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Beginners Welding Suggestions (Read 867 times)
Johansson
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Re: Beginners Welding? Suggestions Please.
Reply #45 - 08/29/11 at 04:05:00
 
The 7014 rod. AC/DC
Smooth. Handles current in the higher range very well. Depending on the weld, quite a bit faster than the 6013 and and the 6011.

Strikes and restarts better than the 6011.

This rod has iron in its coating which:
Helps to build a cone in the end of the rod. Makes the arc stable.
Allows the rod to be used at higher amperages, less likely to overheat.
Wider usable amperage range than the 6011 or 6013.
Handles poor fit, ie, irregular gap, better than most other rods.
Puts more metal into the weld, faster welding speeds.


Makes the best looking welds. Better looking welds in all positions.

In comparison, mig vs stick, this rod makes as good as, if not better, looking welds than any mig welder.

Once one has mastered the basics, this will be the go to rod.
It can be used just like the other rods, maintain a gap between the metal and the end of the rod. OR
DRAG THE ROD RIGHT ALONG THE METAL

Name brand 7014's on clean steel have virtually no splatter.
The flux cleans better than the 6013 and the 6011.

The 3 rods, 6011, 6013, and the 7014 are all position rods.
All three will weld vertically, horizontally, flat and overhead.
The 7014, does not weld in the straight down vertical weld as well as the 6013 because the travel speed is so fast in this position on thin steels. Until one gets a lot of practice the puddle will tend to over run the arc with this rod straight down vertical, I mean it is fast.

Hobart once sold this rod in the 1/16 size, I was not able to find it recently.

Amperage range
1/16 25 to 55
3/32 60 to 140
1/8 110 to160

Different manufacturers vary the amperage range of these rods by varying the iron content in the coating. The iron content of the coating varies from about 30 to 50% depending on the brand.

The higher current range of these rods should be reserved for ac current.

Again, all weldors and welding machines vary, only practice will tell one what currents work with this rod on their machine.

This should wrap it up.

Johanson
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Re: Beginners Welding? Suggestions Please.
Reply #46 - 08/29/11 at 04:39:32
 
I think this should be put in the Tech section,, after everyone has a chance to enjoy it here, but it shouldnt be allowed to just drift away,
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Re: Beginners Welding? Suggestions Please.
Reply #47 - 08/29/11 at 23:34:43
 
I agree. There is just too much excellent information in here.
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Re: Beginners Welding? Suggestions Please.
Reply #48 - 08/30/11 at 03:51:06
 
Yeah, hardly a rubber side up thread.
Why not in a welding forum, w/ a link to it.
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Re: Beginners Welding? Suggestions Please.
Reply #49 - 08/30/11 at 04:25:24
 
Quote:
Name brand 7014's on clean steel have virtually no splatter.
The flux cleans better than the 6013 and the 6011.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Correct, 7014 on a DC machine can make a beautiful weld. If the heat is perfect, the flux just curls up and near falls of by itself, and it can be run in the downhill position, but only in the hands of the very experienced.
7014....same as 7024 can be just plain dangerous in the hands of the less than experienced, as it can leave a groove right down the middle of the weld that is exactly identical to welding 2 beads next to each other, neither of which touches one another,.....exactly the same as if it had never been welded at all.
Yes, I have run miles of 14 and 24 jet rod in my day. They each have their place, as does 6011.
I'm not saying that a mig run downhill won't run a puddle ahead of the weld that is near the same as no weld at all (zero penetration) too, because it happens often in the hands of the inexperienced.


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Re: Beginners Welding? Suggestions Please.
Reply #50 - 08/30/11 at 17:45:43
 
Routy, you bring up an excellent point. Which leads me to again recommend the book, New lessons in Arc Welding by Lincoln Electric.

It has a lot of advice, correct advice, that will cover what I cannot possibly cover here.

It is the best book that I have found on arc welding for someone new to welding.

I have seen a lot beginning welding books in past, lots of errors in most of them. The one carried at both Lowe's and Home Depot, errors throughout.  

The book I am recommending is a resource you will use as long as you weld.

Routy's point is
"7014....same as 7024 can be just plain dangerous in the hands of the less than experienced, as it can leave a groove right down the middle of the weld that is exactly identical to welding 2 beads next to each other, neither of which touches one another,.....exactly the same as if it had never been welded at all"

The problem, incorrect procedure. Go to page 8 and 9 to view why this happens.
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/en_US/Products/Consumable_StickElectrod...

On a high speed iron coated rod, you need more rod angle, you need to drag the rod, and you need to be hauling a..,.

In a production enviroment welding manually, what is faster, mig or stick? Often times, stick is faster. I don't want to go into a lot of detail, but,,,, If I need to put down a lot of pounds of weld metal the 7014, 7024, 27, 18, 28 will out weld a mig. High production rates are always done with ac, not dc, when stick welding.

Welding at home, entry level setup. Simple steel to steel welding. Maybe even a little stainless steel.

Stick is the most economical. dollar for dollar. Not too hard to learn.

Mig, dollar for dollar, what about 3 times the cost for the same power level? Better for the real thin stuff for a new weldor, 14 gauge and lighter.

Welding straight down, lets talk sheet metal, 16 gauge and under.
These are not tips.
This is how it has to be done, mig or stick.
Tack every 1"
Fit. must be perfect.
I need a picture, I don't have one, the metal must be tacked so that both exposed edges are clearly exposed at the joint.

On thin steel, 16 gauge and less, this perfectly aligned joint is tough to do with stick. It takes a lot of practice with mig.

The weld itself, there is no forgiveness, you cannot veer from the exact center of the weld 1/64 of an inch or you will burn through, stick or mig. When you burn through, well again, mig will fix the hole easier.

If this metal is not tacked perfect, the weld will look like, well, not to good. And you will burn through.

Mig tacks better than stick,,
The weld itself is no more difficult, stick or mig.
Post weld clean up is easier with mig.

If your welding is'nt to hot, you will be grinding this weld to make it look good, which eliminates the mig advantage on post weld cleanup.

To clarify the use of the 7014. I use the 7014 almost exclusively on my 220 volt ac 225 amp lincoln tombstone style welder. It welds wonderfully on this machine.

Practice with the 6011 first, imo, the 6011 is easier to learn with.







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Re: Beginners Welding? Suggestions Please.
Reply #51 - 08/30/11 at 18:11:29
 
Awesome info, Tech Section material for sure.  Smiley

Beginner story:  I started with a small TIG system and never got any good at it.  So I got rig of the tig and bought the mig..  never did try to stick weld with the tig system.  But if I had it to do over, I would not hesitate to try one of the newer (inverter) arc welders.
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Re: Beginners Welding? Suggestions Please.
Reply #52 - 09/01/11 at 03:44:53
 
Thanks everyone!
I guess I'll reserve this here and edit this post as I find deals and suggestions on welding equipment.

Shopping this morning on Sears.com
Sears has some Hobart welding rods on sale here for less than 2 dollars a pound.

Also

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00920505000P?prdNo=17&blockNo=17&blo...

$453 dollars, 240amp ac/dc welder.

Sears Item# 00920505000 | Model# WE20505

A welder for someone with a lot of welding to do.

The classic Lincoln ac 225
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00920015000P?prdNo=5&blockNo=5&block...
The most popular home welder in America, $265

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Re: Beginners Welding Suggestions
Reply #53 - 09/10/11 at 14:54:46
 
Found two really nice pdf documents, download them to your computer, one is from Lincoln and one is from Miller.

The Miller document has one error, they say that most welding is done in the flat position. I think, after one has practiced a good bit, you will find that very little welding is done in the flat position. In my work only a very small percentage of what I weld is in the flat position.

http://www.millerwelds.com/pdf/PrinciplesSMAW.pdf

This Lincoln stick electrode guide is handy, how to specifically use the different rod types

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/en_US/Products/Consumable_StickElectrod...

Little bit more advanced, from Miller.

http://www.millerwelds.com/pdf/guidelines_smaw.pdf

The following video's, I think they are worth watching, stick vs mig. I watched them earlier today and uh, well,
They took a guy named Mike, who ran about a foot of weld total, and asked Mike what He thought, stick or mig?

In the second video, Mike is welding what I consider to be basic steel to steel welding. Now Mike has never welded, and, most importantly, has never practiced. If Mike had spent 3 or 4 hours practicing his welding, his welds would look much better. The welds are weak, little penetration, (they look and will perform exactly like a weld from someone who has not practiced) but for the purpose, hopefully, they will be adequate.

http://youtu.be/LPqQec1FZ8g
http://youtu.be/eCfGQXohaMQ

A couple of things from the first video,
With flux core wire in a mig welder, the nozzle is not needed. They used the nozzle, and then cleaned the nozzle by sticking the mig gun into it. This will ruin a contact tip quick. The spatter from the nozzle will enter the gas diffuser and run into the contact tip from the inside, acting like little wedges between the wire and the tip, causing poor wire feed.

Also, cleaning the nozzle with this method will prematurely wear out the gas diffuser. Use a needle nose pliers to keep the nozzle clean along with nozzle dip.

There are flux core wires that do require shielding gas, mainly wires for stainless steel. Of course then, you do need the nozzle as you will be using a shielding gas.

There are also a lot of metal cored mig wires, used for high alloy steels, or on projects that will require heat treatment,  that require shielding gases, far beyond the scope of simple steel to steel welding.
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Re: Beginners Welding Suggestions
Reply #54 - 09/10/11 at 15:04:21
 
Found two really nice pdf documents, download them to your computer, one is from Lincoln and one is from Miller.

The Miller document has one error, they say that most welding is done in the flat position. I think, after one has practiced a good bit, you will find that very little welding is done in the flat position. In my work only a very small percentage of what I weld is in the flat position.

http://www.millerwelds.com/pdf/PrinciplesSMAW.pdf

This Lincoln stick electrode guide is handy, how to specifically use the different rod types

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/en_US/Products/Consumable_StickElectrod...

Little bit more advanced, from Miller.

http://www.millerwelds.com/pdf/guidelines_smaw.pdf

The following video's, I think they are worth watching, stick vs mig. I watched them earlier today and uh, well,
They took a guy named Mike, who ran about a foot of weld total, and asked Mike what He thought, stick or mig?

In the second video, Mike is welding what I consider to be basic steel to steel welding. Now Mike has never welded, and, most importantly, has never practiced. If Mike had spent 3 or 4 hours practicing his welding, his welds would look much better. The welds are weak, little penetration, (they look and will perform exactly like a weld from someone who has not practiced) but for the purpose, hopefully, they will be adequate.

http://youtu.be/LPqQec1FZ8g
http://youtu.be/eCfGQXohaMQ

A couple of things from the first video,
With flux core wire in a mig welder, the nozzle is not needed. They used the nozzle, and then cleaned the nozzle by sticking the mig gun into it. This will ruin a contact tip quick. The spatter from the nozzle will enter the gas diffuser and run into the contact tip from the inside, acting like little wedges between the wire and the tip, causing poor wire feed.

Also, cleaning the nozzle with this method will prematurely wear out the gas diffuser. Use a needle nose pliers to keep the nozzle clean along with nozzle dip.

There are flux core wires that do require shielding gas, mainly wires for stainless steel. Of course then, you do need the nozzle as you will be using a shielding gas.

There are also a lot of metal cored mig wires, used for high alloy steels, or on projects that will require heat treatment,  that require shielding gases, far beyond the scope of simple steel to steel welding.
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