Donate!
Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register :: View Members
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 
Send Topic Print
Cylinder Head Fastener Upgrades (Read 540 times)
Moarpower
Senior Member
****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 331

Re: Cylinder Head Fastener Upgrades
Reply #45 - 03/06/23 at 20:06:59
 
Have to ask. Ive had one of the longer cylinder head bolts stripped when I bought my bike. I uesed a longer bolt.
It was the one to the rear of the engine on the right side. This one also has an oil passage.

Isn't there a risk of drilling through that and getting aluminium into the engine?
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
DragBikeMike
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 4278
Honolulu
Re: Cylinder Head Fastener Upgrades
Reply #46 - 03/06/23 at 23:50:24
 
Ikarus, yes you should have a service manual.  Even for the simplest repairs and maintenance, a service manual is a "must have" tool.

To do the repair I describe, or to install a heli-coil as Dave suggested, you must remove the head cover, camshaft, and cylinder head.  Either repair requires drilling and the metal chips will need to be cleaned out.  In addition, you need to block off the oil passage in the cylinder to keep the chips from goin down the chute.  It's a fair-sized job but well worth the effort.

The heli-coil looks cleaner and maintains the stock design; the through-bolt & nut is stronger.  The heli-coil requires the kit with special tap, drill bit, insertion tool, and inserts; the through-bolt & nut requires the long grade-8 bolt, acorn nut, long 1/4" drill bit, and the valve seat cutting tool.  Either repair is good.  I prefer the through-bolt for the added strength and ease of future repair.

Moarpower, does this reply answer your question.
Back to top
 
 

Knowledge is power.
  IP Logged
Ikarus
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 11

Re: Cylinder Head Fastener Upgrades
Reply #47 - 03/07/23 at 18:51:47
 
Yes it does and thank you so much.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Gus
Senior Member
****
Offline

Thumpers Rock!

Posts: 491
Minnesota
Gender: male
Re: Cylinder Head Fastener Upgrades
Reply #48 - 03/10/23 at 15:04:35
 
There's some serious mecha-nicking going on here! Nice to have all these free design workarounds at our disposal.
Thanks to many of you.
Back to top
 
 

1994 BMW K75S
2011 s40
1979 Honda CT90 Trail
1964 Honda CT200 Trail
One cylinder - one carburetor. Life is good!
Retired/Minnesota
  IP Logged
och
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 619

Re: Cylinder Head Fastener Upgrades
Reply #49 - 08/10/23 at 19:28:15
 
Stripped my 130mm valve cover bolt. There is no way I'm taking this engine apart to fix it, wondering if a 140 or 150mm long bolt would work?
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
DragBikeMike
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 4278
Honolulu
Re: Cylinder Head Fastener Upgrades
Reply #50 - 08/11/23 at 12:47:10
 
You need to take it apart to fix it.
Back to top
 
 

Knowledge is power.
  IP Logged
och
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 619

Re: Cylinder Head Fastener Upgrades
Reply #51 - 08/12/23 at 19:34:20
 
Mike, first I have to say huge thanks to you on doing all the research and posting the information on how to do the bolt upgrades the right way. At the very minimum I will install the exhaust studs since it is so easy to do.

That being said, I hate to beat the dead horse but I am desperately looking for a way around fixing the stripped 130mm bolt hole without taking the head off, I just dont have the time or the knowledge to do it right.

I have just measured the 130mm bolt, and it is actually 128.5mm. I've got a 140mm bolt, and I got it to thread into the hole, however I'm only able to thread in 133mm until it bottoms out, with 7mm remaining. Thus, 133-128.5 = it catches 4.5mm of thread, which might just be enough.

So I am considering my options, out of which there are many.

With the 7mm of the 140mm bolt height remaining I can make a 6mm aluminum spacer with a sealing washer on both ends and bolt it down.

I could also gently drill and tap deeper into the block with the risk of introducing metal shavings into the oil passage - there are probably already some metal shavings from the original damaged thread anyway. I see the hole sleeve within the block is about 140mm long, so I gotta be careful not to drill right through - maybe drill down to 138mm and then tighten the bolt with a smaller spacer and sealing washers.

I could also drill right through and blow out most of metal shavings, tighten the bolt all the way down and use sealer on the bottom of the hole to prevent potential leaks.

I fully realize all of these options are not the right way to do the job, but in a pinch, which is the lesser evil?
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
DragBikeMike
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 4278
Honolulu
Re: Cylinder Head Fastener Upgrades
Reply #52 - 08/13/23 at 19:16:31
 
"Thus, 133-128.5 = it catches 4.5mm of thread, which might just be enough."

You won't have 4.5mm of thread because you can't allow the end of the bolt to bottom in the blind hole.  If you let the bolt bottom you will most certainly jack-out the remaining threads.  So, at best you will have maybe 4.0mm of thread engagement.  That's a steel bolt in aluminum internal threads.

The general rule for thread engagement is a minimum of one bolt diameter.  So, a 6mm bolt needs at least 6mm of thread engagement.  But that general rule assumes external and internal threads of the same material (steel bolt in steel internal threads).  You have aluminum internal threads and I suspect the mechanical properties of that aluminum don't even approach 50% of the grade 10.8 metric flange head bolt.

Your bolt and bolt hole are an integral part of your lubrication system.  This is a bad idea.  You need to take the cylinder head off and fix it correctly.
Back to top
 
 

Knowledge is power.
  IP Logged
och
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 619

Re: Cylinder Head Fastener Upgrades
Reply #53 - 08/15/23 at 18:14:38
 
Mike, against your recommendations, I went and drilled through the block without removing the head, and tapped it right through. I did a thorough job blowing out all the shavings, so in that aspect I think I am ok. I put in a 140mm bolt in there, and its almost flush with the bottom of the hole, i think the sealing washer is keeping it about 1mm higher.

I only ran the bike for a few seconds, and made a humorous video in the link below. I believe the rattle is gone, which is a good thing, but there is a new problem - a tiny drop of oil formed at the bottom of the bolt. I figured this might happen as this bolt is going through an oil passage which is pressurized. I have cleaned around the hole and applied some permatex gasket maker, hoping it will hold up. With roughly 12mm of new thread the new bolt is going through, I don't think there is much pressure left at the end of the bolt. If not, I will use a 150mm bolt with a sealing washer and acorn nut on the bottom.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZaPx5houCE
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
DragBikeMike
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 4278
Honolulu
Re: Cylinder Head Fastener Upgrades
Reply #54 - 08/17/23 at 01:39:26
 
Congratulations.  I guess there's more than one way to skin a cat.  Cool

Keep us posted on how it works out.  This whole mess started with a clutch problem, and then seemed to sort of spiral out of control.  So, how is the clutch working now?
Back to top
 
 

Knowledge is power.
  IP Logged
och
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 619

Re: Cylinder Head Fastener Upgrades
Reply #55 - 08/17/23 at 20:09:55
 
DragBikeMike wrote on 08/17/23 at 01:39:26:
Congratulations.  I guess there's more than one way to skin a cat.  Cool

Keep us posted on how it works out.  This whole mess started with a clutch problem, and then seemed to sort of spiral out of control.  So, how is the clutch working now?



Didn't have the time to even ride it yet, had to go to NC for family business, wont test it until next week.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
och
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 619

Re: Cylinder Head Fastener Upgrades
Reply #56 - 08/27/23 at 16:51:44
 
No updates in a long time, but I havent had the chance to ride the bike until today, and even then I only rode it for about a minute around my block. Here is the good, the bad, and the ugly.

The good is the rattling sound is gone, the engine sounds great, and pulls strong. The clutch is now working properly, no dragging, and neutral is easy to find with the engine on and off, no more sticking when shifting 1-2 and 2-1. The sealed head bolt did not leak, but I'll have to give it a longer ride to be truly sure.

The bad is 10 seconds into the ride I heard a vibrating nose that immediately amplified. This time it was easy to discover - I have replaced my timing inspection port plug with the DRZ plug, for ease if removal in the future as it uses a 10mm allen bolt vs a long flat slot on the stock plug. Turns out the new plug did not come with a gasket, and I forgot to swap in the old one, so the plug immediately loosened up. Very easy fix.




Here comes to ugly. I took off the plug to swap in the gasket, and keep in mind the plug is brand new with only 2 laps around my block. I looked inside the plug and there was a ton of metal shavings in it, and some shavings inside the port hole. I cleaned the shavings, took the bike for one more lap around the block, removed the plug and there were more shavings, but this time a lot less than the first time. I inspected the old plug, and there were no shavings in it whatsoever. There was no shavings inside the port hole when I removed the plug to set the engine to the TDC. Also, when I drained the oil to work on my clutch, I did not see any shavings in it either, therefore these are new shavings that got there within the 1 minute that I was riding the bike around my blocks.

The shavings are probably from me redrilling the head bolt that goes through an oil passage - and therefore I probably deserve what's coming for not taking the advice to do it the right way. I thought I blew most of them out, but I guess not. I'm very surprised how fast they made all over the engine, I imagine if I found them in the port hole, they are probably all over the engine as well. I'm also surprised that these shavings seemed to be dry, not covered in oil - almost if they got blown in there by air. Could they have got there when I was blowing them out with compressed air through the head bolt hole?

That being said, I will keep removing and inspecting the port plug during for the foreseeable future. Would it be a good idea to do a few oil changes with some cheaper oil ever 50 miles or so to try and get the shavings out?





Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
TheSneeze
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline



Posts: 1209
Northern Nevada
Gender: male
Re: Cylinder Head Fastener Upgrades
Reply #57 - 08/27/23 at 21:42:15
 
I think you just created one heck of a problem! IMO that engine is now on borrowed time.  How long it lasts is a crap shoot.  Best of luck...
Back to top
 
 

Every twenty minute job is a stripped thread away from being a three day ordeal.

'87 LS650h Savage Street Tracker
'86 LS650g Savage (parts bike)
'81 Kawasaki KZ750e ELR tribute
  IP Logged
DragBikeMike
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 4278
Honolulu
Re: Cylinder Head Fastener Upgrades
Reply #58 - 08/28/23 at 02:00:02
 
I'm thinkin your alternator rotor bolt is rubbing on that new timing plug.  That assessment is based on the location of the chips, the fact that the chips are dry, and your fuzzy picture.  Can't tell for sure from the pic, but it sure looks like the bolt has been rubbin on the inside of the timing plug.  That plug has raised casting material on the inside face.  As I recall, the stock plug is flat.  Put the two plugs side by side and take a nice clear photo, then post the photo.
Back to top
 
 

Knowledge is power.
  IP Logged
och
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 619

Re: Cylinder Head Fastener Upgrades
Reply #59 - 08/28/23 at 03:47:45
 
I dont know why it did not occur to me, I guess so much frustration with all the issues lately I automatically assume the worst possible scenario. Thank you Mike, I will double check both plugs and if anything I'll machine down the inside of the new plug a bit. This is also how it got loosened up so fast, the engine turns counter clockwise so it caught and turned the plug.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 
Send Topic Print


« Home

 
« Home
SuzukiSavage.com
06/02/24 at 02:21:58



General CategoryRubber Side Down! › Cylinder Head Fastener Upgrades


SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2!
YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved.