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Gyrobob Serious Thumper Offline Posers ain't motorcyclists Posts: 2571 Newnan, GA Gender:	Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly" Reply #645 - 03/19/12 at 09:56:08 If I say you are wrong about something, it is a comment, not an insult.
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Savage_Rob

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Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly
Reply #646 - 03/19/12 at 11:56:36

With regard to Paleo, the idea with that one is that we should be eating what our pre-fire ancestors ate. It's been a long time since school and I haven't looked it up so I can't say whether man had harnessed fire before the end of the paleolithic era. In any case, that's the originator's reasoning for naming his diet as such. In general all fruits and vegetables should be raw though he made the allowance for cooking meat. Dairy (other than human) was out and that stopped when you were weaned by your mother. As I recall, some plant-based foods were limited to small quantities or left out entirely because, in their uncooked form, they were largely indigestible or caused gastric distress. These would include grains, legumes, corn, potatoes, etc. The diet was intended to be largely plant-based but also included lean meats. Fatty meats are excluded because the "cavemen" ate meat from wild game which was rarely fatty. I've read some other more recent additions to this that advocate lots of low impact activity instead of lesser amounts of high impact activity (i.e. lots of walking, swimming, etc. and less high-cardio aerobic workouts). The idea is based on the theory that we evolved generally as nomadic hunter-gatherers where many hours of walking and general activity occurred each day and only occasionally did we exert extreme amounts of energy.

As an aside, and simply something I found interesting is that our lack of fur and ability to sweat to shed body heat enabled us to also become long-distance runners who could fell prey by basically wearing it down until its own body heat caused it to collapse. Those were steady, paced, long distance hunts carried out by a group of hunters rather than an individual to keep the prey on the move.

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arteacher

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Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly"
Reply #647 - 03/19/12 at 12:36:29

Paleolithic man had fire. It enabled him to cook meat to make it safer to eat (kill the parasites), and to smoke and dry it to make it last longer. Some (most?) vegetable matter is much easier to digest if it is cooked.
We know they had fire from the remains of fire "places" found at paleolithic living sites, and because they would have needed torches to paint cave walls, and they also used charcoal as a pigment. They had cooking utensils as well. A tightly woven basket was filled with water and cooking stones, which had been heated in a fire , were placed in in the water to make it hot. If the stew got cold they would put another hot stone in it.

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Savage_Rob

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Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly"
Reply #648 - 03/19/12 at 14:17:09

arteacher wrote on 03/19/12 at 12:36:29:

Paleolithic man had fire. It enabled him to cook meat to make it safer to eat (kill the parasites), and to smoke and dry it to make it last longer. Some (most?) vegetable matter is much easier to digest if it is cooked.
We know they had fire from the remains of fire "places" found at paleolithic living sites, and because they would have needed torches to paint cave walls, and they also used charcoal as a pigment. They had cooking utensils as well. A tightly woven basket was filled with water and cooking stones, which had been heated in a fire , were placed in in the water to make it hot. If the stew got cold they would put another hot stone in it.

That being the case, Dr. Loren Cordain, Ph D apparently misnamed his system/approach.

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Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly"
Reply #649 - 03/19/12 at 14:58:14

Savage_Rob wrote on 03/19/12 at 14:17:09:

arteacher wrote on 03/19/12 at 12:36:29:

Paleolithic man had fire. It enabled him to cook meat to make it safer to eat (kill the parasites), and to smoke and dry it to make it last longer. Some (most?) vegetable matter is much easier to digest if it is cooked.
We know they had fire from the remains of fire "places" found at paleolithic living sites, and because they would have needed torches to paint cave walls, and they also used charcoal as a pigment. They had cooking utensils as well. A tightly woven basket was filled with water and cooking stones, which had been heated in a fire , were placed in in the water to make it hot. If the stew got cold they would put another hot stone in it.

That being the case, Dr. Loren Cordain, Ph D apparently misnamed his system/approach.

Apparently.

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Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly
Reply #650 - 03/19/12 at 16:25:00

"ScienceDaily (Dec. 17, 2009) — The consumption of wild cereals among prehistoric hunters and gatherers appears to be far more ancient than previously thought, according to a University of Calgary archaeologist who has found the oldest example of extensive reliance on cereal and root staples in the diet of early Homo sapiens more than 100,000 years ago."
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091217141312.htm

Paleo my arse...
Now,.. go eat a sandwich... Huh

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Gyrobob

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Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly"
Reply #651 - 03/19/12 at 17:03:19

paleo schmaleo,... doesn't have much to do with this thread, anyway.

The big deal here is how many ways folks are helped by getting off of wheat. This is not part of some nutritionists scheme to coin some terms for a new diet to sell a lot of books and goofy meals.

This Doc has saved thousands of lives with this in his work as a preventive cardiologist. Along with that, he discovered the fortunate side effects of greatly reducing (sometimes eliminating) arthritis, diabetes, blood pressure probs, skin probs, etc. Oh, by the way, most folks lose weight with this scheme as well. All by just ceasing the consumption of wheat and any other grains,... and sugar.

The tangential discussion of what some caveman ate doesn't amount to much when:
-- You now don't have to go in for that bypass operation
-- Or when you can now walk without crutches
-- Or you no longer have to take all those evil drugs to control diabetes or cholesterol
-- Or (like me) you are liberated from the pounding headaches you had for the past forty years.

Someone can start up a p-word site if they'd like. I'll even post a few comments there just for grins. Lord knows, there are a gazillion p-word sites out there already. They don't have much to do with Wheat Belly, though.

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Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly
Reply #652 - 03/19/12 at 18:34:10

Yes,.. now that the entire theory of the "Paleo" diet is in the toilet...
Dr.WB can call it what it is...

It's yer' basic Hollywood beefcake diet... Stars of movies like "300", Troy, "Immortals", etc... do these high protein, low carb, diets, along with hiring personal trainers to get ripped for their "Swords and Spears" type roles...
And it works well for that,.. but, they don't stay on that diet.
When the movie is over, it's back to the food pyramid and a healthy balanced diet that includes grains...
Weightlifters look great, but they aren't that healthy... they usually die kinda' young...

I know you won't but it, Gyro... but maybe some others will...
Pretty good way to loose some body fat, if you need that.. but not a diet to live on...
For that, stick with the four food groups and the nearly universal recommendations of nutritionists world wide...

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Gyrobob

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Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly
Reply #653 - 03/19/12 at 19:01:54

I'm the one that said p-word didn't matter, not the Doc. And, I didn't say much about it other than that it does not apply to the purpose of this thread.

All I am trying to get done is to make folks aware of the harm, deep bodily harm, done by wheat and other grains.

If this were just a theory, an assertion, it would be easy to blow off. I thought it was just that when I first found out about it. Being the sceptic that I am, I spent a long time researching,.. getting past the hype and assertions.

This guy is on to something. He walks the talk as well, putting his whole career, his livelihood on the line by doing this,... bucking the omnipotent organizations like USDA, FDA, AMA, ADA, etc.

He also puts his patients' lives on the line as well. That is what drove him to publicize this.
-- He looks back on his early career and feels like, with the best of intentions as a Doc, he killed people.
-- He did what he was taught to do, like all the universal nutritionists.
-- People died. They died as usual, succumbing to the universal nutritionists' approach.
-- When he woke up, found out about wheat, and changed his practices, people lived.
-- Not only did they live, their quality of life was MUCH improved with the improvement in or disappearance of arthritis, diabetes, obesity, high blood pressure, etc.

Your four food groups, that universal nutritionists approach, and the nanny state's misguided ideas and subsidies, and agri-mega-business, are killing people.

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« Last Edit: 03/20/12 at 06:13:19 by Gyrobob »

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Savage_Rob

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Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly
Reply #654 - 03/20/12 at 06:28:19

Gyrobob wrote on 03/19/12 at 17:03:19:

paleo schmaleo,... doesn't have much to do with this thread, anyway.

The big deal here is how many ways folks are helped by getting off of wheat. This is not part of some nutritionists scheme to coin some terms for a new diet to sell a lot of books and goofy meals.

This Doc has saved thousands of lives with this in his work as a preventive cardiologist. Along with that, he discovered the fortunate side effects of greatly reducing (sometimes eliminating) arthritis, diabetes, blood pressure probs, skin probs, etc. Oh, by the way, most folks lose weight with this scheme as well. All by just ceasing the consumption of wheat and any other grains,... and sugar.

The tangential discussion of what some caveman ate doesn't amount to much when:
-- You now don't have to go in for that bypass operation
-- Or when you can now walk without crutches
-- Or you no longer have to take all those evil drugs to control diabetes or cholesterol
-- Or (like me) you are liberated from the pounding headaches you had for the past forty years.

Someone can start up a p-word site if they'd like. I'll even post a few comments there just for grins. Lord knows, there are a gazillion p-word sites out there already. They don't have much to do with Wheat Belly, though.

The point was that, regardless of the name, the diets are extremely similar. I find the WB diet to be nearly identical to the Atkins diet, but with a more thoroughly constructed rationale. Of course, it's now 40 years since Robert Atkins developed his diet and newer technology allows for more accurate analyses. Since this thread is based on an extremely carb limited diet, comparisons to preexisting diets which are extraordinarily similar are obvious and natural and therefore would be expected to be in the thread. Honestly, the only real difference I see with WB is the explanation/reasoning for it... not the diet itself.

