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exhaust port (Read 2618 times)
LANCER
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Re: exhaust port
Reply #75 - 06/09/10 at 12:50:55
 
bill67 wrote on 06/09/10 at 11:31:12:
Now you guys want to port your exhaust port,You will have a higher speed power band,The jet needle and needle jet on our bikes is made for our powerband,So if you port it you will need a difference jet needle and needle jet.


not so dude, not with the small amount of change we are talking about here
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bill67
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Re: exhaust port
Reply #76 - 06/09/10 at 13:06:15
 
LANCER wrote on 06/09/10 at 12:50:55:
bill67 wrote on 06/09/10 at 11:31:12:
Now you guys want to port your exhaust port,You will have a higher speed power band,The jet needle and needle jet on our bikes is made for our powerband,So if you port it you will need a difference jet needle and needle jet.


not so dude, not with the small amount of change we are talking about here

Since I've been on here you seem to have troubles getting a S40 running you must be doing something wrong.
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william h krumpen
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Re: exhaust port
Reply #77 - 06/09/10 at 13:15:17
 
bill67 wrote on 06/09/10 at 12:37:11:
I'm not talking about moto cross or race bikes,I'm talking about street bikes.I had a suzuki 550 and 750 2 cycles,They don't have the narrow powerband of a race bike.At 50 mph a Suzuki 750 2 cycle would stay even with a 750 Honda by 60mph it was running away from the Honda,And the Honda was turning more rpm.I would have to say the Suzuki had more torque this was all in high gear roll ons.



Considering they are both the same displacement engines, the Suzuki was making more power. That's why in motocross, the 450cc 4-strokes run in the same class as the 250cc 2-strokes. Pound for pound, the 2-strokes make more power... Period.

They both produce torque... That's the force it takes to move an object.

4-stroke torque is normally considered "bottom end" or low end torque. It comes on lower in the rpm's at a steady rate, dropping off after a certain level. It is more manageable and predictable.

2-stroke torque is produced well up into the rpm's also known as the power band. It comes on quickly but also drops off at a certain level. Adding multiple cylinders will smooth it out a lot, but the 4-stroke is ultimately smoother & easier to ride.

There's a lot more involved than just 2 or 4 cycles. You have stroke length, bore size, compression ratio, multiple & single cylinders, etc...
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Re: exhaust port
Reply #78 - 06/09/10 at 13:17:27
 
Good information go tell your kid Roll Eyesbtw what was the last 2 cycle street bike you had
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Re: exhaust port
Reply #79 - 06/09/10 at 14:06:39
 
Go tell my kid??

All my 2-strokes were offroad only. Never had a 2-stroke street bike. I had a friend who kept alive a '75 -(I think) kawasaki 750, 3 cylinder, 2-stroke. That thing was a BEAST! You could definitely tell it was a 2-stroke.

What's your point?
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Re: exhaust port
Reply #80 - 06/09/10 at 17:09:30
 
bill67 wrote on 06/09/10 at 13:06:15:
LANCER wrote on 06/09/10 at 12:50:55:
bill67 wrote on 06/09/10 at 11:31:12:
Now you guys want to port your exhaust port,You will have a higher speed power band,The jet needle and needle jet on our bikes is made for our powerband,So if you port it you will need a difference jet needle and needle jet.


not so dude, not with the small amount of change we are talking about here

Since I've been on here you seem to have troubles getting a S40 running you must be doing something wrong.


hmmmmm,  what's up man ?
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Re: exhaust port
Reply #81 - 06/09/10 at 17:20:26
 
LANCER wrote on 06/09/10 at 17:09:30:
bill67 wrote on 06/09/10 at 13:06:15:
LANCER wrote on 06/09/10 at 12:50:55:
bill67 wrote on 06/09/10 at 11:31:12:
Now you guys want to port your exhaust port,You will have a higher speed power band,The jet needle and needle jet on our bikes is made for our powerband,So if you port it you will need a difference jet needle and needle jet.


not so dude, not with the small amount of change we are talking about here

Since I've been on here you seem to have troubles getting a S40 running you must be doing something wrong.


hmmmmm,  what's up man ?

Shorts are a little snug today... Huh...
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Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
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LANCER
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Re: exhaust port
Reply #82 - 06/09/10 at 19:29:49
 
Serowbot wrote on 06/09/10 at 17:20:26:
LANCER wrote on 06/09/10 at 17:09:30:
bill67 wrote on 06/09/10 at 13:06:15:
LANCER wrote on 06/09/10 at 12:50:55:
bill67 wrote on 06/09/10 at 11:31:12:
Now you guys want to port your exhaust port,You will have a higher speed power band,The jet needle and needle jet on our bikes is made for our powerband,So if you port it you will need a difference jet needle and needle jet.


not so dude, not with the small amount of change we are talking about here

Since I've been on here you seem to have troubles getting a S40 running you must be doing something wrong.


hmmmmm,  what's up man ?

Shorts are a little snug today... Huh...



Grin
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Re: exhaust port
Reply #83 - 06/10/10 at 02:18:05
 
I think there is a bit of general "disgruntle" running about which occurred over in The Cafe and is now leaking out all over the place.

Due to "de general mood" it probably isn't smart to start heavy discussions about technical stuff -- or at least be sensitive that some of the folks are a bit tense about other stuff.

I rode two and four stroke bikes -- back in the 70's - 80's two strokes owned light and powerful and heavy and mighty because they made twice as many power strokes (mebbe technically "weaker" for the cc  and certainly more polluting power strokes, but a hell of lot of them).


=================================


However, I am really gonna stir this discussion up when I remind everyone that 4 stroke technology caught up when race bikes were all forced to be 4 stroke engines and 4 stroke development continued apace in both cars and bikes to new heights and 2 strokes became functionally extinct.

Let's talk about the KING, the Kawasaki H-2 750cc triple.  Unheard of hp and torque for its day.   Scarey megabike .... whhoooo  I had to grow up some before I could dare buy and ride one (and I did).

Fast forward 30 years .....

Let's talk about the old lame Suzuki SV650 and the Gladus, it's newish girly cute version.   Nice beginners bike for the ladies, you can learn on it and keep it for several years before moving on to a bigger crotch rocket or a large cruiser type.  The very least of the real crotch rocket crowd, fer shure.


Grin   Grin   Grin    now for the fun part


Please consider, kind reader, that the operating specifications, hp and top ends of the mighty H2 (KING of the two strokes) and the SV650/Gladus beginner bike are closely the SAME.

Ok, let the discussions begin .....   for sake of sanity if you are talking drag strip conditions say so and quote your quarter mile times for both bikes, etc.

If you are talking street riding conditions say so ......  etc.

And if you are going to talk about tweaked and ported, etc please do the same to the other bike to be fair.


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Re: exhaust port
Reply #84 - 06/10/10 at 04:07:27
 
Motorcycles quit making 2 cycles,But snowmobiles didn't.With rotary valves and reed valves which gave the 2 cycles lower end torque without hurting the higher end power.650 cc motors were putting out over 100 hp at only 8000 rpm,That was 20 years ago.Bottom line 2 cycle much more torque than 4 cycle.How would you like a S40 650 2 cycle putting out 100 hp.And it would be maybe 40 pounds lighter,And don't forget the good sound you get from a 2 cycle Grin
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Re: exhaust port
Reply #85 - 06/10/10 at 04:59:02
 
My first bike was a Suzuki 150 twin 2-stroke.  It was a great little bike and all my efforts at hard riding it just kept on running.
If I had the $$ I would have bought the Kaw 750 3 cyl; took a test drive on one and had a heck of a ride.  Back then you could just ride up and test drive most any bike   Smiley

Anyway, I like the simplicity of a 2 stroke and the power potential; have nothing against the 2 stroke at all.  I just happen to like the sound and power characteristics of a large 4 stroke single; and I like to tinker with them.  My skills and tools are limited so I stick with the simpler modifications and have a professional do other stuff if needed.

A few of the more recent bike builds that have been posted on this site are just amazing.  I wish I could do that type of work, but I know my limits.
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Re: exhaust port
Reply #86 - 06/10/10 at 05:01:09
 
Here's some fuel for that fire -- two strokes hit their peak development in snowmobiles, outboard motors and jet ski applications (mainly because two stroke pollution restrictions didn't hit those areas until later on).

Four stroke engines now rule those areas also -- and I was amazed to go into my fishing store and find out 1) how small and powerful 4 stroke outboard engines had become and 2) how durn expensive even a trolling motor was now-a-days.

Sorry Bill, we are both 2 stroke dinosaurs now.  Even Klotz has to sell 4 stroke oil now to stay in business because there ain't no world for two stroke engines anywhere except maybe for chain saws and little bitty air plane engines (and 4 stroke engines are showing up there now too in the larger engine sizes).

EPA drove it to get it started, but engineering development will finish it.  

Count the power strokes to see how it is all developing.  An H2 Kawasaki triple red lined at 6,800 rpm and counted out 3,400 power strokes in a minute on each cylinder, or a total of 10,200 power pulses per minute.  An SV650 red lines at 11,500 rpm and counts out 2,875 more efficient power strokes per cylinder, or a total of 5,750 power pulses per minute which is enough to give it H-2 parity at 100 fewer ccs displacement.   4 stroke pulses are simply more powerful than two stroke pulses.
(sorry Bill, they are)


But an SV650 is an older twin cylinder design now-a-days.

Consider a totally modern 599cc modern 4 stroke design which has 4 cylinders and turns up to 16,500 rpm at red line.  The math is easy anyway, 16,500 power strokes in a minute as the little beasties are even pulse tuned now to fire one cylinder per crank revolution to keep the rear tire being evenly driven at all times (racing traction being the only limiter that people even pay attention to any more since hp went well over 100 hp a while ago and they started having to tune for traction rather than peak HP)   Read your bike magazines, computerized traction control is all the rage as they can't ever use the hp that is already there without pulling big power wheelies at 150 mph.

Bill, that's well over your 100 hp magic number, already done been here for a while now readily available at any BMW, HONDA, Kawasaki or Yammaha dealership at 0% financing right now as we speak.   At less cc to boot, just to rub a little salt into the poor old two stroke's wounds.

Two strokes are dead for a reason -- they are no longer competitive.   And EPA loves them not, so they will stay dead going out into the future.

Even Klotz thinks so ....   they gotta try to make that transition into being "the 4 stroke super oil" if they can.    Maybe they can, but it's up to what Verslagen finds out when he puts it in his high performance skeeter fogger later on this summer as to whether Klotz is the Savage Super Oil or not.
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Re: exhaust port
Reply #87 - 06/10/10 at 05:12:21
 
Two strokes are dead for one reason EPA.I like 4 strokes better,But don't go back to 1970 when you talk of 2 stoke engines,There have been big improvements on 2 strokes since 1970.Race snowmobiles are putting out over 200 hp.But we need only to talk street bikes because thats what we ride.
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Re: exhaust port
Reply #88 - 06/10/10 at 05:46:44
 

Good point about them race tuned 2 stroke snowmobiles at 200 hp.
 

What is the displacement of those puppies so I can select me an equivalent displacement 4 stroke race bike?  I gots me so many to pick from, some with turbos and such at over 500 hp but I gots to limit myself to getting as close to equivalent cylinders and displacement and such (or less) just to make the salt smart more.

Or, I could just wait a bit and let someone put together a turbocharged or blown race tuned Yamaha snowmobile .....

http://www.snowmobile.com/manufacturers/yamaha/2010-yamaha-nytro-rtx-se-revie...


Grin   Grin   Grin


I can't believe them folks complaining about the 4 stroke pulling too many power wheelies in the turns "lifting the skis" too much !!    They need some of that motorcycle style computerized traction control technology on them modern snow sickles.
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Re: exhaust port
Reply #89 - 06/10/10 at 05:51:28
 
That yamaha is a trail snowmobile not a race snowmobile.That one for the wife to ride.
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