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Gyrobob

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Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly
Reply #570 - 02/16/12 at 08:56:24

Savage-rob, it sounds like you are more than half-way there. I'd really like to know your reaction to the book.

You already have an appreciation for most of the basics. Once you actually learn the fundamentals about the unhealthiness of wheat (and grains in general), I'd expect someone like you that actually analyzes these things to be quite impressed, rather than just going with baseless beliefs like bill does.

Even if you don't read the book, if you were to be WFGFSF for 30 days, you would surprise yourself. I have not seen it fail yet.
-- Anyone who gives it a valid try always comes away impressed.
-- The several I know of that say it did not work, say things like, "oh, yeah, I did that wheat belly thing, but, hey man, I just can't live without sugar." or,... "Sure I'll cut out wheat, but I'll get all the grains I need from oats, corn, rice, etc." You can just dismiss these situations as being not at all applicable to what is in the book.

The book itself is quite different than what you would expect. I thought it was just another fad diet book.
-- I read it the first time with that mindset.
-- Afterwards, though, I started mulling it over. "Hey wait a minute!. There might be something here, but I better validate all this."
-- I spent several evenings laboriously checking the references in the back, of which there are hundreds.
-- In a previous life I learned that often these references were either simply made up, or, if real, they didn't at all support the author's point.
-- After verifying the first 40 or so, I stopped,.. figuring that it was a waste of time to keep validating valid references.
-- This guy, Dr. William Davis, did his homework and he corroborates it all with the thousands of lives he has saved as a preventive cardiologist. Apparently his motivation is to get the word out and correct the criminal situation the govt is foisting on us ("healthy whole grains").

My own personal experience backs all this up.
-- Try to imagine what it is like for me to be free of the intense headaches (several per week) I had for decades before this. No more headaches. It's so relaxing! I don't have to put up with constant side effects from hogging down aspirin all the time (tinnitus, easy bruising, slow healing, etc.)
-- Think about how it is such a pleasure (and a huge safety factor when motorcycling or gyrocoptering) to be able to twist my head around to look at things over my shoulder.
-- My neck used to make the sound of a turkey leg being ripped off a turkey on T-day
-- Now I can simply turn my head way to the left or right easily because the chronic joint swelling and inflammation is GONE!!

These are just a couple of the ways my life has changed. Here is a compilation:

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Savage_Rob

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Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly
Reply #571 - 02/16/12 at 10:29:54

I believe that wheat allergies do exist and are widespread (though the degree of affliction varies greatly from person to person) and have been a factor for mankind always. I also believe that reducing refined carbs as a whole is a healthy change for most folks. I don't yet have reason to believe that wheat, in and of itself, explains all the ills often attributed to it nor that avoiding it alone will perform some of the magic sometimes claimed. I think it's more likely the overall reduction of refined carbs that makes the greatest difference. Many of the anti-wheat "studies" use doughnuts and such as their examples of wheat and the ills they cause. They often don't attribute any of the problems to the sugar, fat and other additives in such 'foods'. I've heard it said that this is akin to vegetarians citing studies on the effects of meat using Slim-Jims as the meat source. I hope that's not the case with this book. I'll circle back after I read it. That'll be sometime after I finish reading 'The Complete Sherlock Holmes Collection', 'The Creature from Jekyll Island', 'Idiot America: How Stupidity Became a Virtue in the Land of the Free' and 'Bobby Singer's Guide to Hunting'. I'll probably try to squeeze it in before 'The Deceivers: Allied Military Deception in the Second World War' and 'The Road to Wellville'.

