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Beginners Welding Suggestions (Read 867 times)
justin_o_guy2
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Re: Beginners Welding? Suggestions Please.
Reply #30 - 08/21/11 at 21:12:08
 
Ohh, me too,,, I just barely scratched the surface
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Re: Beginners Welding? Suggestions Please.
Reply #31 - 08/24/11 at 04:22:59
 
While I am thinking of it.
ALWAYS WEAR EARPLUGS WHILE WELDING
A little ball of molten metal down the the ear canal will permanently ruin your hearing.

Grinding and Grinders


Grinding makes a lot of dust, it is best to do it outside.
You should wear a paper mask while grinding.
A face shield is better than safety glasses, keeps the dust off of your face

4 1/2 inch angle grinders are the most common and have the most accesories at the best prices. 4 inch grinders have fewer accesories in stock at most retailers. 5 inch grinders are an oddball size, hard to get the accesories for them.

6, 7, and 9 inch grinders are common sizes. 9 inch probably the size where availability of accesories is good.

For home use, 4 1/2 inch will probably be your best bet.

90% of my grinding is with a 4 1/2 inch grinder
For the money, I get very good service out of the cheap harbor freight grinders. I usually buy them for about 12 dollars on sale with a coupon. I have bought dozens of these. I have not burned any of them up, drop them just right and the gear housing cracks.

A 13 amp Milwaukee is the longest lasting 4 1/2 inch grinder made. If you think that you are going to do a lot of heavy grinding, this would be my suggestion,,about 99 dollars. A little heavier, and like all milwaukee tools, about the least ergonomic tool made.

Dewalt makes a nice 7 amp 4 1/2 inch grinder, I buy them at Lowe's on sale for 50 dollars,,usually a couple of times a year they are on sale. Normal price is 54 to 59 dollars. These are a lot easier to handle than the Milwaukees, 7 amps is plenty for a 4 1/2 inch grinder. These are light, ergonomic, nice for finish work.

When I am welding, I have 4 grinders mounted on a rack next to me.
One has a grinding disc, for knocking off scale, rust paint, light beveling
One has a cut off disc, for cutting tacks, light grinding
One has a knotted cone wire brush, lot better than a chipping hammer
One has a flap disc, great for fine finish work

Harbor Freight disc, they are not the best, different brand every month, not the cheapest either. Northern tool brand in the 10 packs I think are about a buck a piece in the 4 1/2 inch work okay.

Norton Gemini are a premium disc, better then the Norton discs from Home Depot.

Last year I bought about 200 discs, flap discs and other grinding accesories from harbor freight on close out, for what I paid I am not going to complain.

A 4 1/2 inch disc last about a week for me on a 13 amp Milwaukee 4 1/2 inch grinder. I weld 10 hours a day, 5 to 6 days a week. I would expect a disc to last a hobbiest at least a year,,might as well buy premium.

I use a 9 inch grinder for the heavy work, trailer building, structural work, I don't see a hobbiest needing one of these strength training, upper body building devices.

My advice, buy 2 grinders, the 7 amp dewalt and a cheap grinder for your other accessories.
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Re: Beginners Welding? Suggestions Please.
Reply #32 - 08/24/11 at 12:38:10
 
A 4 1/2 inch disc last about a week for me on a 13 amp Milwaukee 4 1/2 inch grinder. I weld 10 hours a day, 5 to 6 days a week. I would expect a disc to last a hobbiest at least a year,,might as well buy premium.



You my not quite understand fully what I mean when I talk about "Welding",,,  I probably run a grinder more than the welder,, Im not very good at welding,,  Wink
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Re: Beginners Welding? Suggestions Please.
Reply #33 - 08/24/11 at 16:07:15
 
Well, Justin_O_Guy, I understand not being able to weld well also. I think I can help.

Before welding, take the lenses and lense covers off of your helmet and clean them..Get new covers and lenses if needed.

The 2 most important points in welding are:
Visisbility,
The rod or wire.

The welding machine is not important as long as it is in good working order and powerful enough for the job.

We are going to check that welder before we start.
 

Get some new 6011 rods if you have a stick welder. Buy a 10 lb pack of 3/32 and a 10 lb pack of 1/8 rods.

Get a piece of steel, preferably thick, like a quarter inch, whatever you can get your hands on, bigger the better.

6011 3/32 amperage range is 45 to 75 amps
6011 1/8 amperage range is 75 to 125 amps

Set your welder to the maximum recommended amps, 75 for 3/32, 125 for a 1/8 rod.

Strike an arc, it will light right up, it won't stick. Don't move the rod side to side, move it up a little, then push it right into the puddle, slowly move the rod in the puddle, slow is not slow enough, slowwwwww, got it, slowwwwww.

Just get used to lighting the rod up and forming a puddle, stay in the puddle, make the puddle larger, do not try to run a bead. Work on maintaining a good arc length.

This is going get you used to liting the rod, forming a puddle, and getting a feel for a good arc length,,,,and maintaining that arc length as the rod is being consumed,,,, don't worry about rod angle

Do this for 15 minutes, dunk the metal in some water between rod changes.

Now we are going to do an equipment check, put your hand on the ground clamp, if it is hot,,that is not good, If the clamp is just a few degrees above ambient temp. that is good.

A hot ground clamp is a sign of a problem, a very common problem and will always negatively affect the quality of the weld. Usually, the problem resides between the copper ground wire and the lug crimped to the wire that bolts directly to the ground clamp. Buy a new lug, they are a couple of bucks at any auto parts store, not the best lugs. Better lugs are available, zinc plated, from a welding supplier, much better because they are of a heavier gage. Clean every connection with a wire brush before reassembly.

If it is a mig welder, pull the trigger of the gun, the gun should not have any vibration, the wire should come out smooth as silk. Vibration is caused by a bad contact tip, or a bad liner. If the gun has a shudder or vibration remover the contact tip. Pull the trigger again without the contact tip installed and if the vibration is gone, we know to replace the contact tip with a new one.

With the mig outfit, the owners manual is necessary in order to match the voltage range with the wire speed.

A good place to start is about 200 inches per minute if your mig welder's speed control knob is calibrated to inches per minute. Set the volts about 2/5 of the way from the lowest setting.
Without the manual for your welder, i cannot tell you exactly how to set this up.
Never adjust the voltage while welding, TRUST ME.
You can adjust the wire speed while welding,

Adjust the wire speed until the wire is burning off real nicely with about 3/8 inch of a gap between the diffuser and the metal. Practice making large puddles, while concentrating on maintaining that 3/8 ths gap between the diffuser and the metal.

Thats all for now  
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Re: Beginners Welding? Suggestions Please.
Reply #34 - 08/24/11 at 16:21:24
 
WOW,, thanks,, Iv got some 3/8the steel,, I think thats the heaviest I have, Gonna be a while, hops loaded up & I havnt been able to get anything done for 9 weeks, (health problems).I gotta move cabinets out of the way & get feelin good enough to do something,, not looki like that gonna be in the next few days.
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Re: Beginners Welding? Suggestions Please.
Reply #35 - 08/24/11 at 19:30:29
 
Johansson that is brilliant.
thanks for the detail.
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Re: Beginners Welding? Suggestions Please.
Reply #36 - 08/25/11 at 04:08:36
 
I am glad this is helping. Nice to be able to contribute.

A 6011 is advertised as being able to burn thru paint, rust, millscale.
What does that mean? It means that it will work on used metal. I does not mean that you can weld painted, or rusty or dirty greasy metal. It means that it will weld painted, rusty dirty greasy metal after you have done everything in your power to clean the metal as clean as is humanly possible Every trace of the contaminants need to be removed.

Remnants of rust, paint and oil may still remain, the 6011 will float these trace elements of paint and oil to the surface and trap them in the slag.. The rust (iron oxide) is removed by the deoxidiers, silicone and aluminum, into a different chemical compound that is more stable in the weld puddle. Without the deoxider, the puddle gets an almost sponge apearance. The puddle looks like it is getting an injection of air,and is very weak and brittle, very visible while welding, and very visible after welding.
The deoxidizer performs a chemical reduction and oxidation reaction in the weld pool. If there is a lot of rust in the metal, this chemical reaction in the weld pool releases a lot of heat, making a very liquid puddle, a very hot puddle which is very hard to control.

The strength of the weld, if you rely on the deoxidizer to clean the rust, is 50% of the strength of a comparable weld on clean metal.

Old pipe, old metal. The rust is completely through the metal. This metal will be difficult to weld. Even with a thorough grinding, the reduction reaction is very active, makes a very hot weld puddle, and the weld will not look good and will have poor strength.

Millscale, paint, rust and oil must always be cleaned in order to make sound welds.

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Re: Beginners Welding? Suggestions Please.
Reply #37 - 08/25/11 at 22:13:30
 
this is off topic Johansson, and i'm guessing you will either love or hate this;
as an apprentice aircraft engineer 30 years ago, our first year was in a trade school. welding was one of the skills. we had weeks of practise and play on all types and styles. brilliant.
the final assessment was an electric weld of two 1/4 inch thick metal plates. judged on squareness, weld penetration neatness etc etc.
a mate and I discovered freehand welding was just to shaky to be neat, so we set about to discover how make it perfect. after many experiments we found the right rod, filed flat the outer cover of flux, set the amps just right, struck the electrode and just lay the rod onto the metal joint. the rod would slowly burn along its length leaving a perfect weld in its wake. the teacher could not believe or understand how we did it. we even handed him the piece of flux scale that came off in one 6 inch piece. we both got A pluses and a reputation as two of the best welders to graduate. thankfully we were electricians so didnt have to ever repeat the performance on the job.
it was cheating, but gee what fun was had...dont try this at home people, much steel was used, many rods welded to the work, much equipment strained, many eyes flashed. Roll Eyes youch that hurts.
thanks for all your valuable welding information, i am keen to get back into it. berg
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Re: Beginners Welding? Suggestions Please.
Reply #38 - 08/26/11 at 04:07:30
 
Sounds like it would work Berg!! Have a manufacturer make rods in a hoop, sure would be able to sell that to the pipe welders.

Lets get back to welding. Unless asked otherwise, I am going mostly talk about stick welding. Welding steel is the same with either stick or mig.

Alright, spend about 15 minutes with both sizes of rods making puddles at the rods maximum voltage settings. 6011 rods at maximum tend to splatter more. We'll turn the voltage down a little:
60 volts for the  3/32
90 to 100 for the 1/8

The previous practice should make lighting the rod easier on these lower voltages. Just practice lighting the rod for 15 minutes, no need to make a puddle unless you want to. Don't worry about rod angle.

Helmet setup.

Your helmet, whether it is a fixed shade or an automatic helmet needs to be adjusted so that it drops without using your hand. It does, in my experiance working with new welders, take some practice to get the helmet just right.

Better helmets have good headgear. Cheap helmet do not.  Get to know the knobs on the helmet. Adjust the helmet to fit, this can take a good while.

When the helmet is set up correctly a simple tilt of the head, not a shake of the head, will allow the helmet to quickly and gently fall into place, If the head gear is of good quality, this may take you 15 minutes or so to get the headgear set up so that it falls correctly and have the lenses line up so that they are in the proper alignment with your eyes.

The ability to just barely tilt your head and have the helmet gently fall into place is important. I cannot emphasize this enough. I would say that this is the reason that a lot of people consider mig welding to be easier than stick welding. To properly strike an arc that helmet needs to be set up properly.

The gun must be held with two hands. Mig or Stick. On heavier steel kinda hold the gun like a golf club or baseball bat, one hand in front of the other. On lighter steel, one hand over the other hand. Both hands on the gun at all times.

Stance, rock solid. I don't pistol shoot. I hunt, bow and arrow, rifle, so I have a lot of experiance with firearms. Put a pistol in my hand and I will shoot very tight groups. Because I use the same stance as when I weld at a bench.

