Donate!
Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register :: View Members
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 
Send Topic Print
Kamikaze II intake (Read 1304 times)
marshall13
Senior Member
****
Offline

the first step is to
admit your ignorance

Posts: 301
Fort Lauderdale FL
Gender: male
Re: Kamikaze II intake
Reply #30 - 05/27/09 at 12:07:05
 
diamond jim wrote on 05/27/09 at 05:48:26:
So am I using the wrong formula?  I like your results better using 3100! Regarding dyno type, here's the link that shows some pics of it:

http://www.rodsperformance.com/services.htm

checked about 20 sources, they all list the (PxRPM)/5250 formula, so im guessing the brain damage done in the 70s will have to explain my 3100 number... rofl
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
marshall13
Senior Member
****
Offline

the first step is to
admit your ignorance

Posts: 301
Fort Lauderdale FL
Gender: male
Re: Kamikaze II intake
Reply #31 - 05/27/09 at 12:32:15
 
SV og LS wrote on 05/27/09 at 11:51:47:
marshall13 wrote on 05/27/09 at 10:58:41:
SV og LS wrote on 05/27/09 at 01:17:19:
All dynamometers measure torque from which power is derived. Inertia dynos such as DJ 250 and its clones can print out a lot of information depending which sensors are connected and included on a printout. I part timed on a major dyno shop from 2000 to 2002.

inertia dynos cant measure torque.... they calculate HP by how quickly the wheel can accelerate a large mass... if you track rpm during the run, you can interpolate torque fairly accurately, but you cant "measure" it... the dyno sheet Jim posted previously in this thread is an inertia dyno run.... road speed and HP only, no engine speed or torque figure.... a strain-guage dyno works like a prony brake... as the dyno spins, a load is applied to the roller(a brake is applied)... the restraining arm for that brake has a strain guage on it.. that supplies the torque figure(accurately measured, not estimated by formula), that is then interpolated to HP by keeping track of engine rpm... all engine dynos are strain guage type, but chassis dynos can be either.... needless to say, any mis-calculation or measurement of the rollers mass will effect the accuracy of the inertia dyno... strain guage type can be tested for accuracy with a torque wrench....


Even with inertia dynos I always think it as torque which is inertia times acceleration and horsepower comes only when torque is multiplied with engine rpm.
Is the strain gauge similar to old water brake dynos, measuring at a constant rpm? Around here (Denmark and northern Germany) I think most if not all dynos are inertia dynos.

a water-brake dyno is pretty much a low tech strain guage type, as is the prony... though they dont run them "constant speed" anymore.. the controller applies load at a particular rpm until the engine slows, the distortion of the restraining arm at that point give the actual torque... a run would tend to start at redline, then be loaded to the torque peak rpm(engine stall point, or the threshold of it), then from low revs up to the peak torque point (or vice versa, one can do the low to peak first, and high to peak second, results will be the same)... a prony brake does the same by by using a scale at the end of a lever attached to a brake that slows the flywheel of the engine... the lever is the restraining arm, the scale the strain-guage... by running a constant engine speed, and applying the brake, one gets the "weight" measurement of the scale at the point of the engine slowing... you then repeat for each ordinate of your rpm scale... the weight registered multiplied by the arms length gives the torque....
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
LANCER
Serious Thumper
Alliance Member
*****
Offline

Savage Beast
Performance Parts

Posts: 10607
Oklahoma
Gender: male
Re: Kamikaze II intake
Reply #32 - 05/27/09 at 16:28:27
 
OK, I think I've got it; put bike on machine...run bike ... machine spits out numbers ... yep, I got it !   Grin
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
marshall13
Senior Member
****
Offline

the first step is to
admit your ignorance

Posts: 301
Fort Lauderdale FL
Gender: male
Re: Kamikaze II intake
Reply #33 - 05/27/09 at 16:43:48
 
LANCER wrote on 05/27/09 at 16:28:27:
OK, I think I've got it; put bike on machine...run bike ... machine spits out numbers ... yep, I got it !   Grin

pretty much covers it... forgot about the tie-downs though...lol
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
diamond jim
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline



Posts: 1425
North Alabama
Gender: male
Re: Kamikaze II intake
Reply #34 - 05/27/09 at 17:01:37
 
He said he'll do the exhaust analyzer too that will tell me where I need to go with the jets to fine tune it.  I'm gonna see if he can work with me and do a couple of runs with different intakes including the Kamikaze with turbulator and the K2 with different lengths. It takes all of about 14 seconds to swap them out.  

I should have it all fine tuned before the Dragon trip.    
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
marshall13
Senior Member
****
Offline

the first step is to
admit your ignorance

Posts: 301
Fort Lauderdale FL
Gender: male
Re: Kamikaze II intake
Reply #35 - 05/27/09 at 17:09:43
 
diamond jim wrote on 05/27/09 at 05:48:26:
So am I using the wrong formula?  I like your results better using 3100! Regarding dyno type, here's the link that shows some pics of it:

http://www.rodsperformance.com/services.htm

http://www.allpar.com/eek/hp-vs-torque.html

check that article out... torque multiplication by the gearing, specifically... herein may well lie our answer.... also a leverage effect between the sprocket and tire diameters(though i think it would be disadvantage).... maybe this is why folks run dynos?  lol
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
diamond jim
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline



Posts: 1425
North Alabama
Gender: male
Re: Kamikaze II intake
Reply #36 - 05/28/09 at 09:34:22
 
From: http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/runnertorquecalc.html  

"...if your camshaft is designed to peak at 4500 RPM, but your manifold and headers are tuned for 6500 RPM, your actual torque peak will fall somewhere between 4500 and 6500 RPM, and the useable torque band from 2500 to 4500 rpm will be lengthened and flattened."

I think this is what I am seeing on my bike.  The numbers may be a little different but the effect is the same.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Oldfeller--FSO
Serious Thumper
ModSquad
*****
Offline

Hobby is now
"concentrated
neuropany"

Posts: 12639
Fayetteville, NC
Gender: male
Re: Kamikaze II intake
Reply #37 - 05/28/09 at 09:44:12
 
Jim and Lancer -- are you turning over 5,500 rpm on your bikes with your head, cam and intake tract mods?

Reason I ask is that would be an answer to the "do we have a rev limiter built into the black box?" great debate.

Just curious ....

Kelly
Back to top
 
 

Former Savage Owner
  IP Logged
verslagen1
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
*****
Online

Where there's a
will, I want to be
in it.

Posts: 28790
L.A. California
Gender: male
Re: Kamikaze II intake
Reply #38 - 05/28/09 at 10:13:49
 
Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 05/28/09 at 09:44:12:
Jim and Lancer -- are you turning over 5,500 rpm on your bikes with your head, cam and intake tract mods?

Reason I ask is that would be an answer to the "do we have a rev limiter built into the black box?" great debate.

Just curious ....

Kelly

5500 takes you up to 85, I do that uphill.
A number of people have done a ton, that's 6500 rpm
Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
diamond jim
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline



Posts: 1425
North Alabama
Gender: male
Re: Kamikaze II intake
Reply #39 - 05/28/09 at 11:07:50
 
Oldfeller- No tach on mine.  And I probably often shift a little earlier than needed.  Don't really care to wind out the engine.  Just not my style.  But I hit what seemed like a rev limiter two days ago (last time I rode) with the longest K2 intake.  Never hit the rev limiter before.  They were during medium-spirited acceleration from a stop and happened in 1st and 2nd gear.  On high-spirited runs, the motor has always had a strong pull and then the torque starts to level out in the upper rpms, shift, repeat...  (see Fig. 1) But on those three times when I hit the "rev limiter" it surprised me cause the engine was just pulling along nice and even, still getting progressively stronger.. then blah (see Fig. 2).  I sensed no real strain on the motor, no flat spots, no torque falttening out, just a continuous, nice even pull then blah.  It took me a second to realize what just happened and that I was that far up in the rpm range.  Kind of like getting on a different bike for the first time.  I know these graphs aren't scientific but just trying to capture my experience in graph form.

Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
diamond jim
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline



Posts: 1425
North Alabama
Gender: male
Re: Kamikaze II intake
Reply #40 - 05/29/09 at 07:19:28
 
Leaving now to do the dyno.  Gonna use the Kamikaze 1 intake with the turbulator.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
marshall13
Senior Member
****
Offline

the first step is to
admit your ignorance

Posts: 301
Fort Lauderdale FL
Gender: male
Re: Kamikaze II intake
Reply #41 - 05/29/09 at 08:39:29
 
diamond jim wrote on 05/29/09 at 07:19:28:
Leaving now to do the dyno.  Gonna use the Kamikaze 1 intake with the turbulator.  

one buck on 39.6@5200...lol
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
SV og LS
Full Member
***
Offline

Kawasaki ZZR 1200

Posts: 236

Re: Kamikaze II intake
Reply #42 - 05/29/09 at 08:46:29
 
Virtual Euro on 35.5@5700
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
marshall13
Senior Member
****
Offline

the first step is to
admit your ignorance

Posts: 301
Fort Lauderdale FL
Gender: male
Re: Kamikaze II intake
Reply #43 - 05/29/09 at 08:47:55
 
SV og LS wrote on 05/29/09 at 08:46:29:
Virtual Euro on 35.5@5700

awright, we got a pool going!!  lots more boxes available folks!!  rofl
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
mikestrikes
Full Member
***
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 236
Decatur, AL
Gender: male
Re: Kamikaze II intake
Reply #44 - 05/29/09 at 09:01:14
 
So on K2 its the longer inlet tube and the cooler air thats getting the power over K1's air straighteners....

have you ever thought about turning the tube and filter out to the side of the tank ? But I know the K2 is a much cleaner install.

Good work....
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 
Send Topic Print


« Home

 
« Home
SuzukiSavage.com
05/19/24 at 14:40:31



General CategoryRubber Side Down! › Kamikaze II intake


SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2!
YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved.