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87’ experienced a “Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly” (Read 382 times)
DragBikeMike
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Re: 87’ experienced a “Rapid Unscheduled Disassemb
Reply #15 - 05/10/23 at 03:45:35
 
You should take Dave up on his short block offer.  Your 4-speed trans will bolt right in, plug-n-play.  No need to worry about compatibility.  I've run the 4-speed gearset in my 2016 case, no problem.  Currently running a 4-speed gearset in a 1997 case, good-to-go.  Strictly a bolt in job.

Your current case is destroyed and unsalvageable.  The crank and balance shaft were subjected to a violent collision, I personally would never use those components again.  The rod bearing is almost certainly damaged and I imagine the balance shaft is most likely bent.

You mentioned the pin is gone.  You might wanna verify that.  I check these pins with a gage I made.  It's a very simple device.  It has an aluminum sleeve that sticks out exactly 1/2".  The pin should be below the inner surface of the crank a little less that 1/2", so if the pin is in there the gage will hit the pin.  This is what my gage looks like.  You could just bend a chunk of wire and have an equivalent tool.  Being absolutely certain that your pin is missing will help all of us help you.
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Balancer_Pin_Chkg_Tool__500.jpg

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DragBikeMike
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Re: 87’ experienced a “Rapid Unscheduled Disassemb
Reply #16 - 05/10/23 at 03:47:43
 
You use the tool like this.  If the pin is in there, the tip of the tool will hit the pin.
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Drive_Gear_Pin_Checking_Tool.jpg

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DragBikeMike
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Re: 87’ experienced a “Rapid Unscheduled Disassemb
Reply #17 - 05/10/23 at 03:49:22
 
I'm curious, were you riding the bike when the failure occurred?  If so, was that a scary experience?  Did it oil down the rear tire?
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Re: 87’ experienced a “Rapid Unscheduled Disassemb
Reply #18 - 05/10/23 at 10:31:29
 
That is horrifically impressive. Makes my tank bracket failure look like a paper cut compared to losing a limb.
Best of luck with whatever happens.
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Celeste
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Re: 87’ experienced a “Rapid Unscheduled Disassemb
Reply #19 - 05/10/23 at 19:01:00
 
35MPH, about to pull into a gas station. My not a very nice person definitely puckered up. I felt the bang, saw the metal fly out forward, immediately pulled in the clutch, and shut off the engine. Cruised to a stop and show the damage.

The tire was oiled, but it stayed upright. It’s a challenger.
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73989493-AAB2-40C6-921E-80CDDEF1EFBA.jpeg

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DragBikeMike
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Re: 87’ experienced a “Rapid Unscheduled Disassemb
Reply #20 - 05/11/23 at 12:29:46
 
That sounds like a hair raising experience.  I would really hate to have that happen on the freeway.  It could have hurt you bad.  Glad you didn't hit the pavement.

Sure would be helpful if you could comment on your primary drive nut and also do a conclusive check on the balance drive pin.  The absence of the drive pin sticking out of the crank does not conclusively prove the pin isn't in there.  You need to stick something in the hole and see if the wire or whatever goes in more that 1/2".  That info would help all of us and possibly prevent someone else from having a similar experience.  You had to have removed that nut when you did your timing chain job.  Did you possibly overtighten that nut?  For instance, did you possibly mistake the nut for having normal right-hand threads and try to remove it by turning counter-clockwise? ......or....... Did you use an impact wrench (rattle wrench) on the nut?  Please help us out Celeste.

This is the nut in question.
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Primary_Drive_Nut.jpg

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Celeste
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Re: 87’ experienced a “Rapid Unscheduled Disassemb
Reply #21 - 05/11/23 at 12:43:41
 
Beginning the full tear down right now. Will post video via Google drive to dive into what went wrong.
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Celeste
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Re: 87’ experienced a “Rapid Unscheduled Disassemb
Reply #22 - 05/11/23 at 15:25:24
 
The Tear down has so far not yielded insight into the failure.

As you can see, the Cam Chain and sprocket are intact and still functioning.
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Celeste
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Re: 87’ experienced a “Rapid Unscheduled Disassemb
Reply #23 - 05/11/23 at 15:28:02
 
Digging a little Deeper. The Chain Sprocket shows no sign of failure or fatigue. It is safe to rule out the timing system as the issue.

It should be noted at this time, the piston turns freely and does not hesitate. I am removing the engine out of the frame now and will be updating on findings.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: 87’ experienced a “Rapid Unscheduled Disassemb
Reply #24 - 05/12/23 at 03:05:31
 
Celeste, thanks very much for those photos.  You have a very interesting failure.  First time I have seen one that broke the balancer driven gear.  That gear is broken right in half.  Wow!

It's great that your cam drive sprocket is not fractured, but it's also not so great.  If you had a sprocket failure, at least we would know how to deal with it (i.e. pay attention to properly tightening the primary drive nut).  But if your nut was properly tightened, and the drive pin is still in the drive gear, then what caused that driven gear to fail.

If the driven gear failure is what caused the collision between the balancer and connecting rod, there really is no simple way to monitor things.  To inspect the driven, gear you have to pull the whole engine apart.  It doesn't lend itself to periodic inspection.  There are six springs in that driven gear assembly.  Every other spring should have a pin nested inside the spring.  Those pins are hard stops intended to ensure that the balancer timing does not exceed a predetermined range (so the rod doesn't hit the balance weight).  Are all three pins accounted for?  Is it possible that someone in the past assembled the gear without those stop pins?

What came first, the chicken or the egg.  Did the driven gear fail and result in the collision, or did the drive pin or drive key fail and cause the collision which caused the driven gear failure?

I can see from your picture that the primary drive nut has been beat up pretty good.  Somebody was struggling with that nut to either get it loose or tighten it up.  The sprocket looks OK, but who knows if it was replaced at some point in the past.  Operation with the nut loose or with the sprocket fractured (or both) will work the drive pin loose over time.  

Can't wait to hear and see about your drive pin.  If that drive pin is still in the drive gear, then it kinda looks like the driven gear failed and set the system up for a collision.

Please keep those pictures comin.  I really appreciate you sharing.
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Re: 87’ experienced a “Rapid Unscheduled Disassemb
Reply #25 - 05/12/23 at 04:23:08
 
Celeste,
Bummer about the blow up. So glad you weren’t injured.
Thanks for sharing your info and pics.
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Celeste
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Re: 87’ experienced a “Rapid Unscheduled Disassemb
Reply #26 - 05/12/23 at 08:04:49
 
Mechanic Error? Perhaps.

One thing is unusual.
The Bearing between the crankcase and the counter balance gear was so tight it took two people loosen it.
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Celeste
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Re: 87’ experienced a “Rapid Unscheduled Disassemb
Reply #27 - 05/12/23 at 08:06:39
 
There is friction scoring and heat damage on this side of the bearing. Suggesting it was under tremendous stress and overheating. Is it possible I over tightened the bearing?
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Celeste
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Re: 87’ experienced a “Rapid Unscheduled Disassemb
Reply #28 - 05/12/23 at 08:09:02
 
The counter balance shaft itself is bent  by 5 degrees horizontally and twisted by about 2 degrees. This has to be the original point of failure.
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Celeste
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Re: 87’ experienced a “Rapid Unscheduled Disassemb
Reply #29 - 05/12/23 at 08:10:03
 
Everything else on the crank looks nominal. Slight scoring, but overall looks salvageable.
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