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Gyrobob

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Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly
Reply #660 - 03/20/12 at 12:04:37

arteacher wrote on 03/20/12 at 11:13:12:

Just had a long talk with my wife's dietician. The grist (pun intended) of the conversation was: yes the palio, Atkins, and wheat belly diets, along with exercise, will help you lose weight. Most people who do these diets for a while and then adopt a healthy eating and exercise regimen will keep most of the weight off. For a normal person to stay on any of these diets for a considerable length of time, or indefinitely, is detrimental to your health, as they are not considered to be a healthy eating regimen, and cause damage to various organs. She had read a synopsis of the book, without all the "praise the lord god Davis, I'm saved" BS and had come to the conclusion that it was just a twist on the Atkins diet. As to the claims that it cured all manner of things, including MS, her comment was "That's a crock."
I enjoyed talking to an expert about this stuff, and it reinforced my gut (again pun intended) feeling about the whole issue. Roll Eyes

She's obviously just parroting the standard crock she was taught, which is the same crock spewed by the FDA, USDA, Monsanto, etc.

A very telling thing is how she said that curing all manner of things is a crock. I'd like to see her say that to the lady a few days ago who now is probably going to get to keep her toes, or the parents whose kid no longer exhibits any epilepsy, or the lady who had a lifetime of debilitating MS and within a few months gradually moved from a wheechair to crutches to a cane to being fully ambulatory. I guess your "expert" would just say those things didn't happen, eh?

I wouldn't be surprised for such an alleged expert to do something like that. Paradigm paralysis is very real thing. If I had a conversation with her and I told her of all the things that had just happened to me when I made only one change in my diet,.. no wheat,.. she'd say something to show how it had nothing to do with wheat but with something else, probably. Or,.. that it was all in my head.

She is of the same mindset of the USAF eye doc I talked to one time when I wanted a prescription for +.5 glasses. He said I didn't need them, I needed minus glasses. I told him what had happened to me in college when, on the advice of a vision therapist, I started wearing plus prescription glasses for studying and my vision went from 20/240 to 20/30 in a matter of weeks. He looked at me with a straight face and actually said, "that didn't happen." That thing that didn't happen allowed me to get into the USAF and fly F-4s.

How do you deal with someone like that who has paradigms so strong that can not see what is right in front of their face? Your dietician is one of these types. "She had read a synopsis of the book." Give me a break! That statement says a lot. What it says is she knows very little about what is in the book. The fact that she would badmouth something she knows nothing about speaks pretty poorly of her as a source for any advice at all. If I were you, I'd go find somebody who cares about reality, rather than focusing only on her own limited and faulty training.

If I were you, I'd be a little concerned about how you are denying you AND you wife the possibilities of vastly improved lives.

Sometime, let's compare the books your "expert" has written to the books the Doc has written, and we'll go to the backs of the books and start validating all the references. It's a very telling exercise,.. tedious, but informative. The way they use the references, the conclusions drawn, and the credibility of the authors in those references can be a primary indicator of the value of what is in the book itself. That is how I vetted this Doc's book. If you'll give me the titles of the books your "expert" has written, I'll vet some of her references and see how well she does.

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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly" Reply #661 - 03/20/12 at 12:13:49 Eat all foods just don't over eat and get plenty of exercise and you will be healthy.
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Gyrobob Serious Thumper Offline Posers ain't motorcyclists Posts: 2571 Newnan, GA Gender:	Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly Reply #662 - 03/20/12 at 12:16:01 bill67 wrote on 03/20/12 at 12:13:49: Eat all foods just don't over eat and get plenty of exercise and you will be unhealthy. Oh,.. Bill,...
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Savage_Rob

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Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly
Reply #663 - 03/20/12 at 13:01:18

Again, I'm just a layman but I do read a lot and try to understand how stuff works. It just makes it easier to remember and make use of. As I understand it, the whole low-carb thing functions because of lipolysis and ketosis, which is what the body does in starvation mode by switching from a primarily carb fuel source to a fat source. When the body's glycogen stores are depleted, lipolysis kicks in and begins breaking down fat into free fatty acids which most of the body can use for energy. Protein is a building block and is only a last resort for fuel. The brain can't use fatty acids for energy so it gets the last reserves of glycogen when carb deprivation begins. This is why some people feel cloudy or sluggish until ketosis kicks in roughly 48 hours later. When the liver's glycogen store are depleted, it begins producing ketones, which help break down fats and assist lipolysis. Acetone is one of these "ketone bodies" and can be used by the brain for energy. One of the warnings in the Atkins books was to avoid anything that uses aspartame sweetener because it can cause liver damage when the body is in ketosis. I believe is has a warning about phenylketoneurics or something similar on products that use it. Definitely beware if you are severely carb-restricted. Another very salient point is that ketosis causes the body to be more acidic than it otherwise would be. The body uses calcium (or was it calcium bicarbonate?) stores to bring this back into balance, which can lead to calcium depletion and osteoporosis. That said, it's necessary to eat sufficient base foodstuffs to counteract the acidity of a body constantly in a state of ketosis. I noted Dr. Davis spoke to the need to counteract acidity to maintain pH levels and avoid calcium depletion in the bones but did not mention that the diet itself causes greater acidity. However, as I said in an earlier post, I haven't finished the book yet, so it may not have been omitted; I simply may not have reached that yet.

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Gyrobob

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Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly
Reply #664 - 03/20/12 at 13:16:50

Savage_Rob wrote on 03/20/12 at 13:01:18:

Again, I'm just a layman but I do read a lot and try to understand how stuff works. It just makes it easier to remember and make use of. As I understand it, the whole low-carb thing functions because of lipolysis and ketosis, which is what the body does in starvation mode by switching from a primarily carb fuel source to a fat source. When the body's glycogen stores are depleted, lipolysis kicks in and begins breaking down fat into free fatty acids which most of the body can use for energy. Protein is a building block and is only a last resort for fuel. The brain can't use fatty acids for energy so it gets the last reserves of glycogen when carb deprivation begins. This is why some people feel cloudy or sluggish until ketosis kicks in roughly 48 hours later. When the liver's glycogen store are depleted, it begins producing ketones, which help break down fats and assist lipolysis. Acetone is one of these "ketone bodies" and can be used by the brain for energy. One of the warnings in the Atkins books was to avoid anything that uses aspartame sweetener because it can cause liver damage when the body is in ketosis. I believe is has a warning about phenylketoneurics or something similar on products that use it. Definitely beware if you are severely carb-restricted. Another very salient point is that ketosis causes the body to be more acidic than it otherwise would be. The body uses calcium (or was it calcium bicarbonate?) stores to bring this back into balance, which can lead to calcium depletion and osteoporosis. That said, it's necessary to eat sufficient base foodstuffs to counteract the acidity of a body constantly in a state of ketosis. I noted Dr. Davis spoke to the need to counteract acidity to maintain pH levels and avoid calcium depletion in the bones but did not mention that the diet itself causes greater acidity. However, as I said in an earlier post, I haven't finished the book yet, so it may not have been omitted; I simply may not have reached that yet.

Sounds like you have a pretty good handle on it. Ketosis, though, is just a symptom of lipolysis. In plain words (for bill) that means when the body is burning fat (lipolysis) for energy instead of carbs , it makes more ketones than usual (ketosis), which the body gets rid of in the urine, breath, sweat, etc. These excess ketones are more present when just starting into fat-burning. Keto-breath usually doesn't last all that long. Anyway, this is the crux of low-carbing -- burning fat because of a lack of carbs (makes you trim), instead of burning carbs and storing the fat (makes you obese).

Yes, the Doc talks about the body being very aggressive about maintaining a ph balance of 7.4. Like you say, the body will start sucking calcium out of bones if it feels it needs to to maintain 7.4. This is one of the tragedies of teenagers drinking a lot of cola,.. dumping gallons of acid in their bodies. I remember reading in the book something about an increase in the numbers of bones broken in HS, and that cola-drinkers were twice as likely to have bone problems.

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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly" Reply #665 - 03/20/12 at 13:50:30 I really should workout more I weight 2# more than I did when I got out of high school in 1957.
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Gyrobob Serious Thumper Offline Posers ain't motorcyclists Posts: 2571 Newnan, GA Gender:	Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly Reply #666 - 03/20/12 at 14:05:53 bill67 wrote on 03/20/12 at 13:50:30: I really should workout more I weight 2# more than I did when I got out of high school in 1957. Good idea, bill. They say working out can help you think better.
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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly Reply #667 - 03/20/12 at 16:16:02 I work out 5 days a week for 1 1/2 hours at the ymca been doing it for 5 years,I does help you think better.I also ride bicycle 7 miles a day 7 days a week,I will lose that 2 pounds pretty quick now with the nice weather 80 now at 6 o clock.Just finished my second donut today.
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arteacher Serious Thumper Offline Ride as if your naked and invisable! Posts: 2581 London ontario Gender:	Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly" Reply #668 - 03/20/12 at 16:35:19 Ketosis is very hard on the kidneys.
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Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly
Reply #669 - 03/20/12 at 16:40:45

The Atkins diet has been around for 40 years. I wonder who, if anyone, stayed on it all this time, and what kind of shape their liver and kidneys are in ? Huh

And Gyro, I am really glad WB is working out for you. You must be one of the many who are allergic to wheat. If I was allergic to tomatoes, and quit eating tomatoes, I would feel better too.
However, you made your point many pages ago, and now you have taken it to the level of fanaticism.
Just be happy and enjoy your new found health, and QUIT TRYING TO SHOVE YOUR FANATICISM DOWN EVERYBODY'S THROAT!
I am sure I am not the only one with this view. Huh

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Serowbot YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline OK.... so what's the speed of dark? Posts: 28660 Tucson Az Gender:	Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly" Reply #670 - 03/20/12 at 18:17:07 Art,.. if you ever get down to Tucson,.. I'll buy you a donut... Bill,... I'll have to get you two donuts... Gyro,.. can eat the baker,.. it's the only thing at Dunkin'Donuts that's allowed on the WB diet... ...
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Gyrobob Serious Thumper Offline Posers ain't motorcyclists Posts: 2571 Newnan, GA Gender:	Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly" Reply #671 - 03/20/12 at 19:34:46 arteacher wrote on 03/20/12 at 16:35:19: Ketosis is very hard on the kidneys. It is not.
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Gyrobob Serious Thumper Offline Posers ain't motorcyclists Posts: 2571 Newnan, GA Gender:	Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly" Reply #672 - 03/20/12 at 19:35:25 Serowbot wrote on 03/20/12 at 18:17:07: Art,.. if you ever get down to Tucson,.. I'll buy you a donut... Bill,... I'll have to get you two donuts... Gyro,.. can eat the baker,.. it's the only thing at Dunkin'Donuts that's allowed on the WB diet... ... What's she look like?
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Gyrobob

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Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly
Reply #673 - 03/20/12 at 19:42:09

arteacher wrote on 03/20/12 at 16:40:45:

The Atkins diet has been around for 40 years. I wonder who, if anyone, stayed on it all this time, and what kind of shape their liver and kidneys are in ? Huh

And Gyro, I am really glad WB is working out for you. You must be one of the many who are allergic to wheat. If I was allergic to tomatoes, and quit eating tomatoes, I would feel better too.
However, you made your point many pages ago, and now you have taken it to the level of fanaticism.
Just be happy and enjoy your new found health, and QUIT TRYING TO SHOVE YOUR FANATICISM DOWN EVERYBODY'S THROAT!
I am sure I am not the only one with this view. Huh

If I participate in a thread I started, and discuss issues dealing directly with the subject matter of that thread, I would think that to be fairly normal. That hardly makes me a fanatic. If you don't like the issues discussed here, don't read this thread anymore.

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Gyrobob

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Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly"
Reply #674 - 03/20/12 at 19:56:29

Quote:

The Atkins diet has been around for 40 years. I wonder who, if anyone, stayed on it all this time, and what kind of shape their liver and kidneys are in ?

There has never been a study that demonstrated that increasing protein intake damages healthy kidneys. Show me just one study!! Not assertions, not editorials, not quack dieticians,.. a proper study. They don't exist. In fact, a review published on the Nutrition & Metabolism site in September 2005 states that there is no evidence that a higher protein intake is a concern in this regard.

In none of the studies conducted on the Atkins diet has there been evidence of kidney damage.

However, people who already have severe pre-existing kidney disease often require a more limited protein intake along with regular monitoring of kidney function.

People with diabetes are at risk for kidney disease. Not because of eating protein but because of the damaging effects of high levels of blood sugar. Controlling carbohydrates is a good strategy for improving blood sugar control in people with type 2 diabetes thus decreasing the risk of kidney complications as well as other complications of diabetes.

As for liver health, there has never been any research showing liver damage from low-carb living. It is likely another theory that because Atkins allows a higher fat intake it will cause fatty infiltration of the liver. All of the studies done on people doing Atkins have examined liver function tests and have shown it to be safe. In years of clinical practice there has been no indication of liver damage.

Many people have fatty infiltration of the liver as a complication of obesity. It is called non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. It can become as severe as to cause serious complications. When treating people with elevated liver enzymes on a low carb plan it is common to see normalizing liver tests often within a short period of time, even before significant weight loss occurs.

The liver and kidney damage from low-carbing is just hype,.. worthless, false, hype.

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