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R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist (Read 1534 times)
DragBikeMike
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Re: R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist
Reply #150 - 12/21/23 at 16:54:33
 
I can't imagine any scenario where you can't put the thing in gear, but if you just can't get it in gear, you can lock up the primary drive with soft material.  Key words and phrases, "SOFT".

Those fittings you show in your picture look like "rigid" copper fittings.  They are too hard.  You want annealed copper.  That's why I suggested "soft rolled copper tubing".

This is a picture of some old soft rolled copper tubing.  See how it is coiled up.  You can coil it up because it is soft.  It is easy to bend.  Its annealed.  Some guys say use a penny; I say don't use a penny, it's not soft enough.  Use annealed copper.  So, get the readily available soft rolled copper tubing.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist
Reply #151 - 12/21/23 at 17:00:20
 
I take a section of the copper tubing about 4 to 6 inches long and fold over one end, then flatten it out in my vice.  You want to limit the folding and flattening.  Copper work hardens, so the more you bend and flatten it, it gets harder.  One fold, one flatted, then stop.

You can see from this picture how the tubing is folded and flattened.  You can also see the end where it was crushed in the primary gear mesh.  One time use only.  Once it's been subjected to the fold/flatten/crush regimen, I discard it.  
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DragBikeMike
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Re: R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist
Reply #152 - 12/21/23 at 17:07:06
 
Make sure your battery is disconnected before you try to break the clutch nut loose or work anywhere around the primary drive.

To get your clutch hub nut loose, you insert the soft rolled copper in the primary gear mesh from the bottom.  You will probably have to hold the copper in the gear mesh until you start to turn the clutch nut.  As you turn the nut counterclockwise, the clutch will turn and rotate the gear, which in turn will pull the copper into the mesh.  That will lock up the primary drive.  Continue to turn the socket wrench and the nut should break loose.

Insert the copper from the bottom to break the nut loose.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist
Reply #153 - 12/21/23 at 17:08:26
 
If you are installing the nut, insert the copper from the top to lock the primary drive while you tighten the hub nut.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist
Reply #154 - 12/21/23 at 17:13:57
 
"When you say “snag the gear” with your fingers, can you please elaborate?  What the best hand and fingers to get in there?  Do I need to pull the assembly out a bit to get my fingers back there."

Yes, you probably need to pull the basket out just a bit.  I use my right hand, but I suspect your left hand will work equally as well.

When you reinstall the basket, it may not go all the way in.  If it does that, just rotate the oil pump gear back and forth a bit until the drive gear on the clutch basket lines up (meshes) with the pump gear.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist
Reply #155 - 12/21/23 at 17:16:12
 
"I suspect I need to re-verify TDC on the compression stroke before I pull the head cover.  Did I turn it off TDC when the whole apparatus turned?  I can check this myself, but I wanted to throw the question out there for better understanding."

Yes, reverify TDC compression stroke.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist
Reply #156 - 12/21/23 at 17:24:33
 
"I don't see or feel any energy trying to move through the belt to the rear wheel."

If it's not locked up, it is not in gear.  Either get it in gear, or lock up the primary drive.  BTW, to use the primary drive method, you need to tighten the bolts on the clutch springs all the way so that the clutch doesn't slip.  You don't need to make the bolts super-tight, just enough to compress the springs enough to keep the clutch from slipping.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist
Reply #157 - 12/21/23 at 17:32:28
 
You are not defeated.  One thing I find admirable is that you stop and ask.  That is a really good attribute.  You can always stop and ask.  You have come this far, nothing is broken.  A lot of guys would have wrecked it trying to get the wood out of the cylinder.  Go slow, stop and ask, make sure you understand before proceeding.  We got nothin but time.

Cool
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ThumperPaul
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Re: R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist
Reply #158 - 12/21/23 at 17:40:26
 
Fair enough with the newbie green inexperienced reference.  I'll give this another crack.

For the record, I mentioned a chisel and would have got the lock washer straightened out.  I need to limit my questions to only the most challenging for me so I don't appear to be such a knob.  

I've had other bikes that I could get into 5th without all the rocking back and forth, or trying to be a contortionist -- rotating the rear wheel while off the ground and while shifting thru the gears.  I'll get this.  Didn't know the Savage needed this extra rocking tactic.

I thought about the rolled copper like used installing automatic ice makers.  I thought I had some left over and would have used it, but I've misplaced it or used it.  So instead I bought the copper couplers for about $1 each.  They're not terribly hard in my experience working with them, but if you say so, I'll refrain from using.

Thanks for putting up with me and helping me!
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ThumperPaul
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Re: R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist
Reply #159 - 12/22/23 at 06:26:22
 
Mike, your 1st clue that I’m a knucklehead was getting a piece of wood stuck down in the cylinder!  Lol!

Today is a new day!
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ThumperPaul
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Re: R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist
Reply #160 - 12/22/23 at 07:33:23
 
Ok.  Clutch assembly nut removed (no crushed up copper tubing jamming required).

What's the trick to pulling out the entire clutch assembly?  I can get it to back out about 1/4" and then it gets stuck.  I can see that it's not jammed at the visible gears.  How much force is required?  And I can feel how I'm supposed to snag the oil pump gear.  

Prying is obviously a bad idea -one must be very careful and pull it out square and straight.  Am I just being scared and weak?  I can't really wiggle it (probably a really good thing).
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ThumperPaul
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Re: R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist
Reply #161 - 12/22/23 at 07:36:00
 
And I think I want a new locking washer.  It's not too mangled out of shape and could probably be reused, but I think I just want a new one and fresh start.
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Surviving Philly
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Re: R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist
Reply #162 - 12/22/23 at 07:41:30
 
So, you're at a point now where you can either pull the entire basket out or just the plates -- if you're pulling the entire basket just go ahead and get your hands around it and pull but be mindful again about that dowel pin for the oil pump gear.

If you're pulling the plate pack out first or only just wiggle it free from the basket while pulling out -- I would have one hand on the basket another on the pressure plate or spring studs and pull from there.

It's not catching on anything, nothing is holding it in at this point you're good to just pull it out.

As far as jamming the gears for reassembly, I'm pretty sure last time I did my clutch I was able to put it in gear, hold the rear brake lever at the drum with one hand while torquing down the basket nut with a 1/2 Inch torque wrench in the other. I've never Jammed the gears personally.
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ThumperPaul
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Re: R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist
Reply #163 - 12/22/23 at 07:51:10
 
Thanks Philly.  I am trying to pull the whole basket including the oil pump gear.  Trying to keep it all together with the dowel pin still captured.

Am I thinking about this wrong?  I'm trying to snag (as Mike put it) the oil pump gear as well.  Am I reading that right?

My assemble is pretty dry.  I may need to get some oil in there behind the basket and on the shaft and gears.  Can't hurt.

I just don't have any experience to know how hard I need to pull.
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ThumperPaul
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Re: R&R Cylinder Head with Tech Assist
Reply #164 - 12/22/23 at 08:46:01
 
Ok.  Some oil and removing the clutch pack first made everything easy.
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