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Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly
Reply #655 - 03/20/12 at 07:25:58

Quote:

The point was that, regardless of the name, the diets are extremely similar. I find the WB diet to be nearly identical to the Atkins diet, but with a more thoroughly constructed rationale. Of course, it's now 40 years since Robert Atkins developed his diet and newer technology allows for more accurate analyses. Since this thread is based on an extremely carb limited diet, comparisons to preexisting diets which are extraordinarily similar are obvious and natural and therefore would be expected to be in the thread. Honestly, the only real difference I see with WB is the explanation/reasoning for it... not the diet itself.

Yes, there are some similarities. In fact, for some folks who I knew would never take the trouble to study this stuff (and I knew they had a passing acquaintance with Atkins), I would refer to WB as Atkins with no grains,... just so I could either depart or start discussing something else.

With WB, the avoidance of grains, especially wheat, is not a perfunctory difference. It is HUGE. Taking wheat (and all other grains) out of the diet altogether separates the two schemes by miles. Also a significant difference between the two is how easy it is to stick to the system. See the appetite bullet below.
-- Atkins is mostly just low carb,.. which is a good idea, very healthy, and so forth. I did Atkins properly, starting in 2003. I averaged about 50 carbs daily for nearly a decade. Lost some weight, fixed up a blood yeast problem, enjoyed it overall,... but it required constant self-discipline and will-power, which, I will admit, became a habit after a year or two.
-- By "outlawing" any wheat, and most grain intake, WB goes way past low-carbing by removing all the toxic and addictive effects of wheat. I know this is just one anecdotal case, but I know personally how this works. I did it. I went from low-carb with wheat/grains to low-carb sans wheat/grains and had a set of life changes I never thought possible.
--- Appetite noticeably diminished. Hunger pangs gone. Apparently wheat really does have appetite stimulants in it. This effect here is what makes this system so much easier than Atkins. No self-discipline required. Will-power is not necessary. You are truly liberated from the constant distraction of worrying about and planning bkfst, lunch, and din din.
--- Joint pain and stiffness markedly reduced. I ride motorcycles and fly gyrocopters,.. the ability to crank my head around in traffic to look for other traffic behind me (like I did in my 30's) is huge. Also, I can now squat down to work on something for a while, putting a load on my knees, ankles, and lower back, and pop right back up again. No popping, creaky joints.
--- Lost some weight, 12 lbs. Now 204 lbs on a 6'3" bod. From less appetite maybe? Burning fat instead of carbs?
--- No more pounding violent headaches (this after 40 years of several of these brutal headaches per week).
--- Tinnitus diminishing (I'll admit this might be from not taking aspirin anymore).
--- Bruises and cuts heal faster, but, again, this might be from no more aspirin.
--- After decades of inconsistent fecal combat (up to and including IBS), I now enjoy a serene, gentle, and tidy regularity.
--- No more allegra, since allergy symptoms have abated. Sinuses are much more open now.
--- Skin problems way better. Some previously itchy/scaly areas (elbows, nose, ears, heels) are smooth now. No more fingertip cracks. No more metal rashes,.. after three decades of not being able to, I am wearing a wedding band again.
--- More stamina/energy.
--- No more melatonin, sominex, etc. Now when I hit the sack, a few minutes after my head touches the pillow, I am out.
--- No more caffeine required in the morning. This newfound energy level has replaced my need to get the brain started after waking up all groggy.
--- No more geographic tongue. Look it up. It's icky.
--- No more heartburn. Good-by tums and tagamet.
--- Blood pressure decreased from pre-hypertension to around 120/75.

Anyway, the biggy here is all these benefits are the result of low-carb WITH wheat/grains changing to low-carb WITHOUT wheat/grains. Life is better now.

I am not diabetic, but on the Wheat Belly FB page, over the past few months, there have been many (50?) people explaining how after a few to several months of wheat-free, grain-free, sugar-free, low-carb living, they are literally not diabetic anymore.

Use whatever labels you want and compare it to any other schemes,... Atkins, p-word, Weight Watchers, whatever,... The big deal here is what happens to folks when they do these five simple things:
1. no wheat
2. no grains
3. no sugar
4. Low, consistent, moderate carbs (40 to 70 daily for the average person)
5. Moderate (or more) exercise.

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Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly"
Reply #656 - 03/20/12 at 09:05:13

I'm considering trying it, though I'm not sure just how much difference I'd notice. I have been doing Weight Watchers for 5 or 6 years now and it is very simple to adhere to. I have been below my goal weight for years. I am not diabetic, rarely have headaches, etc. I have few maladies I would hope for it to alleviate. My knees and ankles got a lot better due to weight loss. My biggest complaints are some repetitive stress issues and some neck and shoulder pain because I work at a computer all day, don't take enough breaks and have developed poor habits regarding posture. I'm working on fixing those. I tried vegetarianism for most of 1988 and part of 89 and decided it was for rabbits and sheep; not me. I never regained my prior taste for beef after that though. It has nothing to do with any moral stance on animals or such; beef just rarely tasted as good to me afterward. I stick to mostly fish and poultry with the occasional beef or pork dish. I did Atkins for a few years about 10 years ago, lost weight and felt great. Maybe I see Atkins as so similar because I abstained from all grains, legumes and tubers when following it. For me it was just simpler to stick to the plan that way. It's difficult to compare then and now though. I was ten years younger and practicing martial arts 4-5 days a week. While I like plain Greek yogurt with a little cinnamon added and occasionally eat cheese, I don't like milk. I use unsweetened almond milk instead. Still, Dr. Davis makes some compelling arguments and I am considering giving it 3-6 months trial. Between all else, I still haven't finished the book yet and I will definitely do that first. I must admit, it's excellent bedtime reading.

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Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly"
Reply #657 - 03/20/12 at 09:46:12

Savage_Rob wrote on 03/20/12 at 09:05:13:

I'm considering trying it, though I'm not sure just how much difference I'd notice. I have been doing Weight Watchers for 5 or 6 years now and it is very simple to adhere to. I have been below my goal weight for years. I am not diabetic, rarely have headaches, etc. I have few maladies I would hope for it to alleviate. My knees and ankles got a lot better due to weight loss. My biggest complaints are some repetitive stress issues and some neck and shoulder pain because I work at a computer all day, don't take enough breaks and have developed poor habits regarding posture. I'm working on fixing those. I tried vegetarianism for most of 1988 and part of 89 and decided it was for rabbits and sheep; not me. I never regained my prior taste for beef after that though. It has nothing to do with any moral stance on animals or such; beef just rarely tasted as good to me afterward. I stick to mostly fish and poultry with the occasional beef or pork dish. I did Atkins for a few years about 10 years ago, lost weight and felt great. Maybe I see Atkins as so similar because I abstained from all grains, legumes and tubers when following it. For me it was just simpler to stick to the plan that way. It's difficult to compare then and now though. I was ten years younger and practicing martial arts 4-5 days a week. While I like plain Greek yogurt with a little cinnamon added and occasionally eat cheese, I don't like milk. I use unsweetened almond milk instead. Still, Dr. Davis makes some compelling arguments and I am considering giving it 3-6 months trial. Between all else, I still haven't finished the book yet and I will definitely do that first. I must admit, it's excellent bedtime reading.

Wow!! Sounds like you are 90% there already. It won't be a drastic change for you at all.

I, too, use unsweetened almond milk. The unsweetened unflavored kinds (either Silk brand or Almond Breeze brand) have near zero carbs,... 1 per cup I think. My own personal technique is to put 1/4 cup of heavy whipping cream in a 1/2 gallon of the almond milk. It makes it a very close copy of plain old milk,.. which I like a lot.

I'd really like to see you give it a shot. It sounds like you have a deep enough understanding of and experience with these things to do an accurate job of the Wheat Belly system, rather than so many folks that go through some of the motions, but still have to have their morning bowl of shredded wheat, so to speak. Please keep me posted.

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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28886 L.A. California Gender:	Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly" Reply #658 - 03/20/12 at 10:20:46 Here's a story about an atypical body builder... http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/mr-universe-1952-turns-100-credits-healt...
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Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly
Reply #659 - 03/20/12 at 11:13:12

Just had a long talk with my wife's dietician. The grist (pun intended) of the conversation was: yes the palio, Atkins, and wheat belly diets, along with exercise, will help you lose weight. Most people who do these diets for a while and then adopt a healthy eating and exercise regimen will keep most of the weight off. For a normal person to stay on any of these diets for a considerable length of time, or indefinitely, is detrimental to your health, as they are not considered to be a healthy eating regimen, and cause damage to various organs. She had read a synopsis of the book, without all the "praise the lord god Davis, I'm saved" BS and had come to the conclusion that it was just a twist on the Atkins diet. As to the claims that it cured all manner of things, including MS, her comment was "That's a crock."
I enjoyed talking to an expert about this stuff, and it reinforced my gut (again pun intended) feeling about the whole issue. Roll Eyes

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