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Gyrobob

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Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly
Reply #572 - 02/16/12 at 10:38:52

Savage_Rob wrote on 02/16/12 at 10:29:54:

I believe that wheat allergies do exist and are widespread (though the degree of affliction varies greatly from person to person) and have been a factor for mankind always. I also believe that reducing refined carbs as a whole is a healthy change for most folks. I don't yet have reason to believe that wheat, in and of itself, explains all the ills often attributed to it nor that avoiding it alone will perform some of the magic sometimes claimed. I think it's more likely the overall reduction of refined carbs that makes the greatest difference. Many of the anti-wheat "studies" use doughnuts and such as their examples of wheat and the ills they cause. They often don't attribute any of the problems to the sugar, fat and other additives in such 'foods'. I've heard it said that this is akin to vegetarians citing studies on the effects of meat using Slim-Jims as the meat source. I hope that's not the case with this book. I'll circle back after I read it. That'll be sometime after I finish reading 'The Complete Sherlock Holmes Collection', 'The Creature from Jekyll Island', 'Idiot America: How Stupidity Became a Virtue in the Land of the Free' and 'Bobby Singer's Guide to Hunting'. I'll probably try to squeeze it in before 'The Deceivers: Allied Military Deception in the Second World War' and 'The Road to Wellville'.

I doubt you've read any anti-wheat studies. I've been researching this issue quite a bit for months now, and I haven't found any, let alone any that use donuts. I have found studies, as referenced in the book, that examine all kinds of things, and, as a result, have some surprising findings about how unhealthy wheat is. Maybe that is what you mean by an anti-wheat study.

I'm looking forward to your assessment of the book. It'll only take a few evenings for you to get through it. (the first time) BTW, you can download it as a Kindle edition for $9.45 from Amazon. If you don't have a Kindle, you can download kindle apps for your smartphone or any computer for free.

Here's a parting thought. If you buy the idea that blood sugar spikes are harmful,.. consider this: two slices of whole wheat bread cause a blood sugar spike more rapid and of greater intensity than a Snickers bar.

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Savage_Rob

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Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly
Reply #573 - 02/16/12 at 10:41:24

Nook and Kindle apps on my phone. Got it for the Nook app for the same price from B&N. Only 290 pages, should be quick. I may hit it first. On the bread vs Snickers, if true, I am a bit surprised because of the sugar in the candy but not astonished. I honestly think the peanuts are likely the difference and a Milky Way would fare worse but that's just a guess. I guess I could test in on myself and look at my blood sugar but no thanks. I prefer a handful of almonds or pistachios. Actually, I prefer several but have learned to limit myself.

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« Last Edit: 02/16/12 at 13:58:08 by Savage_Rob »

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly" Reply #574 - 02/17/12 at 10:37:45 learned to limit myself. Im not sure yet, Im still thinking, but theres a chance I may hate you.
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Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly
Reply #575 - 02/17/12 at 13:19:48

Heh, I had to learn to limit myself. Once I found out just how much better my knees and ankles feel at 175 instead of 230. I just try to keep it between 165 and 175. The latter part of December I'm often closer to 180. The holiday season has everything from tamales to pie and I make sure to enjoy it, though maybe not as excessively as I used to. I dedicate January to getting it back under control.

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Gyrobob Serious Thumper Offline Posers ain't motorcyclists Posts: 2571 Newnan, GA Gender:	Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly" Reply #576 - 02/23/12 at 16:57:01 Any of you guys have loved ones with MS or epilepsy or other nervous system maladies?
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Gyrobob

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Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly
Reply #577 - 02/26/12 at 05:58:24

Here's another example. This stuff is popping up more and more often on the Wheat Belly Facebook page. This soccer player was figuring his achy joints were just an aging thing. That's what I thought too, about my joints, but then my joints got all better. I'm 65 and my joints feel like they did in my 30's.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/woman/health/health/3911383/How-cutting-...

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« Last Edit: 02/26/12 at 07:00:34 by Gyrobob »

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arteacher Serious Thumper Offline Ride as if your naked and invisable! Posts: 2581 London ontario Gender:	Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly Reply #578 - 02/26/12 at 09:17:14 Gyrobob wrote on 02/23/12 at 16:57:01: Any of you guys have loved ones with MS or epilepsy or other nervous system maladies? My wife has M.S. I hope you're not going to try and tell me she will get better if she stops eating wheat!
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Gyrobob

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Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly
Reply #579 - 03/01/12 at 07:54:33

arteacher wrote on 02/26/12 at 09:17:14:

Gyrobob wrote on 02/23/12 at 16:57:01:

Any of you guys have loved ones with MS or epilepsy or other nervous system maladies?

My wife has M.S. I hope you're not going to try and tell me she will get better if she stops eating wheat! Shocked

No, arty, I won't. I will tell you, though, that several folks have chimed in indicating wheat has widespread detrimental effects on the nervous system that affect people in widely different ways.

Most MS and epilepsy and schizophrenia and ADD sufferers will see no benefit other than the kinds of things that have happened to me.

Some HAVE seen improvements with nervous system situations, though.
-- One lady said her kid with MS no longer has to use a cane
-- One MS lady, over a period of months, went from using a wheelchair, to walking with a walker, to using a cane, to walking freely.
-- A couple parents have said their kids no longer have epileptic fits
-- Many parents say their kids' erratic behavior smoothed out a lot after not eating wheat for a few days. No more ritalin, for example.
-- Believe it or not, dogs are affected by wheat as well.
--- One owner of a dog that had frequent seizures stopped feeding his dog a high-priced grain-based dry food.
--- They started feeding the dog whatever the family was having that day.
--- The seizures stopped.
-- A psychiatrist takes his patients off of wheat altogether, saying it greatly relieves mental problems (sometimes).

No, I won't say it will cure your wife's MS. It probably won't. However, it has made a huge diff in a few cases. Even those who don't get cured can still escape all the other wheat-induced maladies.

Dr. Davis has said he is continually amazed at the beneficial, but seemingnly unrelated things that happen with the removal of wheat from diet. He has said he has no idea what is going on with the improvements people are reporting in nervous system disorders, but it sure makes him happy, and he is anxiously awaiting the results of some study someone might do on this someday.

Nervous system maladies take more time to respond than things like joints and weight loss.
-- A lot of folks (the fatter ones) say they start losing several pounds weekly right at the start,.. unless they have a thyroid prob.
-- Same with arthritis sufferers; some say within days their pain disappears.
-- The Doc has said, though, that generally the tissues that have to do with nervous system function take quite a bit longer to repair or grow.

Try it for a few months. Even if there is a one in a hundred chance of it doing any good, I would think you'd want to find out, anyway. Give it a shot! What could it hurt?

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« Last Edit: 03/01/12 at 13:10:23 by Gyrobob »

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Savage_Rob

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Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly
Reply #580 - 03/01/12 at 08:31:13

I'm reading it along with a few others at the moment, so it's going slowly but I'm about half through the book. He has some interesting assertions, most specifically about how much wheat has changed, first through selective cross-pollenation and more recently through specific genetic engineering. His claims that wheat gluten has substances that act as "exorphins" (same as endorphins, but externally introduced into the body) which pass through the blood-brain barrier easily and contribute to a "wheat addiction" are also interesting. The author cites specific sources for most of his information though many are other books and papers whose underlying data may or may not be valid. There are so many it would be extraordinarily cumbersome to review all of them. I have checked out a number of the CDC and NIH references and they were valid but they only presuppose part of his assertions. I'm reserving judgment on the book until after I've read the whole thing and I'll probably give up most grains entirely for a while, just to see what it does for me. I already only eat high fiber cereals, no bread, etc. so it should be fairly easy for me. I'll also let y'all know what I experience with that, though I expect the largest part of the change is still in giving up foods with a high glycemic index.

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Gyrobob

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Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly
Reply #581 - 03/01/12 at 13:09:38

Savage_Rob wrote on 03/01/12 at 08:31:13:

I'm reading it along with a few others at the moment, so it's going slowly but I'm about half through the book. He has some interesting assertions, most specifically about how much wheat has changed, first through selective cross-pollenation and more recently through specific genetic engineering. His claims that wheat gluten has substances that act as "exorphins" (same as endorphins, but externally introduced into the body) which pass through the blood-brain barrier easily and contribute to a "wheat addiction" are also interesting. The author cites specific sources for most of his information though many are other books and papers whose underlying data may or may not be valid. There are so many it would be extraordinarily cumbersome to review all of them. I have checked out a number of the CDC and NIH references and they were valid but they only presuppose part of his assertions. I'm reserving judgment on the book until after I've read the whole thing and I'll probably give up most grains entirely for a while, just to see what it does for me. I already only eat high fiber cereals, no bread, etc. so it should be fairly easy for me. I'll also let y'all know what I experience with that, though I expect the largest part of the change is still in giving up foods with a high glycemic index.

Wow. An intelligent and well-thought-out response. Refreshing.

Very few folks who use these concepts for several weeks switch back. The proof is in the pudding, so to speak. I was quite surprised at how many different things improved for me.

I'm not diabetic, but many folks who do this for a few months return to non-diabetic status.

Even if I had no improvements from lowered appetite, joint pain, weight loss, regularity, allergies, energy, sleep, brain fog, geographic tongue, heartburn, and blood pressure,.... I would never start eating wheat again because my constant headaches have just disappeared. Do you know how liberating, how joyous that is? For decades I had a few humdinger headaches every week. Since I stopped wheat, I have NO MORE HEADACHES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyway, I am really glad you will give it a shot. I'm really looking forward to see if you really do abide by the whole set of concepts, and,... if you do,... what kinds of improvements you experience.

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Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly"
Reply #582 - 03/01/12 at 14:35:10

-- One lady said her kid with MS no longer has to use a cane
-- One MS lady, over a period of months, went from using a wheelchair, to walking with a walker, to using a cane, to walking freely.
They went into remission, which they would have done anyway.
There are two types of MS- remissive, which most sufferers start out with. What happens is the body learns to use other nerve pathways to compensate for the ones that are damaged. When enough damage is done there are no healthy nerves for "backup" any more and the disease turns to progressive degenerative, which can have "cull-de-sacks" or periods when the disease does not get worse, but does not get better either. A lot of the "fad" treatments (bee stings, decompression, to name two) were praised as a cure, but the patient only went into remission. It has been argued that these fad treatments shocked the nervous system into using new pathways, that would have occurred naturally given time. The possibility exists that going off wheat might do this too.
Some have an episode, go into remission, and stay there.

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Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly
Reply #583 - 03/01/12 at 20:26:29

arteacher wrote on 03/01/12 at 14:35:10:

-- One lady said her kid with MS no longer has to use a cane
-- One MS lady, over a period of months, went from using a wheelchair, to walking with a walker, to using a cane, to walking freely.
They went into remission, which they would have done anyway.
There are two types of MS- remissive, which most sufferers start out with. What happens is the body learns to use other nerve pathways to compensate for the ones that are damaged. When enough damage is done there are no healthy nerves for "backup" any more and the disease turns to progressive degenerative, which can have "cull-de-sacks" or periods when the disease does not get worse, but does not get better either. A lot of the "fad" treatments (bee stings, decompression, to name two) were praised as a cure, but the patient only went into remission. It has been argued that these fad treatments shocked the nervous system into using new pathways, that would have occurred naturally given time. The possibility exists that going off wheat might do this too.
Some have an episode, go into remission, and stay there.

So these were probably just coincidence, then.

hmmm,.. that lady that was in the wheelchair for decades before getting off of wheat sure had some unusual timing, eh? After eating wheat/grains all her life, she just happened to go into remission at the same time get stopped eating WGC. The Lord sure works in strange ways.

Let's assume both of these, and all the others I mentioned were all just coincidence, and that getting off of wheat only makes a difference in as little as 1% of the time. Maybe your wife would be the lucky one-percenter. Since trying it out is free, why not? Since there are no risks, why not? Since getting off of wheat and grains altogether has no downside and might help her in lots of other ways even if she isn't a one-percenter, why NOT TRY IT?

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« Last Edit: 03/02/12 at 06:58:40 by Gyrobob »

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Savage_Rob Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Mechanically Inclined Amateur Posts: 6972 Texas (Dallas area) Gender:	Re: 0-60 in 2 seconds less? "Wheat Belly Reply #584 - 03/02/12 at 08:29:00 I don't think he said they were purely coincidence, necessarily. If I read his comment correctly, systemic shock (such as that which may be observed with a major dietary shift) has been said by some to send it into remission. I know very little about MS myself.
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