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cam chain tensioner mod works (Read 1006 times)
slavy
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cam chain tensioner mod works
04/17/07 at 23:31:55
 
Couple of days ago I picked up a '95 LS650 with 17XXX miles on the odo. There was  a cam chain noise, so I checked it and I was lucky. The tensioner was all crooked and ready to pop out.  I extended the tensioner and this brought it to only 3 clicks OUT. Now the bike wispers. There is not even the slightest cam chain noise. Now it is confirmed- this works.
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Oldfeller2
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Re: cam chain tensioner mod works
Reply #1 - 04/18/07 at 04:03:45
 
Please clarify -- which exact method did you use?

There have been several methods discussed on how to make the existing cam chain and tensioner "live again".  Which one did you use?

Oldfeller
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justin_o_guy
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Re: cam chain tensioner mod works
Reply #2 - 04/18/07 at 06:42:46
 
Yes. Slavy, do tell.. whatever did you deww? I have new chain & the tensioner is out .333 inches & I even tweaked the rear guide a good bit. or so I thought. I really want to get the full service from the chain, & I dont thinik it will happen without doing something to the tensioner.
You say you "extended " the tensioner, I am guessing you put a spacer between the current mount & the tensioner body, to foece the whole tensioner closer to the chain, thereby closing the tensioner into itself, ..that said, HOW did ya make the spacer?
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Savage_Rob
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Re: cam chain tensioner mod works
Reply #3 - 04/18/07 at 07:29:12
 
Are you saying you lengthened the tensioner piston?
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verslagen1
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Re: cam chain tensioner mod works
Reply #4 - 04/18/07 at 09:24:55
 
Slavy's mod is to weld an extra tab on the end.  Giving an extra hole to mount the guide to.

Am I right slavy?   Grin
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slavy
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Re: cam chain tensioner mod works
Reply #5 - 04/18/07 at 14:13:15
 
Darn it! I wish I was a little better with the computer. I have some pictures, but I am realy very lame when the things come to computers.
I extend the piston with a flat piece of metal and drill one more hole about 18 mm /center to center/ in front of the original one.  I drive the bolt thru the new hole, and this way the piston goes back pretty close to the starting position.
If somebody wants a picture of the extended piston, send me an email and I'll send You a picture.
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Savage_Rob
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Re: cam chain tensioner mod works
Reply #6 - 04/19/07 at 06:12:17
 
slavy wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:04:
Darn it! I wish I was a little better with the computer. I have some pictures, but I am realy very lame when the things come to computers.
I extend the piston with a flat piece of metal and drill one more hole about 18 mm /center to center/ in front of the original one.  I drive the bolt thru the new hole, and this way the piston goes back pretty close to the starting position.
If somebody wants a picture of the extended piston, send me an email and I'll send You a picture.

Slavy,
If you'll email the pics to me and I'll get them into this thread for you.  suzukisavage@gmail.com
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Reelthing
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Re: cam chain tensioner mod works
Reply #7 - 04/20/07 at 07:57:36
 
sorry I was fishing and 2 days late on the post!



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Re: cam chain tensioner mod works
Reply #8 - 04/20/07 at 08:13:00
 
Having yet to really tear into a bike's guts I have a question. Can the chain tensioner be gotten to to perform this chore without dis-assembly of everything?  I've got over 15k miles on mine, 5k of it interstate miles I put on during a long trip, and it seems from the reading here that I should be checking into something like this. I'm going to guess a lot has to come off to change the chain, but that's something I would prefer to save for next winter at the earliest. Now if this were a task that could be done without having to spread the whole engine all over the south forty . . .

Jack
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Re: cam chain tensioner mod works
Reply #9 - 04/20/07 at 09:08:57
 
Jack_650 wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:04:
Having yet to really tear into a bike's guts I have a question. Can the chain tensioner be gotten to to perform this chore without dis-assembly of everything?  I've got over 15k miles on mine, 5k of it interstate miles I put on during a long trip, and it seems from the reading here that I should be checking into something like this. I'm going to guess a lot has to come off to change the chain, but that's something I would prefer to save for next winter at the earliest. Now if this were a task that could be done without having to spread the whole engine all over the south forty . . .

Jack

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What you remove is the cover only, do it when you change oil. For closing up the cover you need a new gasket, that's all!!!
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Re: cam chain tensioner mod works
Reply #10 - 04/20/07 at 09:15:24
 
Thanks for posting the pics Reelthing.  To me this seems to be a truly simple (and therefore elegant) solution.  It seems the piston might even have room for a slightly longer extension and a third hole, though I'd want to measure to be sure.  I am considering this mod.
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verslagen1
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Re: cam chain tensioner mod works
Reply #11 - 04/20/07 at 09:25:06
 
By the time you need a third hole, the chain will rub on itself.   Grin

If you are carefull and lucky, you can reuse the gasket.
Mine came off fairly clean.  A little dab of sealant around the oil passage at the top just to be sure.  The worst that could happen is you have to take it off and get a new one.   Grin
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Re: cam chain tensioner mod works
Reply #12 - 04/20/07 at 20:52:10
 
Now this sounds like the kind of tensioner mod that makes sense to me.  You just do it just once per total chain/guide lifespan.  Hey, I've got both a welder and a drill press and a disc grinder/belt sander available to me.

Now for the detail questions -- is there anything about that second hole that would require the steel to be rehardened, or would mild steel stock be OK for that tab and that second hole?  Is there any long term "wear factor" to that new hole?  I guess you'll find out as you pile the miles on up and up ....

Did you reuse the existing chain guides?  Did you rebend anything about the guides when you put it back together, or did you just distance out the second hole to bring you back into the full click position?

I guess you'll answer the questions about how much chain wear the chain and chain guide system can take by doing it.  

This trick might give you something on the order of 30,000 miles total life ???   This still is a relatively short total life (compared to cars, anyway) and is thought to be due to the relatively long length of the chain and the fact the tensioner clicks under some sort of tension kickback duress condition and maintains that higher tension for a bit. (promoting several periods of faster chain stretch and guide wear as it clicks each time) -- our chain rides the pitchline of the sprocket gear teeth and it will see a constant series of stretch-compact-stretch-compact every trip around the system as the chain stretches more and more and more so it will wear faster and faster as the miles pile up.

Dumb question -- do we really need all the spring tension the fully compressed spring gives?  Obviously we may not get anywhere near that level of spring tension when we move out to the almost coming apart stage (but it still controls the cam chain slop or we'd be hearing it).

How much slop does it take to have enough slop to skip a tooth on the bottom sprocket gear?  Have any of you "got it all apart right now" guys ever tried to find out how much slop it takes?

I bet it is more free slop than you'd think as during the tooth skip you'd likely have to space out the chain to ride on top of the gear teeth for part of a turn and that would take a LOT of  free slop to accomplish.   I bet it would be real noisy if it happened when you were rolling at speed, too.   BAM!!   Backside chain guide would get bent up for sure.

-----------------  new thought -----------------

That quiet backfire that sometimes happens after you turn the motor off (and the piston is venting compression) -- is she turning backwards part of the time when she does that?  Now that sort of reverse motion is when you'd likely skip a tooth (if you had enough slop to play with that is).

Is that sort of "reversal of normal motion" is this what the heavy chain tension and clicker system is all about?

Oldfeller

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Reelthing
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Re: cam chain tensioner mod works
Reply #13 - 04/20/07 at 21:04:59
 
Of all the ?'s the only one for me is the back fire - most likely the piston is at a dead stop when the bang happens as this looks to be built up mixture in the pipe/muffler- sort of neat the spot colors on the muffler -these seem to be little fires that are sustained by puddled fuel - add enough fresh air and bang he goes.
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verslagen1
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Re: cam chain tensioner mod works
Reply #14 - 04/20/07 at 23:26:00
 
I got my replacement parts today, but didn't get the mod'd tensioner. I'll try to answer the chain slip question.  but what been said before is the tensioner has to come apart before the chain will slip.

The tension on the chain is highest when the rear chain has its straightest path.  So, with the new slavy plunger mod even with the plunger fully in, its less tension than when new.

I think the plunger is hardened for wear against the pawl.  And not for strength.

With current chain stretch, I estimate the chain will go to 50k miles.   Grin
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