Put the side of your hip against the table, brace your legs, don't get all wound up, relax, get your center of gravity right, don't stick your head right next to what you are welding.

Both hands on the gun, put the rod into position, gently lower your head about an inch, the helmet falls into place, strike an arc.
Let a puddle form for about 2 seconds, count, one one thousand,,,,,,,
Advance the rod slowly, slowly, slowly, as slow as you can.

Do not worry about rod angle, your eyes are fixed on the puddle, concentrate on the puddle and keeping the rod tip real close to that puddle while slowly advancing.

If the rod sticks, turn the amperage up a notch, with practice rod sticking will pretty much go away.

Don't worry about rod angle, that will come naturally.

Change things up, form a puddle and push the puddle, don't worry about rod angle, that will come naturally. You will find pushing is more difficult than pulling.

There should be no rod manipulation, no whipping, no circles or side to side motion.

As straight as possible, slow, slow slow.
It should take a minute to go 12 inches, or longer.

Always concentrate on the puddle, get a feel for rod angle and how it changes the position of the arc on the puddle. It is kind of like a wave, you can ride the top of the wave, or the bottom,, pushing is on top, pulling is on bottom. Just get a feel for it.

Continue until you make something that looks like a good weld.

Give it a rest, but practice until you can make very good looking beads through out the amperage range of both sizes of rods.
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Re: Beginners Welding? Suggestions Please.
Reply #39 - 08/26/11 at 05:56:47
 
For the OP, Roll Eyes I would still recommend a mig welder over a stick. I know many guys (welder wannabees) that have a cheap stick machine setting in a corner for years,.....they just gave it up before they ever mastered striking an arc, and learning to run stick. I've seen the messes they've made that just discouaged them into giving it up. Some of those same guys did rebuy,.... mig machines and are now not bad DIY welders. Like I said before, stick has its place, (many places) but not for the inexperienced,.....all IMO only. Yes I been a welder for 55 yrs,.....still am Undecided.
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Re: Beginners Welding? Suggestions Please.
Reply #40 - 08/26/11 at 06:38:24
 
There should be no rod manipulation, no whipping, no circles or side to side motion.



Between that statement & the Go SLOOOOWWW & The Build a puddle,, I expect my grinder use to go down,
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Re: Beginners Welding? Suggestions Please.
Reply #41 - 08/26/11 at 17:50:26
 
Routy, I would have agreed with you a few years ago, before I had used my first small inverter based dc stick welder,,I just could'nt believe how well they strike an arc. They were pretty pricey back then, the neighbor to my shop did auto repair and bought a nice 110/220 set up that fit in a small case, I think he paid a couple a thou for it, did tig too.

For sheetmetal work, say 14 gauge and less, mig is really the way to go. For production, flux core and stick require a little post weld clean up.

It really depends on what you want to do. For me, at home, it is a lot easier to pull out the stick welder, I am always welding something, trailers, making and repairing equipment. Souping up the lawnmower.  At home I am not doing lite work. For me dragging out my mig welder is quite a challenge vs dragging out the leads from my stick welder.

I think a lot of people would like to learn a little steel to steel welding and not spend a lot of money. These little inverter welders take up such a small amount of room that they should be considered.
A mig welder takes up quite a lot of space if you have a bottle and want it to be portable. A lot more investment too.

I think that spending 3 or 4 hours to learn to weld would be about the minumum time one should spend to learn to weld  14 gauge to 1/4 steel.  An equal amount of time is going to be spent learning either method.

I have a Harbor Freight Mig welder. I have never used it, My Dad gave it to me, He bought it cheap and thought I should have it. The lead is worthless, has a plastic liner, The cover of the lead is thin loose plastic. The contact tips are microscopic, I guess you get tips at Harbor Freight. The lead is maybe 8 feet long, no option for a longer lead, it is definately proprietory. The drive rolls are about the size of a dime, maybe a nickel. I would have a hard time believing that it could weld well.

http://www.harborfreight.com/interests/welding-and-welders/240-volt-inverter-...

The above is my harbor freight stick/tig welder, only 130 amps. It stick welds nice. Handles 1/8 rods down to 1/16. In a couple of weeks it will take some pictures of some 1/2 steel plate that I welded with it. I did'nt pay a whole lot for it. I doubt I paid over 150 max for it, it was clearance and I had a 20% coupon. It needs longer leads, a real ground clamp and a real stinger. I have that stuff since I am a welder.

I bought this welder because I needed a welder with more portability, I would not have purchased it if it would have cost more. I was going to buy the lincoln invertec 155 or the miller equivelant for a portable stick welder. With the money I saved buying this welder I am about to purchase the Lincoln 175 amp tig. My tig welder weighs something like 1000 lbs, definately not portalble.

Mig or stick, I don't know, both are fine, depends on what one needs. Or you could be like me, buy a few of each.

Well, lets talk more on learning to weld next.
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Re: Beginners Welding? Suggestions Please.
Reply #42 - 08/27/11 at 04:50:22
 
It is really hard for me to decide for someone what process, tig, mig or stick, would be best for them.

Miller welding wrote this article, read the bottom carefully about inverter advantages.
http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/articles/index.php?page=articles31.html

When choosing a welder, mig vs stick, dollar for dollar, a lot more welding power is available for stick.
Stick inverters machines weld very well in the lighter gauges, say down to 16 gauge, a DIY'er can probably do quite well on 14 gauge with one.

Tacking. In order to join 2 pieces of steel together, they need to be tacked. Mig has the advantage here, especially on the lighter gauges.

To tack lighter gauges with stick is much more difficult.
An auto darkening helmet makes tacking with stick much easier.
Use a 1/16 6013 to tack with.
Inverter stick welders tack much better than transformer based stick welders.

Most welding by a DIY'er is probably going to be single pass welding, Single pass welding is really not that technical.
A box of 1/16 and 3/32 6013's
A box of 3/32  and 1/8 6011's
A box of  3/32 and1/8 7014's, I will discuss the 7014 later........
I just found an excellent article on Millers website, Read down toward the bottom, Manipulation of the electrode,
http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/articles/smaw-stick-arc-welding-tips-tec...

A lot of very good information in the above article.

The advantages of mig welding  over stick welding. (single pass welding)
No post weld cleaning
Easier tacking

The disadvantages of mig vs stick
Nozzle splatter. The number one problem I have to deal with when training new welders. Splatter in the nozzle affects the shielding gas coverage. New welders generally just bang the nozzle against the table, deforming the nozzle, which also affects shielding gas coverage. A lot of time must be spent keeping the nozzle clean, the use of nozzle dip is mandatory. New welders, until they fully understand how to set voltage and wire speed spend an inordinate amount of time on this problem.

Splatter in the nozzle also shorts the contact tip to the nozzle. The nozzle becomes electrically hot, direct shorts to the weld, heats the contact tip causing a poor weld and ruining the contact tip.,,

Burn back. The wire melts off and welds to the contact tip.
Causes,
Improper wire speed
Dirty wire
Cheap wire
Bad contact tip
Old liner
Dirty liner caused by cheap wire or wire that has gotten rusty.
Welding with the welding lead in a loop or twisted.
Poor ground

Weld preperation on old, or dirty, or painted steel.
The standard prep on used steel is higher with mig vs stick
Flux core is about the only solution.

I am a fence sitter, both methods, stick and mig, imo, need about the same amount of practice to learn well.

The main disadvantage is that the overall investment is quite a bit higher with mig vs stick holding the range of weldable steel thickness  in the 1/16 to 1/4 inch range constant.

Holding the range of weldable steels to this range means single pass welding. A lot less to learn.

The same learning processes for both, welding up, welding down, welding flat, pushing, pulling, horizontal, proper gap, proper heat, proper angle.

To weld, you have to practice the fundamentals.

Oh, get the 10 dollar lincoln welding book, it will make it much easier to learn.


I like both welding methods.


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Re: Beginners Welding? Suggestions Please.
Reply #43 - 08/28/11 at 05:33:06
 
For mig welders, amperage range of various wires, along with metal thickness,, not real technical

http://www.welding-advisers.com/PRACTICAL_WELDING_LETTER-PracticalWeldingLett...

For stick welding,
http://www.welding-advisers.com/SMA-welding-tips.html

For mig welding,
http://www.welding-advisers.com/Mig-welding-tips.html

The first link above, the first article listed after the introduction, read the part on determining wire speed, how to determine it, and wire speed as it relates to amperage and the thickness of metal.
When mig welding it is very important to determine these parameters for your welder. Yes, to use a mig welder you are going to have to do a little mathematics.

I posted the other two articles, mainly, as an introduction to slope and inductance,,,(droop) in welding slang. Circuit boards in both mig and inverter based welders pretty much take care of this automatically in small welders,,,
In the old days, mig welders where very expensive, they ran best on one wire size, changing wire sizes on old mig welders caused a lot of problems at the weld (mostly splatter) due to their inability to monitor and adjust for slope. Oh, there were a lot of shop made hacks for this,,some probably not to well thought out..,.,.,.,

Okay, back to welding practice
mig welding,,most welding will be push the weld, on thin steels, 16 gauge and less, straight in and maybe even some pulling. The forementioned is not set in stone. It depends on the welding machine, the wire size, the thickness of the steel.. It takes some time to figure out.

stick welding,, mostly drag the weld,,straight in on overhead works well. Again, not set in stone.

Gap, the distance between the two pieces to be welded, also determines whether one pushes or pulls. A large gap, pull,,,a small gap, push....or straight in,

Mig welders, spend about 5 minutes forming small puddles 1/4 wide.
Stick welders, do the same.

mig welders, push your weld, stick welders, pull your weld.

Strike an arc with a 60ll, form a puddle about 3/8 ths of an inch wide for stick and slowly start a weld,, what you are looking to do here is keep that puddle uniformly wide as you slowly advance, rock solid stance, both hands on the gun.
As you are advancing, you may have to momemtarily pause, or speed up a little, (may have to even back up a little) just work on keeping that puddle as close to 3/8 of an inch wide as you can. Keep a good arc length at the same time.

Mig welders, do the same, only make your bead a 1/4 inch wide. Try to find the sweet spot, where the distance between the nozzle and the steel provides the smoothest sound and the least splatter.

Space all the welds so that there is about a 1/2 an inch of unwelded space between them. For the stick welders, this will make cleaning the plate a lot easier.

When you have done this to the point that the welds look good, no undercut at the edges, a visually good tie in of the weld at the edges, you are ready to start practice on butt welds.

The lincoln book has pictures of welds, to fast, to slow, to hot, to cold, just right.

The just right picture, look at the swirls, they are somewhat uniformally oval, that particular shape in the oval, that is how you determine when your weld is not to fast/slow, or hot/cold.

Do this for an hour for a few evenings, space it out. You are training your body also. It takes some practice for your body to learn too.





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Re: Beginners Welding? Suggestions Please.
Reply #44 - 08/28/11 at 06:58:27
 
Shop tools,,for metal working.

A handy press, home made
http://books.google.com/books?id=R9QDAAAAMBAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_...

If you are serious about welding,,Hand shear.
These come in 3 sizes, I have one, very handy. A lot more capacity than one would imagine. I've had mine over 10 years, used heavily and have not ever sharpened or changed the blades.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Plate-Shear-8-/T23100



A rod and strap bender,
http://www.harborfreight.com/compact-bender-38470.html


The hoops on the side of my bender I use for bending rod/strap into arches.
My employee Jorge working hard in the background.

Rod bender, these make very nice bends in stainless, cold rolled and hot rolled steel. You need a shop vise for this one to mount in.
Perfect for say, saddlebag brackets.
Shop around, they are a lot less expensive elsewhere, would not be to hard to make.
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200012574_200012574

Last but not least, a carbon arc torch. These are still being made, and can be found at pawn shops, garage sales, tool sales,
Go to page 17 in the following pdf to read about them.
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/ServiceNavigator/LINCOLN3/IM347.pdf
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