http://www.13.waisays.com/constipation.htm

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 11/21/11 at 18:56:04:



Wow.  this lines up pretty well with what the good Dr. says, eh?

I've been lurking on and off this thread since the very beginning, and can't even remember if I did write my own two lines in page 2 or 3 or 4...

What got me to write this entry is the content of the last few pages, which could be summarized as follows:

Gyrobob wrote on 11/21/11 at 04:03:35:


A few thoughts here, from one who lives on the other side of the ocean, in another continent, with just as much, if not more, social and cultural diversity than one could expect to find in the USA.
Not to mention a good 5000 years of documented history.

1) Atkins diet is fundamentally protein, protein, protein, right? With some fruit and vegetables ...
This is nothing new, this is quite simply the "Germanic/Scandinavian hunter/gatherer diet that went on for hundreds of thousands of years, because it was far too cold to cultivate and crops would freeze in the winter... not to mention not enough farmland as Northern Europe (i.e. anywhere north of the Alps and west of the Rhein) was once covered by vast vast forests.

2) "Wheat is baaad for you...meat is better" This is the typical line from one who belongs to a society (civilization?) which has little experience=>culture into wheat crops, including barley, kamut, rice, and whatever other grain which can be ground to make flour. Just as fire was istrumental to improve cave man's quality of life, the discovery of pottery was instrumental into teaching him to cook - boil and bake. Nowhere have I read in this Forum that roast meat is far less healthy that boiled meat; yet boiled meat is cooked at a much lower temperature, no charring occurs, and you can easily separate the fat from the meat. Similarly, baking means you can prepare foods for future use - and milled flour is right where it's at.

The fundamental problem is that modern society - Western society - and US society much more than European society - have gained such levels of quality of life and "wellness" that often just climbing a few flights of stairs is seen as a nuinsance; where's the elevator? Walk a block to buy milk? for Pete's sake, hurry up and drive the car! and so on...

The ultimate "wisdom" (or fad?) in high-tech, industrialized society is a questionable "return to my origins" and consumption of "healthier" foods - regardless the fact that the original recipes which inspire the modern lookalikes would sometmies appear unacceptable to the modern urbanite.

Muffins and cupcakes without a single grain in them? For heaven's sake, Gyrobob, what did you make those cakes with, "alternative no-gluten instant mix"?
What could ever be in that satchet?

If I want to give my son an apple, it'll be an apple, not a "imitation no-skin seedless bio-grown natural apple supplement replacement"

Similarly, any other food.

I do not believe in the finger fish or stick fish (which will give fish fingers or fish sticks) and milk does NOT come from a carton, it comes from a COW.

Cheese is not something "fancy", quite simply "processed milk" according to techniques and traditions which go as far back as the invention of the milk churn.
Let's simply admit that not all Peoples will process cheese in the same way.

Ask any Spaniard, Frenchman or Italian "what is cheese?" and it'll be like asking a Hawaiian "what is fish?", simply too many varieties  to provide ONE answer.

On the other hand, the Far East does NOT even contemplate the very idea of cheese, they drink milk and that's it, period. Nobody ever made cheese.

I had a Korean colleague who was shocked to discover there are more varieties of cheese than just "cheeseburger slices", that's all he had ever seen in Korea...

Investigating the eating habits or culture of the author of "Wheat Belly", I wouldn't be surprised to discover an unusually scarce variety of recipes, which are then implanted into the book.

The author is certainly entitled to his/her opinion, but that doesn't mean that 10thousand+ years of agricultural culture in the Mediterranean were "wrong all along". Quite the opposite.

Wheat-eating Mediterraneans have given the world philosophy, engineering, medicine, and the fine arts. Agriculture requires PEACE.

Meat eating Germanics and Scandinavians birthed Barbarian hordes and Viking pillagers. To eat meat one must go hunting, regardless of who owns the land.

So eat whatever you like, but let's not get too excited about "my meat is healthier than your bread" before this becomes another War of the Worlds.

mpescatori, you have some good observations, but a few misunderstandings.

"Atkins diet is fundamentally protein, protein, protein, right? With some fruit and vegetables ..."  Wrong.  The Atkins diet, which does have a lot in common with Dr. Davis's guidance, can have a lot of protein, but that is not its focus.  
 -- The main thrust of low-carbing is to get back to what our bodies were designed to eat, and, therefore, to get back to the body burning fat for energy rather than carbs.  High-carb = burn carbs & store fat.  Low carbs = burn fat.  
 -- We are still not genetically aligned with crops, especially grains.  Our genes are set up for meat/fish/fowl and green leafy stuff, with some fruits/nuts/etc as well.  Not grains.  With Atkins and Wheat Belly, you aren't trying to hog down a lot of protein, but it is not avoided.

"Wheat is baaad for you...meat is better" This is the typical line from one who belongs to a society (civilization?) which has little experience=>culture into wheat crops, including barley, kamut, rice, and whatever other grain which can be ground to make flour."  We have way more experience with wheat crops, unfortunately.  
 -- This country is guilty for a lot of the wheat damage prevalent around the world because of our economic might, and manufacturing "advances."  There is so much money to be made peddling wheat, we keep making it more and more productive and forcing the results on the money-laden public regardless of how much harm it does.
 --  If the USDA would apply the same standards to wheat that they do to all the other substances they meddle with, wheat would never be sold here.  The problem is that wheat is so well entrenched, and most of the really harmful mods were done so long ago (50, 60, 70 years ago), it just ignores the situation,... in fact the f**king USDA makes things waaaayyy worse by supporting the wheat industry and foisting its f**king food triangle on us.

"Nowhere have I read in this Forum that roast meat is far less healthy that boiled meat; yet boiled meat is cooked at a much lower temperature, no charring occurs, and you can easily separate the fat from the meat. Similarly, baking means you can prepare foods for future use - and milled flour is right where it's at."  This forum is hardly a comprehensive reference for Wheat Belly concepts.  Read the book, however, and you'll see it in there.    
 -- Separating the meat from the fat is not harmful, I guess, but we are designed to eat fat.  If you are properly restricting the carbs, fat is a good thing.  If you are abusing the carbs (eating a lot of grainy crap), fat gets stored,.. a bad thing.
 -- You can prepare food for future use by baking all kinds of things that have no wheat or other grains at all.  Using milled flour just ruins the effort.

"Muffins and cupcakes without a single grain in them? For heaven's sake, Gyrobob, what did you make those cakes with, "alternative no-gluten instant mix"? What could ever be in that satchet?"  What a zany statement!  Yes, muffins and cupcakes and pancakes and pie crust and bread and wraps and granola and cookies etc./etc./etc with not a single grain.  Quite doable and eminently more healthy. And tasty too. Just because we have been doing it harmfully for so long does not mean we must continue doing it harmfully.  I don't understand what you mean about alternative no-gluten instant mix.  If you ever read the book, you'd see many comments about how bad the current gluten-free products are.

"If I want to give my son an apple, it'll be an apple, not a "imitation no-skin seedless bio-grown natural apple supplement replacement" Who on earth would ever give his kid something like that?!!  If you read the book, you'd see lots of favorable statements about fruit.  Yes, you must have fruit in reasonable quantities because lots of it has a lots of carbs.  I have a serving or two of fruit every day.  One of the huge benefits of being wheat-free, though, is that your appetite goes down so much you just don't feel like eating large quantities of anything, fruit included.

"Investigating the eating habits or culture of the author of "Wheat Belly", I wouldn't be surprised to discover an unusually scarce variety of recipes, which are then implanted into the book."  Read the book and you'll see how baseless and inaccurate this statement is.  Given the adult rationality inherent in most of your posts, I am surprised to see you make a statement like this.  How can you say the book has an unusually scarce variety of recipes when you have never seen the book?

"The author is certainly entitled to his/her opinion, but that doesn't mean that 10thousand+ years of agricultural culture in the Mediterranean were "wrong all along". Quite the opposite." Wrong again. We HAVE been wrong all along. This is the very discovery that is so earth-shattering, so to speak.  
 -- This is not opinion.  He is not presenting assertions in his book.  He presents results of robust studies conducted by 100s of researchers over many decades.  
 -- We HAVE been doing it wrong for 10,000 years.  Agriculture as we do it, the worst of which is wheat, is causing the problem.  
 -- Arthritis, heart disease, diabetes, and a host of other ills, became widespread about 9,000 years ago,.. a little after we discovered the "joys" of agriculture and its worst product, wheat.

Seriously, you need to read the book before you make any more baseless statements.  For decades, I felt the same way you did.  When I first heard of these ideas, I scoffed too.  Then I spent a week or two researching this stuff and gradually I realized most of what the wheat-lobby and its constituents profess is WRONG.

I decided to give it a try.  I am my own experiment.  I am even a special experiment of sorts, because I have been a low-carber for several years.  
  -- Therefore I am an experiment in changing just one thing: no grains, which for the most part means no wheat.  My transition is from low-carbs with grains to low-carb sans grains,... with wheat being the worst of the grains.  
  -- The benefits to me over the last 7 weeks have been many, varied, and impressive.  I won't repeat them here because I have presented them several times so far in this thread.

Anyway, thanks for the post, but to give credibility to any future statements, you need an understanding of the wheat-free concepts,.. not just a lurking exposure to a hodge-podge of conflicting statements you see in this thread.

I want to make chocolate chip cookies without the wheat,what do i use in place of the flour.

bill67 wrote on 11/22/11 at 05:35:15:



Here is a chocolate chip recipe I used a few nights ago.  Yummy.  They are half gone already.

http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2011/10/chocolate-chip-cookies/

Where it says ground almonds, he means almond flour.  I use Bob's Red Mill brand almond meal/flour I buy at Walmart.

Walmart also carries Hershey's Dark Chocolate Sugar-free Chocolate Chips which lowers the carb count even more.

I read where ground oats is used,I will try it just to see how it taste.

bill67 wrote on 11/22/11 at 06:07:06:


Ground oats is not much of an improvement.  It's just another grain,.. not as bad as wheat, I'll admit, but still high carb.  If you want to put grainy crap in your body, just use any of the other "flours" like quinoa flour, rice flour, etc.  

You won't be getting any grain-free improvements, though.  

You might as well use wheat flour, since you are such a wheaty guy anyway.