has played in their ethnic and religious histories, a topic that Dr. Davis addresses with the sensitivity of a true gentleman. "
(Please note, I am giving him credit, not smacking him)

On the other hand:
"This hypothesis is, first and foremost, much easier to reconcile to the findings of Weston Price and Sir Robert McCarrison than competing hypotheses that target all forms of wheat with equal vigor. In his epic work, Nutrition and Physical Degeneration (1), Price documented the physical degeneration that consistently followed the introduction of "the displacing foods of modern commerce," which he identified as white flour, sugar, polished rice, syrups, jams, canned goods, and vegetable oils. Price nevertheless held the health-promoting value of whole wheat in high esteem based on several lines of observational, experimental, and clinical evidence.

"The most physically perfect people in northern India," Price wrote, "are probably the Pathans who live on dairy products largely in the form of soured curd, together with wheat and vegetables. The people are very tall and are free of tooth decay" (ref. 1, p. 291). "

I ask, again, to inquire with the medic of a sports team, how much of the diet of a trained athlete is composed of protein and how much is made of carbohydrates.
Sure, any quarterback will jump at the chance to eat a juicy steak for dinner, but the meal he has before a game will be based of carbs.
Ask Dr.Davis to deny that.

Now, about the engine shutting down at the lights if I drop two gears doing 40-0 on a dime... (more like a half dollar, front brake kind of stiff...)

Wink

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Maurizio Pescatori, Esq.
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Mikuni BST40, K&N filter, Stage2 cam, Verslagen tensioner, Sportster muff, 120 proof moonshine, Pirelli MT 66 tourers... and a chain conversion too !

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Gyrobob Serious Thumper Offline Posers ain't motorcyclists Posts: 2571 Newnan, GA Gender:	Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly" Reply #793 - 04/18/12 at 06:31:19 mpescatori, if you won't read the book, and therefore not know what is in it, your comments on the book have no credibility.
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mpescatori Serious Thumper Offline Romanum Thumperium Cavalco, yeaaah !!! Posts: 3547 Rome, Italy Gender:	Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly" Reply #794 - 04/18/12 at 06:55:42 Gyrobob wrote on 04/18/12 at 06:31:19: mpescatori, if you won't read the book, and therefore not know what is in it, your comments on the book have no credibility. Of course ! Just like reading the back cover of a tour guide of Europe doesn't mean you have actually visited the place... er... Continent.
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