Donate!
Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register :: View Members
Pages: 1 ... 22 23 24 25 26 ... 28
Send Topic Print
R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist (Read 1534 times)
ThumperPaul
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 1744
Houston, Texas
Gender: male
Re: R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist
Reply #345 - 12/31/23 at 16:04:51
 
This seems like too much slack.  My finger between the chain and front chain guide.  But I have no idea.

To Gary's point - stretched chain.  

It's like you have to chose between having a sizable amount of slack and line up the index marks nice OR be a few degrees off and remove the slack up front.
Back to top
 

Chain_Slack_front_guide.jpeg
  IP Logged
Dave
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 18119
Camp Springs, Kentucky
Gender: male
Re: R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist
Reply #346 - 12/31/23 at 16:44:40
 
When you install the tensioner - it has a spring and ratchet.

It adjust the tension and takes up the slack on the backside chain.

Your only real indication of the chain and guide condition is how far the plunger was extended.  If I remember correctly your tensioner was out pretty far - but with the  Verslagen modification you get an extended life for the chain.

When you get this back together and running - I believe you will likely have enough technical skill to take this engine apart again - and perhaps a hotter piston and the performance cam next time.  You can decide if you want a new chain and/or guides then.



Back to top
 
 

Someday I will be old......But not today!

  IP Logged
ThumperPaul
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 1744
Houston, Texas
Gender: male
Re: R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist
Reply #347 - 12/31/23 at 17:05:32
 
Thanks Dave.  I know the tensioner will take care of the backside.  How much slack should be on the front side.  I can get my finger in between the guide and the chain.  I know when the crank gear pulls this side, it will use up some of the slack and it needs some slack.  But how much is too much?  

Too much slack could cause chain jumping or snap it.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
DragBikeMike
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 4408
Honolulu
Re: R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist
Reply #348 - 12/31/23 at 19:31:25
 
"An important related question is… how much slack should be in the chain on the front cam chain guide side?  Should it be super tight against the guide?  Or should I be able to easily get my finger in between the front chain guide and the chain."

The front side of the chain is the drive side, during operation it will be under tension.  There shouldn't be any slack on the drive side.  As Dave mentioned, when you install the tensioner that front side of the chain should be tight.

I run a short cylinder.  With that short cylinder I'm sure I have way more slack in my system than most anyone else.  I monitor my cam chain by checking the distance between the drive side and the slack side.  I use a drill bit.

This picture shows where I insert the bit.  Note that I have a unique CCT.  It doesn't use a pawl, so it doesn't lock up like the stocker or the Verslagy, but it is set up with only about 1mm back travel.  The slack side is pretty darned tight.  That is a 7/16" drill bit.  I suspect you should have more than 7/16" clearance when the rear guide is pushed hard against the slack side of the chain.
Back to top
 

Drive_Side__vs_Slack_Side_Check.jpg

Knowledge is power.
  IP Logged
DragBikeMike
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 4408
Honolulu
Re: R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist
Reply #349 - 12/31/23 at 19:37:29
 
By now you have probably figured out that the crank drifts off the TDC mark.  That's because the magnets in the alternator rotor tend to auto-rotate the crank a bit.  You should recheck your cam timing once the CCT is installed.  That will be the true test.  

I use this simple tool to keep the crank in position when I am setting up the cam timing.  Just put an 8mm bolt in the hole adjacent to the primary drive gear and lightly tighten the bolt against the balance shaft timing gear.  Key words & phrases, "LIGHTLY TIGHTEN".  Just past finger tight, maybe 10 to 20 inch-lbs.
Back to top
 

Crank_Break_Rear_Guide_Wired.jpg

Knowledge is power.
  IP Logged
DragBikeMike
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 4408
Honolulu
Re: R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist
Reply #350 - 12/31/23 at 19:50:57
 
Set the crank up exactly on the TDC marks, then "LIGHTLY TIGHTEN" the special bolt.  Sometimes the action of the bolt may tend to rotate the crank a bit so you might have to go back & forth a bit until you are satisfied with the timing mark alignment.  

With the CCT installed, the timing marks on the cam should line up even with the head cover sealing surface, just like the photo you posted.  If you are satisfied, loosen the special bolt and rotate the engine 360 degrees.  Then line up the timing marks on the alternator rotor again and lock in place with the special bolt.  Then do a double check of the marks on the cam.  Seems like I can never do this check enough.  It never hurts to double and triple check.  Now is the time to make sure it's right, you can rotate the engine all you want and nothin is gonna hit.  

Once you put the head cover back on, the timing better be right.  Those rocker arms are gonna connect the cam to the valves.  If you have the timing out of whack, you can run a valve into the piston (or should I say run the piston into a valve).

Don't forget to remove the special crank lock bolt.
Back to top
 
 

Knowledge is power.
  IP Logged
ThumperPaul
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 1744
Houston, Texas
Gender: male
Re: R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist
Reply #351 - 01/01/24 at 05:58:48
 
Thanks Mike.

You nailed it!  “Drive side” is the term my mechanical vocabulary was lacking.  I need to move it 1 tooth to remove the slack I currently have on the drive side.

Yes I did learn that - the crankshaft does want to move 2-3 degrees right at the moment of getting the marks perfectly lined up.  It’s infuriating.  I am going to try the special 8mm bolt trick.  Hopefully I can walk from one side of the bike to the other and get the bolt in there before it decides to magnetically rotate.

I know getting this right is extremely critical.  Now that I’ve fumbled around with the cam, gear, locating dowel, and chain for a couple hours, I think I can do this.  It’s quite an exercise getting this to all go together and lined up correctly.  I knew it would be a challenge, but putting my hands on it makes it real.  Thanks again!

Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Dave
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 18119
Camp Springs, Kentucky
Gender: male
Re: R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist
Reply #352 - 01/01/24 at 10:41:24
 
Here is an example of how I apply the Suzukibond sealant.

This is just a quick example on an engine in need of some maintenance.

I use either 3ml or 5ml syringe - I can get them at the Vet or Walgreens.  The 3ml tip is not as nice as the one on the 5ml - but it works fine.
Back to top
 

IMG_2858.JPG

Someday I will be old......But not today!

  IP Logged
Dave
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 18119
Camp Springs, Kentucky
Gender: male
Re: R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist
Reply #353 - 01/01/24 at 10:42:38
 
I start by removing the plunger and loading it with RTV - it goes into the syringe easily.......where gloves as this stuff does not come off your skin easily.
Back to top
 

IMG_2859.JPG

Someday I will be old......But not today!

  IP Logged
Dave
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 18119
Camp Springs, Kentucky
Gender: male
Re: R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist
Reply #354 - 01/01/24 at 10:44:05
 
This is how I hold the syringe when applying the RTV.

With a little practice you can get a nice smooth bead by coordinating the push on the plunger with the movement across the head.
Back to top
 

IMG_2860.JPG

Someday I will be old......But not today!

  IP Logged
Dave
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 18119
Camp Springs, Kentucky
Gender: male
Re: R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist
Reply #355 - 01/01/24 at 10:46:26
 
The applied bead should be about the size of a #2 pencil lead.  (I got this a bit too thick as I was trying to hold the camera and apply RTV at the same time).

Don't apply too much - anything that squeezes out is excess....once on the inside/outside of the joint it is no longer doing any sealing.
Back to top
 

IMG_2861.JPG

Someday I will be old......But not today!

  IP Logged
Dave
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 18119
Camp Springs, Kentucky
Gender: male
Re: R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist
Reply #356 - 01/01/24 at 10:47:34
 
This is the cam chain side......as I stated this is just a bit too thick and a bit too erratic - I can do better with both hands to stead the work.
Back to top
 

IMG_2862.JPG

Someday I will be old......But not today!

  IP Logged
Dave
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 18119
Camp Springs, Kentucky
Gender: male
Re: R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist
Reply #357 - 01/01/24 at 10:48:27
 
Here is an example of the sealant around the cam area.

I do apply a thin bead of sealant around both sides of the locating dowel.

The area above the spark plug is a place where I have seen leaks on a couple of engines.  Make sure this area is clean and smooth when you apply the sealant....and that you don't bump the sealant off as you install the head cover.
Back to top
 

IMG_2863.JPG

Someday I will be old......But not today!

  IP Logged
Dave
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 18119
Camp Springs, Kentucky
Gender: male
Re: R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist
Reply #358 - 01/01/24 at 10:51:55
 
This is how the sealant spreads out when you apply the head cover.  This sealant was just slightly too thick and a smaller bead should be used.
Back to top
 

IMG_2864.JPG

Someday I will be old......But not today!

  IP Logged
Dave
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 18119
Camp Springs, Kentucky
Gender: male
Re: R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist
Reply #359 - 01/01/24 at 10:52:53
 
Same type photo on the cam side....a bit thinner bead would have been better.

You only need to get sealant without gaps - it is not desirable to have sealant squeezing out the joint as the head cover is torqued down.

I do wipe off any obvious/obnoxious sealant that oozes out in places that will be visible.  If you use any mineral spirits or mild solvent to wipe off excess sealant - only use a lightly dampened rag and do not saturate the surface with solvent.
Back to top
 

IMG_2865.JPG

Someday I will be old......But not today!

  IP Logged
Pages: 1 ... 22 23 24 25 26 ... 28
Send Topic Print


« Home

 
« Home
SuzukiSavage.com
10/07/24 at 13:23:29



General CategoryRubber Side Down! › R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist


SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2!
YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved.