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Removed the white spacer, what else? (Read 70 times)
Savage_Greg
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Re: Removed the white spacer, what else?
Reply #90 - 10/30/04 at 04:03:24
 
Firefighter wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:10:
Just got back...

It still pops on decel and shutting off.  I'm not too sure what else to do.

I figured out why it was dying on me the other day when I was putting it into 1st gear....
I still had the kickstand down, and I guess it won't let you into gear with it down  Embarrassed (correct?)  I had no idea.
Live and learn. Grin


Ha, ha.  I asked you about rider error.  Ha.  You know, it should be mandatory for all bikes to be sold with the original owners manual.  I think that people keep them as a souvenir when they sell the bike, but that would have helped you to know about the interlocks.

The problem with trouble shooting via the internet is a lack of the senses.  I can't hear your "pops" and compare them to those that I've actually heard.  When we bought our bikes new, at first we joked about the backfires which on a stock bike can be pretty substantial.  They are a "boom" sometimes, and not a little "pop".  However, after a while they became annoying to me and I decided to fix it.

When this started, you called them a backfire, so I immediately assumed (what else can you do on the WWW?) that your bike was stock inside the carb.  Well, we do know what "assume" means don't we?  And that is what happened...

Anyway, the pops are minor and quite common but can still be tuned out a bit better.  The way to go about it is to make sure that you have no air leaks and to make it a bit richer.

You siad you turned the screw in to 1 turn?  Why?  Does it run better that way?
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Re: Removed the white spacer, what else?
Reply #91 - 10/30/04 at 07:10:54
 
Savage_Greg wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:10:
Ha, ha.  I asked you about rider error.  Ha.  You know, it should be mandatory for all bikes to be sold with the original owners manual.  I think that people keep them as a souvenir when they sell the bike, but that would have helped you to know about the interlocks.

The problem with trouble shooting via the internet is a lack of the senses.  I can't hear your "pops" and compare them to those that I've actually heard.  When we bought our bikes new, at first we joked about the backfires which on a stock bike can be pretty substantial.  They are a "boom" sometimes, and not a little "pop".  However, after a while they became annoying to me and I decided to fix it.

When this started, you called them a backfire, so I immediately assumed (what else can you do on the WWW?) that your bike was stock inside the carb.  Well, we do know what "assume" means don't we?  And that is what happened...

Anyway, the pops are minor and quite common but can still be tuned out a bit better.  The way to go about it is to make sure that you have no air leaks and to make it a bit richer.

You siad you turned the screw in to 1 turn?  Why?  Does it run better that way?


I knew you were going to call me out on the "driver error"  Grin Grin

The guy says he has the manual, I'm just waiting for him to get it to me.

I turned it in 1 turn, because it seemed to idle a little better. Heck, I don't know anymore.  Maybe I will move the spacer back down to the 4th spot and see what happens. I'm at a loss.
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Re: Removed the white spacer, what else?
Reply #92 - 10/30/04 at 15:17:06
 
Okay, here's my update...

First, the DJ needle is ever so slightly longer than the stock needle but the added length is on the top end so it makes no difference.  The tapers appear identical.

Second, I misread the DJ instructions.  They DO say to reuse all stock washers and spacers.  They also say to set the clip at the 4th notch down.  This is the effective equivalent to using a stock needle and shaving about 1/3 of the white spacer off.  With this arrangement, I had quite a few backfires (on just about every throttle release and on shutdown).  It was pretty much like stock (except that I have the MAC muffler installed now).

Third, I changed my clip to the 5th notch down and kept the white spacer in and she seems to be running pretty well.  I have the occasional backfire/pop on throttle release when shifting but never the final fart on shutdown.  I have no visible smoke and no smell of gas, so I'm feeling okay about it so far.

I think she's pretty close to the way I want her with my current parts.  She still has the DJ 146 main jet installed (the largest in the kit) - at least until I get my larger Mikuni mains delivered.  I have a 152.5, 155, 157.5 and 160 ordered.  I'll play with those and see what works best.
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1998|MAC muffler|ceramic coated header|K&N air filter|Amal Mk2 carb|Odyssey battery|iridium plug|NC windshield|Dunlop 491s|Superbrace|EBC brake rotor|12.5" Progressive shocks|Kuryakyn ISO grips
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Re: Removed the white spacer, what else?
Reply #93 - 10/30/04 at 19:36:18
 
I haven't tried miny any further down than the 4th notch.

I just got my new OEM spacer today in the mail, so maybe I will try the 5th notch with it in and see how it runs.
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Savage_Greg
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Re: Removed the white spacer, what else?
Reply #94 - 10/31/04 at 02:22:52
 
Savage_Rob wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:10:
Third, I changed my clip to the 5th notch down and kept the white spacer in and she seems to be running pretty well.  I have the occasional backfire/pop on throttle release when shifting but never the final fart on shutdown.  I have no visible smoke and no smell of gas, so I'm feeling okay about it so far.


This sounds like progress.  No black smoke.  Good.  Did you readjust the idle mixture?

Quote:
I think she's pretty close to the way I want her with my current parts.  She still has the DJ 146 main jet installed (the largest in the kit) - at least until I get my larger Mikuni mains delivered.  I have a 152.5, 155, 157.5 and 160 ordered.  I'll play with those and see what works best.


Firefighter had a 144 DJ main installed in his.  So a 146 is the biggest DJ main?  I wonder if a 155 is bigger than that.
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Savage_Rob
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Re: Removed the white spacer, what else?
Reply #95 - 11/01/04 at 07:34:37
 
I never had any black smoke... just backfiring.  I don't know if DJ makes a larger jet but the 146 was the largest in the kit.  I believe the 155 will be larger.  I didn't think there was a heck of a lot of difference between Mikuni and DJ mains except for the intervals used and the fact that the DJ's look like the small round Mikunis instead of the large round Mikuni that was in mine originally.  We'll know soon.  I did not further adjust my idle mixture.  I seem to have gotten mine stuck in the far counterclockwise position (and it took less than 2 turns from full clockwise).  Anyway, when I've tried to turn it clockwise again, the brass head is stripping.  I need to find some solution for this at some point but at present it's just stuck.
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1998|MAC muffler|ceramic coated header|K&N air filter|Amal Mk2 carb|Odyssey battery|iridium plug|NC windshield|Dunlop 491s|Superbrace|EBC brake rotor|12.5" Progressive shocks|Kuryakyn ISO grips
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Savage_Greg
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Re: Removed the white spacer, what else?
Reply #96 - 11/01/04 at 08:06:02
 
Darn  Undecided
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Savage_Rob
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Re: Removed the white spacer, what else?
Reply #97 - 11/02/04 at 05:56:34
 
Oh, just as an addendum since we have made some note as to the value (or lack thereof) in purchasing a DJ kit or not...

Other than an adjustable needle, 5 main jets (138-146), a drill bit and a sheetmetal screw, the kit contains a coupon/certificate for a free Dyno run.  I don't know what that's worth, but it's included.
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1998|MAC muffler|ceramic coated header|K&N air filter|Amal Mk2 carb|Odyssey battery|iridium plug|NC windshield|Dunlop 491s|Superbrace|EBC brake rotor|12.5" Progressive shocks|Kuryakyn ISO grips
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Savage_Greg
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Re: Removed the white spacer, what else?
Reply #98 - 11/02/04 at 06:13:33
 
That is a plus.  Is there a face value on the coupon?  Maybe they can adjust your carb too.
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Savage_Rob
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Re: Removed the white spacer, what else?
Reply #99 - 11/02/04 at 12:48:50
 
I'd have to look at it later but I don't recall any specific value... just a free dyno run.  So far as the carb goes, if I am unable to get the mixture screw to work, I just picked up a used carb on eBay (it hasn't arrived yet) that could probably be used to correct this.  It was difficult to see the exact condition of the carb (though it only looked to be a bit dirty) but I got it for $55, so I'm hoping I did okay on the deal.
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1998|MAC muffler|ceramic coated header|K&N air filter|Amal Mk2 carb|Odyssey battery|iridium plug|NC windshield|Dunlop 491s|Superbrace|EBC brake rotor|12.5" Progressive shocks|Kuryakyn ISO grips
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Re: Removed the white spacer, what else?
Reply #100 - 11/04/04 at 05:43:29
 
I'm expecting my new Mikuni mains any day now but I did get a chance to ride in to work this morning and noticed after I arrived that I have a very brief puff of black smoke visible at the start of any throttling (from idle).  I also noticed some exhaust leakage (small amount of soot) at the juncture of the header pipe and muffler.

Any suggestions on what should be used to help seal the exhaust leak?

What would be the first thing you'd play with regarding the black smoke... the needle valve adjustment or the idle mixture screw?  I'm thinking the needle valve but would like some opinions.
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1998|MAC muffler|ceramic coated header|K&N air filter|Amal Mk2 carb|Odyssey battery|iridium plug|NC windshield|Dunlop 491s|Superbrace|EBC brake rotor|12.5" Progressive shocks|Kuryakyn ISO grips
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Re: Removed the white spacer, what else?
Reply #101 - 11/04/04 at 08:15:57
 
Savage_Rob wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:11:
 I also noticed some exhaust leakage at the jucture of header pipe and muffler.

Any suggestions on what should be used to help seal the exhaust leak?


Had the same thing. repeated tightening and finaly tightening with Air wrench did it. Have to colapse that collar around the muffler neck till it conforms to the pipe. Takes quite a bit of crunching to do it.
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Re: Removed the white spacer, what else?
Reply #102 - 11/04/04 at 08:20:35
 
Can do.  I just didn't know if there was some sort of heat-resistant tape or some sort of gasket material folks usually use between the two to enhance the seal.
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1998|MAC muffler|ceramic coated header|K&N air filter|Amal Mk2 carb|Odyssey battery|iridium plug|NC windshield|Dunlop 491s|Superbrace|EBC brake rotor|12.5" Progressive shocks|Kuryakyn ISO grips
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Re: Removed the white spacer, what else?
Reply #103 - 11/04/04 at 08:36:27
 
I thought about that too. If it had not cleared up I was going that route... but seems it has. At least seems like it or noticably better and close to it....

Normaly on these old Vespa's I do the exhaust leaks a tad early on and then fills in with gunk and seals. But those are not chrome so its not an issue to worry about it.

But I think that last real tightening I did with the air wrench got mine. Seemed to anyway.
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Re: Removed the white spacer, what else?
Reply #104 - 11/13/04 at 10:38:15
 
Whew!  This thread sat dormant for a while.  I had some difficulty procuring new mains to play with but finaly got a few (some from my local HD dealer).  Overall now, I have the DJ needle with the clip on the 4th notch and the white spacer installed - also using a Mikuni 155 main jet.  I am using a K&N direct replacement air filter and a MAC muffler.

Now I just have to record the MAC.
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1998|MAC muffler|ceramic coated header|K&N air filter|Amal Mk2 carb|Odyssey battery|iridium plug|NC windshield|Dunlop 491s|Superbrace|EBC brake rotor|12.5" Progressive shocks|Kuryakyn ISO grips
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