Donate!
Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register :: View Members
Pages: 1 ... 25 26 27 28 
Send Topic Print
R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist (Read 1534 times)
Dave
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 18119
Camp Springs, Kentucky
Gender: male
Re: R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist
Reply #390 - 01/08/24 at 19:09:25
 
ThumperPaul wrote on 01/08/24 at 13:58:57:
PS - should the clutch cover gasket get a coating of grease or oil, or just keep it dry?


If you put it on dry - it will work fine....but you likely will never get it back off again without it sticking and tearing.

Wipe a light coat of oil on the side that faces out and doesn't have the factory sealant applied to the gasket.....and the cover will likely come off without tearing the gasket.
Back to top
 
 

Someday I will be old......But not today!

  IP Logged
ThumperPaul
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 1743
Houston, Texas
Gender: male
Re: R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist
Reply #391 - 01/08/24 at 19:34:38
 
Thanks Dave.  I haven’t even opened the plastic package the gasket came in to actually study it.  It is an OEM Suzuki gasket.  I didn’t realize in has some factory sealant on one side.  I’m not really worried about being able to reuse it.  I always expect to need a new one.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
ThumperPaul
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 1743
Houston, Texas
Gender: male
Re: R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist
Reply #392 - 01/10/24 at 14:55:05
 
Ok...  I got everything put back together except the gas tank, fuel line, and seat.  I'm waiting for a new throttle cable to completely wrap up.

EDIT: And I don't have the spark plug installed.

I decided to try to crank the motor with the spark plug removed and try to get the oil moving around.

Battery fully charged and reading 13.5V after a 15 minute rest off the charger.  Headlight comes on good and bright.

Hit the starter button and I can hear and can see the decomp move.  I adjusted to 4mm when I did the valve lash.  The starter only gave a maybe 1-2 second bump.  I then adjusted the decomp cable/solenoid for a bit more slack.  I didn't do it while on TDC - I just tried to make a small change.  Try to start again and the decomp clicked (kinda clunked) and nothing from the starter.  Reversed my decomp adjustment and nothing from the starter.

Decide to find TDC and adjust the decomp correctly.  I go to turn the motor by hand and it won't move it using pretty good amount of force.  i stopped and didn't try to force it.

I remove the exhaust valve cover inspection cover and the decomp actuator rod is sitting about 1-2mm over the rocker arm.  Looks about the position gap if the bike was TDC, but the bikes not at TDC.

Why can't I turn the motor by hand?  Why won't the starter get cranking?

What's going on?  Argh!
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 01/10/24 at 17:47:52 by ThumperPaul »  
  IP Logged
verslagen1
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
*****
Offline

Where there's a
will, I want to be
in it.

Posts: 28890
L.A. California
Gender: male
Re: R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist
Reply #393 - 01/10/24 at 17:09:05
 
1st thing to check with starter stall is did you have the stator cover off?

If so, you must have put the washers back in the wrong location.

Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
ThumperPaul
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 1743
Houston, Texas
Gender: male
Re: R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist
Reply #394 - 01/10/24 at 17:31:02
 
I did not remove the stator cover.  It is like the starter gear or something is jammed and the engine can't rotate now.  I don't know...  I was able to turn the motor by hand just a couple days ago...
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
DragBikeMike
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 4408
Honolulu
Re: R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist
Reply #395 - 01/11/24 at 02:12:16
 
Have you tried to rotate the engine by hand?  Remove the timing plug in the alternator cover and GENTLY try to rotate the engine with a 17mm socket and breaker bar.  With the spark plug removed, it should be easy to turn the engine.  Verify that you can rotate the engine at least two full revolutions without any evidence of binding.  If you feel like something is binding or hitting, STOP.

Did you double check & triple check your cam timing once the CCT was reinstalled?   Was it easy to turn when you did the double & triple checks with the CCT installed?

Did you use copper to lock your primary drive when you tightened up the clutch hub nut?  If so, did you remove the copper before you reinstalled the clutch cover?

Did you reinstall the cam thrust ring?  If the thrust ring is missing, the cam can move right & left, causing a cam sprocket bolt to rub on the aluminum head.  See replies #217 & 218.

Is there any chance you replace a cam sprocket bolt with a longer bolt, or possibly mixed up the CCT bolt with a cam bolt?  If the bolts are too long or the special CCT bolt is installed in the sprocket, same problem, the bolt can rub and cause a bind.

Did you install the clutch thrust washers in the correct locations (big one against trans bearing, small one between basket & hub)?  If you mix them up the clutch can bind.  See reply #113.

Is it possible that the transmission is in gear.  Don't trust the neutral light, verify that the thing is actually in neutral.

Did you adjust the valves with the piston at TDC compression.  This drill started out with your fishing expedition.  I had you jacking valves open with the adjusters so you could try and retrieve the chunk of wood.  Did all that get undone?  Can you feel play in the rocker arms when the engine is at TDC compression?

Back to top
 
 

Knowledge is power.
  IP Logged
Dave
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 18119
Camp Springs, Kentucky
Gender: male
Re: R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist
Reply #396 - 01/11/24 at 02:39:02
 
If you installed the oil pump drive gear that is on the clutch hub inside out.....it binds and the engine won't turn over.  (I made that mistake once).
Sad
Back to top
 
 

Someday I will be old......But not today!

  IP Logged
ThumperPaul
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 1743
Houston, Texas
Gender: male
Re: R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist
Reply #397 - 01/11/24 at 05:16:23
 
Thanks guys.

I was trying to turn the motor with a ratchet and 17mm socket.  Thats how I learned it’s stuck.  I quit trying when I realized it was taking too much force compared to a couple days ago.

I did not mix up bolts.  I had everything individually bagged.  I didn’t mix up the thrust washers.  I stored the 1 thrust washer and bearing on the transmission shaft and kept the other 1 separate.  

Motor turned by hand normally after I did the valve lash, turned 2 turns and verified the clearances.

It is in neutral.  I can roll the bike around without pulling the clutch.  

I did use a piece of soft copper to lock up the gears when torquing the clutch bolt.  I removed it.

I was careful.  Not sure what mistake I could have made.

Can I pull the starter and hit the starter button to see if the gear is turning?  Or does it need to be installed to be grounded?  EDIT: Ignore this dumb question before I had enough coffee.  I'll remove it and bench test it with battery cable and battery.

I had removed the starter to change the o-ring before I began the R&R.  Could I have installed it wrong to where the gears don’t mesh up?  Doesn’t seem possible….  But the engine was turning fine before I hit the starter button to try to turn the motor.  Can I pull the starter and see if the engine will turn with the starter removed?   Can the starter seize up?  The prior owner replaced the starter, relay, and battery.  He had it running a for few weeks and then it wouldn’t start for him.  I almost think I’m running into the same issue…. How can I rule out the starter or determine if it is the starter?

Can I turn the motor backwards without damaging anything (like oil pump or something)?

What can I try before I remove the clutch cover and possibly head cover and reinspect everything?  

I did install the 46.5mm clutch pushrod.  The release arm is in the lower portion of the range.  The 45.5mm put it in the top of the range.  There was no perfect happy medium.  I also installed the heavier Barnett clutch springs.

Or do I get the joy of doing this all over minus pulling the head?  I’m really starting to hate this bike.  And mostly my lack of knowledge and mechanical skills.
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 01/11/24 at 08:52:01 by ThumperPaul »  
  IP Logged
verslagen1
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
*****
Offline

Where there's a
will, I want to be
in it.

Posts: 28890
L.A. California
Gender: male
Re: R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist
Reply #398 - 01/11/24 at 09:06:52
 
ThumperPaul wrote on 01/11/24 at 05:16:23:
Can I turn the motor backwards without damaging anything (like oil pump or something)?

What can I try before I remove the clutch cover and possibly head cover and reinspect everything?  


What year is the motor?  Anything prior to '95(?) doesn't have a starter motor torque limiter gear so turning it backwards can engage the one way clutch and try to turn the starter motor.  This takes a LOT of power and can bust out the bosses or break teeth.  I suppose you could do it if you pull the starter motor 1st.

Quote:
I had removed the starter to change the o-ring before I began the R&R.  Could I have installed it wrong to where the gears don’t mesh up?  Doesn’t seem possible….  But the engine was turning fine before I hit the starter button to try to turn the motor.  Can I pull the starter and see if the engine will turn with the starter removed?   Can the starter seize up?  The prior owner replaced the starter, relay, and battery.  He had it running a for few weeks and then it wouldn’t start for him.  I almost think I’m running into the same issue…. How can I rule out the starter or determine if it is the starter?


I don't think so.
I'd pull the stator cover and take a look there 1st seeing the PO had a similar problem.  It maybe a broken tooth or something is floating around in there.
Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
DragBikeMike
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 4408
Honolulu
Re: R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist
Reply #399 - 01/11/24 at 09:39:55
 
"Can I pull the starter and see if the engine will turn with the starter removed?"

If you mean remove the starter and try to turn the engine by hand, yes.  That's a good idea.  You can also bench test the starter while you have it removed.

Dave's suggestion about the oil pump drive gear is also excellent.  That gear was discussed in detail.  I will try to find the number of the reply.

You haven't mentioned the cam thrust ring.  Did you reinstall it?
Back to top
 
 

Knowledge is power.
  IP Logged
ThumperPaul
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 1743
Houston, Texas
Gender: male
Re: R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist
Reply #400 - 01/11/24 at 09:45:01
 
Will see what the starter is doing off the bike.  I’m 99% sure I got the oil pump gear right.  I was sensitive to that and the dowel.

Let’s see what I can figure out removing the starter.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
DragBikeMike
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 4408
Honolulu
Re: R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist
Reply #401 - 01/11/24 at 09:47:10
 
The details on the oil pump drive gear are in replies #97 & 98.
Back to top
 
 

Knowledge is power.
  IP Logged
ThumperPaul
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 1743
Houston, Texas
Gender: male
Re: R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist
Reply #402 - 01/11/24 at 10:04:42
 
Thanks Mike.  I have referred back to those replies and the video.  I'm almost positive I go it right, but I'm doubting myself about everything right now.

Thanks Verslagen.  The bike is a 2006 and I don't think it's had a motor swap.  I did read your post and thread about that issue.

Let me remove the starter and go from there.  I'll let y'all know.  Thanks.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
ThumperPaul
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 1743
Houston, Texas
Gender: male
Re: R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist
Reply #403 - 01/11/24 at 10:17:56
 
I'm starting to think I may have installed the oil pump drive gear backwards.  The motor was turning fine before I reinstalled the clutch, and I don't recall checking to turn the motor after I installed the clutch.

I think I'm looking at the photos right.  The dowel should face the inside of the motor and not on the clutch hub side.  Right?

I may have got this backwards.

I still want to check the starter first.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
ThumperPaul
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 1743
Houston, Texas
Gender: male
Re: R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist
Reply #404 - 01/11/24 at 12:17:39
 
The starter works fine on the bench. The motor still won’t turn with a ratchet and 17mm at the timing cover crank.

I guess I’m going back in to look at the oil pump gear and dowel.

Not happy or having fun….
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Pages: 1 ... 25 26 27 28 
Send Topic Print


« Home

 
« Home
SuzukiSavage.com
10/07/24 at 09:29:05



General CategoryRubber Side Down! › R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist


SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2!
YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved.