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advchopper build (Read 531 times)
Zoltan
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advchopper build
11/27/23 at 06:06:11
 
Hi All, I thought I will fire off a thread for my project to ask questions, discuss ideas and show off a bit. Wink

First things first, I'm a short guy with about 25 years of experience in riding bikes and fixing them... and since I grew up in Hungary with modest means, it usually meant a lot more fixing than riding.

So why a Savage?

For many-many years I've been a lover of all things Czech... I love Czech beer, drive am old Skoda, wear Czech army pants... had 7 Jawas over the years, including the first bikes that I butchered with ideas of modification. (mea culpa, I was 16)
Rode a Jawa 634 and 632 extensively, even for longer trips with frequent stops to adjust ignition, fiddle with the carb, generally keep the whole contraption from falling apart.

And I always really liked the clean nice shape of the Savage. Being a thumper too was very appealing, after all one thing you learn on Eastern block bikes: The Simple the better!
So whenever i thought about dropping the 2 smokers I thought about Savage. I can't really put my finger on it, I just loved the shape and the great big sodding aircooled engine!

ADVchopper?
I must apologize, I know, silly, the name is intended as a pun.
Smile to yourselves, I know, Savage is the probably not the best base to make it into an Africa Twin, but hey, If all your life you looked UP to the saddle of an adventurer, knowing that you'd need to carry a small stepladder to climb on, all you want is an adv bike. Am I right? Cheesy
Hell, I used to lower my Jawas, removed foam from a GS450 seat and tiptoed uncertainly every time i stopped the CZ175 that was my last Czech ride.
It's a stupid idea, yeah, but i love the looks. And I do not intend to ride up the Tatras, only on nice flat dirtracks on the Polish plains. Cheesy Ground clearance is less important than reaching the ground from the saddle, OK?
Wink

So... Ever since i sold the CZ a year ago, i've been hunting for something light and low... Especially loving the 1970-ies dirtbikes, but they are very rare over here. (I live in Poland)
Cried over not being able to buy a Honda CT125, or import a Yamaha AG200. Thought a lot about buying a CM200, I owned one a few years back and it was great... Then the Suzuki came along in the local ads, and I ended up buying it.

And it's awesome! Never had that big thumper feel before, I must admit, I'm hooked.

So, that's about the reasons, I thought I owed it to you guys to explain my unholy idea. Let's see the bike and the ideas, the issues.
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Zoltan
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Re: advchopper build
Reply #1 - 11/27/23 at 06:32:00
 
The bike: pretty original, 1989 Savage, 4 gears.
It has some 40k kms on the clock, but recording mileage on technical inspections is relatively new phenomenon over here, so that is to be taken with a big pinch of salt.

Thanks to this website I did a through inspection/maintenance session:
cam chain tensioner still has about 10mm to go (it's the original, not modified), and more or less everything is working.

Electrical connections are quite corroded / dirty, I have good charge only with lights on, and i suspect that decompressor solenoid is quite weak. (more of that later)

Tires were crap but otherwise the rest is in neat shape.

Lately i went to ever lighter bikes, CM200: 120kg, CZ175, 130kg, so the Savage's 174 (got it measured at the local scrap metal yard!) feels heavy. Of course It's a 650, but hey, I was looking for some old 250 dirtbike, right?

So the idea:
Basically a tracker-kinda thing without raising it too much. Knobby tires (of course), dirtbike front fender, fork boots, an entirely different rear section, but I keep the seat, the belt drive even airbox, though that might end up thrown to the pyre at the end.

It's wintertime here, so building time.
Unless... with a mate we aim to make it to Elefanttreffen, so bike should be ready (even if I won't) by first weekend of February.

So, what has been done?
I promise, I'll upload the pictures.

- Got an old rear fender, taillight from a bike that I rode to UK when I still had a lot of hair... It's a Jawa 634 rear end, so i figured i'll transform a bit of it onto the savage. So there's that. Also got some whatever dirtbike front fender from a project I had so we got that, and there's the MIG welder and some pipes.

Got new tires on:
Rear: Wanda 130/90r15, knobby, and pretty much the only one availble in this size. Not much info on it, so I'm not too hopeful, but if someone has experience with it, shoot!

Front:Since Elefanttreffen is a stable 1400km there and back, I invested into a wintertire, 100/90r19, Mitas E07+. I read pretty good things, though not on a Savage. Cheesy

Built a subframe to hold the rear fender and be a base for some luggage rack that's gonna be needed.

Installed the fork boots. (Benelli Imperiale 400 boots, they were pretty cheap, a tad short I think, we'll see if they slide down)

Made a bit of steel plate with half of the original horn mount to hold the front fender. Very Fiddly to install and i'm not famous of having patience. There was some swearing included. But it's on. Front looks wicked, very weird but in the good way!

Jawa rear lights with Simson turnlights (they were available and cheap here) installed, electrics to be wired up properly.

Oh, and got original foot controls. Mine were even more forward and it was very weird for my short legs. The original is fine. As what i got second hand was a horrid mangled set of scrap with missing footpegs I installed .... Jawa footpegs. Cheesy

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Zoltan
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Re: advchopper build
Reply #2 - 11/27/23 at 06:54:04
 
This is where we start from:
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Zoltan
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Re: advchopper build
Reply #3 - 11/27/23 at 06:55:21
 
rear section is almost 9kg!
(that's fender, chrome sides, lamps, backrest)  Quite a bit chunk!
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Zoltan
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Re: advchopper build
Reply #4 - 11/27/23 at 06:57:29
 
fabricated a holder for the front fender. (Unknown origin)
it's welded to the top half of the horn mount. We'll see how it holds up, I'm not sure about the fatigue.
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Zoltan
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Re: advchopper build
Reply #5 - 11/27/23 at 07:03:23
 
This was the basic idea. (since then it's finished, painted, mounted) A U bent 21mm pipe (I believe 2mm thickness) that i had lying around.
Mind you, my bending tools are limited, a bit more complex bend the rises up towards the end would be nicer perhaps. This shape gives good mounting points for:
- top shock mounts
- big threads at the end of the frame
- mounts the fender at the middle

And I wanted a bit of pipe to grab the bike when moving it about the garage / yard. This gives it.
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Re: advchopper build
Reply #6 - 11/27/23 at 07:05:30
 
It mounts neatly to to threaded points at the end of the bike frame and just visible towards the front, slides in between the frame and rear shock absorbers. (there's a U cut to to that)
On this picture I already had the regulator bolted down.
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Zoltan
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Re: advchopper build
Reply #7 - 11/27/23 at 07:07:30
 
Meanwhile:
not mentioned before but got Yamaha Grizzly petcock. Perfect. removing/ mounting the fuel tank saves a few hairs and a few years off my lifespan. Huge difference, and I never trusted fancy vacuum things... Like I said before, eastern bikes, simplicity, patience.
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Zoltan
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Re: advchopper build
Reply #8 - 11/27/23 at 07:12:35
 
That's pretty much the present state:
Rear section is almost done, rather cosmetic changes.
Wanda rear tire, Jawa fender, Jawa rear light (modified to take a 21/5 bulb) Simson or MZ plastic turnlights.
The U pipe is done, mounted with rubber grommet to the fender.
That ugly long bolt stands out as i'll have to build a luggage rack and it will mount there.

Ah, Jawa footpegs!
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Re: advchopper build
Reply #9 - 11/27/23 at 07:13:10
 
I'm sure somebody will tell me how to add multiple pictures...? Cheesy
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Zoltan
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Re: advchopper build
Reply #10 - 11/27/23 at 07:15:50
 
And the front, Benelli 400 boots, unknown fender. Horn moved to one of those plugged threaded holes just in front of the tank.
And a lovely Mitas E07+!

As I do not want to get into too big a job before Elefanttreffen, handlebars will stay for now. (of course, enduro style would match better)
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Re: advchopper build
Reply #11 - 11/27/23 at 07:23:19
 
Next job, nad help / advise hoped for:

- checking decompressor.
Might be my battery weak, in the summer i often had this horrid 1/2 second when starter stalled, then always pulled through and fired up.
After buying I checked all, worked pretty well, but the issue was the same.
Electronics works, decompressor cable adjusted... Can it be just too weak and it can't lift the arm to open the exhaust valve?
I have seen manual decomp mentioned a lot... will it work if i add a cable to the handlebar with a 60-ies style choke lever? I assume you need bigger force than that. Of course, I can also make that lever right there on the cyl head, I've seen that done on the forum.

-carb cleaning / adjust. I assume as a 1989 it will have the notches in the needle to adjust?
Issue: fires into the air after turning it off. It was quite fun at first, now it's more like a redneck thing and I'm hoping in front of the post office it would quit doing that. No backfire on deceleration though, only if I go downhill for a long long time.

Everything is stock now, airfilter, exhaust. It was serviced, cleaned, replaced not long ago, so new plug, new filters. Starts fine, and pulls fine.
Probably could be much better, I can't compare of course.
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Re: advchopper build
Reply #12 - 11/27/23 at 18:11:51
 
Zoltan wrote on 11/27/23 at 07:23:19:
- checking decompressor.
Might be my battery weak, in the summer i often had this horrid 1/2 second when starter stalled, then always pulled through and fired up.
After buying I checked all, worked pretty well, but the issue was the same.
Electronics works, decompressor cable adjusted... Can it be just too weak and it can't lift the arm to open the exhaust valve?

The decomp is the type of solenoid that prefers to be very loose to work.
and unless the starter stalls which means it didn't open the exhaust, you don't need to tighten it.

If you hear the rata tat tat of the relay, the battery is too weak.
Check the battery voltage while starting, if it drops below 10v, there's not enough volts to power the electronics and it work ever start.
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Zoltan
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Re: advchopper build
Reply #13 - 11/27/23 at 22:35:40
 
Yesterday evening I did hook it up to some petrol and hit the start button. All worked perfectly fine, the solenoid lifted the decomp arm, bike started perfectly (it's 3 degrees C in the garage and bike has not run for weeks) I'm actually impressed.
So much so that i might scrap the idea getting the carb apart, after all... 'is something is not broken, don't fix it!'

Solenoid is very loose, adjusted the cable according to the manual on this forum. Bloody good stuff!

I'll measure voltage when starting though, that a neat idea.

What makes it go bang after i turned it on? It's a proper backfire a good 1-2 seconds after you switch it off.
And there's a horrible clank after the engine stops when you turn it off. What would that be? Is that normal?


EDIT:
Just came accross this from Verslagen in another decomp-related thread:
"However, there is an issue at shutdown.  The piston will sometimes stop on the compression stroke and the crank will turn backwards to release pressure.  Going backwards will engage the one-way clutch of the starter.  The starter is strong enough to resist turn and excessive forces will either break teeth or blow out the bosses supporting the shafts.  This was fixed when they added the torque limiter gear."
Is that the horrid CLANG after stopping it? Should I worry?
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« Last Edit: 11/28/23 at 01:09:42 by Zoltan »  
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Re: advchopper build
Reply #14 - 11/28/23 at 03:28:06
 
Zoltan wrote on 11/27/23 at 22:35:40:
What makes it go bang after i turned it on? It's a proper backfire a good 1-2 seconds after you switch it off.
And there's a horrible clank after the engine stops when you turn it off. What would that be? Is that normal?




It is normal for the Savage to make a "Poof" in the exhaust right after you shut the bike down.  When you turn off the ignition the engine is still turning and still pulling fuel/air into the cylinder for a few revolutions - but since the ignition is OFF there is no spark - so the unburned fuel/air mix is pumped out into the exhaust.  The exhaust header is often hot enough to heat up the unburned fuel/air mix to the flash point where it ignites in the header.....and it makes a "Poof".  One some bikes the "Poof" can be as loud as a rifle shot......a high engine idle speed and a lean idle fuel mixture can make the bang really loud.

The "clunk" from the starter assembly occurs immediately as the engine is turned off and comes to a rolling stop.  As the engine is slowing down and it comes up to the last bit of motion - it can come up on the compression stroke and build up pressure....but it doesn't have enough momentum to get over TDC.  When this happens the engine reverses direction and spins backwards (sometimes this can also cause the mixture in the cylinder to ignite and spin the engine backward at excessive speed......I believe this is when the damage to the case can occur).  This clunk will be heard in the right side engine case immediately as the engine rotation comes to a stop.
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