Donate!
Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register :: View Members
Pages: 1 2 3 ... 5
Send Topic Print
Evolution of a Hotrod Part 10 - Long Term Test (Read 346 times)
DragBikeMike
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 4216
Honolulu
Evolution of a Hotrod Part 10 - Long Term Test
02/21/22 at 19:13:04
 
This is the tenth in a series of reports intended to document the results of progressive modifications to the LS650 engine.

Part 1 Stock: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1620523526

Part 2 Airbox: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1621150483

Part 3 Exhaust: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1623048749

Part 4 Carburetor: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1625732492

Part 5 Cam: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1626391255

Part 6 Flywheel: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1626921647

Part 7 Head: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1627891507

Part 8 Compression: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1631491370

Part 9 Displacement: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1633054879

You can use this summary to navigate to any particular mods you might be interested in.

What I described in parts 1 through 9 worked good for me.  If you decide to try this stuff on your own, you assume responsibility for the outcome.  If you don’t have the skills, don’t do it.  If you don’t understand something, STOP and get help.  Get a manual.  Read up.  Comply with ALL the safety requirements outlined in the manual.  Make sure you know what you are doing before attempting any of these modifications.  
Back to top
 
 

Knowledge is power.
  IP Logged
DragBikeMike
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 4216
Honolulu
Re: Evolution of a Hotrod Part 10 - Long Term Test
Reply #1 - 02/21/22 at 19:14:55
 
At the conclusion of Part 9, we had a 692cc high compression engine.  It had a high-flow K&N air filter, high-flow 38mm carb, ported head, DR650 cam, high flow exhaust system, and a lightened flywheel.  The Wiseco 97mm flat-top piston increased displacement by 40 ccs, compression by about 3 points (8.5:1 up to 11.4:1) and tightened the quench clearance to .040”.  To hold the power, it needed a beefed-up clutch.  It ran great.  Tons of power, excellent fuel economy, and cooler operating temps.
 
I wanted to put some miles on it before I wrote the final report.  So, once the Big Bore Flat-Top had 6200 miles on it, I changed the oil & filter (3rd oil change), checked chain tensioner extension (14.4 mm), adjusted the valves (.007” as-found), cleaned the air filter, checked compression (225 psi) and started writing.   But something wasn’t right.  After a few miles, the vibration and audible noise seemed higher, the clutch felt like it was slipping, and the oil got black.

When I did the service at 6200 miles, I changed out the oil drain plug.  I had been running the old-style non-magnetic plug.  I had a newer magnetic drain plug, so I installed it.  No particular reason, it just seemed like a good idea.  So now I had like 50 miles or so on a fresh oil charge, and the engine was noisy, and things seemed to be shakin more, and the oil was black already.  Best take a look.

Oh my!  That’s not good.

8/25/23  As it turns out, I believe these chips came from the LH main bearing.  At first I suspected the chips were from the failed 5th gear, but later on I discovered that the main bearing had also failed. I simply missed the bearing failure.  DBM
Back to top
« Last Edit: 08/25/23 at 15:52:40 by DragBikeMike »  

Drain_Plug_Metal_Chips.jpg

Knowledge is power.
  IP Logged
DragBikeMike
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 4216
Honolulu
Re: Evolution of a Hotrod Part 10 - Long Term Test
Reply #2 - 02/21/22 at 19:16:09
 
Where did all those chunks of metal come from?  Would I have found even more chips had I been running the magnetic drain plug all along?  Why the heck was it shakin?  What’s with the clutch?  Why was the oil so black?
 
It seemed prudent to inspect the clutch.  I popped off the clutch cover to check things out.  The clutch was ace.  All the plates (fiber & steel) met new specs.  The springs had the same force as they had when I installed them.  No discoloration.  No signs of overheating.  No scoring.  Release mechanism was fine.

Primary drive gears looked good.  No pitting.  No broken teeth.

Cam chain tensioner was right where I left it, 14.4 mm.

The lions share of the audible noise seemed to be coming from the alternator area.  I removed the alternator cover.  The alternator rotor had black sludge accumulation distributed evenly around the interior of the rotor, and a few metal chips here and there.
Back to top
 

Alt_Rotor_Sludge_Chips.jpg

Knowledge is power.
  IP Logged
DragBikeMike
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 4216
Honolulu
Re: Evolution of a Hotrod Part 10 - Long Term Test
Reply #3 - 02/21/22 at 19:16:55
 
Since it’s magnetic, the sludge was very hard to remove.  Wiping with a towel gathered some nasty black stuff, but I couldn’t get it all.  The magnets refused to let go.
Back to top
 

Magnetic_Sludge.jpg

Knowledge is power.
  IP Logged
DragBikeMike
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 4216
Honolulu
Re: Evolution of a Hotrod Part 10 - Long Term Test
Reply #4 - 02/21/22 at 19:18:26
 
I yanked up & down on the alternator rotor and there was some loud clunking.  I knew the left-hand main bearing was a large roller bearing, but I didn’t think it should have enough clearance to permit that much movement, not enough to clunk.  There’s no spec in the FSM or Clymer’s.
Time for a dial indicator check.  

I removed the rotor and set up an indicator.  I could move the crankshaft up & down about .0035”.  That seemed like a lot.  I checked the same bearing on my spare engine, and it moved .0020”.  It also clunked but not as loud.  So, the left-hand main bearing on the engine in the bike had almost twice as much clearance as the same bearing on the spare engine.
Back to top
 

LHMB_Up_Down.jpg

Knowledge is power.
  IP Logged
DragBikeMike
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 4216
Honolulu
Re: Evolution of a Hotrod Part 10 - Long Term Test
Reply #5 - 02/21/22 at 19:19:44
 
I did a cursory check of left-hand crank runout.  Cursory because it’s almost impossible to get an accurate runout, other things are moving the crank around.  The cam chain is tugging on the right-hand side, and the rod is pushing and pulling on the crank pin.  I figured it wouldn’t hurt to take a runout.  The runout was .0040” TIR.  The runout spec in the manual is .0020” TIR, but that’s checked with the crank assembly on V-blocks.  I set the indicator up to check axial play.  

The crank moved to the right +.0020”.
Back to top
 

Crank_Axial__0020_Pulling.jpg

Knowledge is power.
  IP Logged
DragBikeMike
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 4216
Honolulu
Re: Evolution of a Hotrod Part 10 - Long Term Test
Reply #6 - 02/21/22 at 19:20:20
 
And the crank moved to the left -.0010”.  That’s a total of .0030” axial movement.
Back to top
 

Crank_Axial__0010_Pushing.jpg

Knowledge is power.
  IP Logged
DragBikeMike
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 4216
Honolulu
Re: Evolution of a Hotrod Part 10 - Long Term Test
Reply #7 - 02/21/22 at 19:21:25
 
I checked axial play on the spare engine crank, and it was only .0005”.  That seemed more like it.  The manuals don’t provide a specification for axial play, but .0030” seemed like it was excessive, especially when compared to the spare engine.

I wanted to see how the transmission bearings were, so I checked the input shaft and the output shaft.  The input shaft had .0000” up & down, but .0022” axial play.  The input shaft on the spare was tighter, up & down was the same, but axial was only .0010”.
 
Comparison of the output shafts showed similar results.  The output shaft was .0010” up & down while the spare engine was .0000”.  The axial movement on the output shaft was a whopping .0050” while the spare output axial play was only .0010”.

It was obvious that the engine in the bike was way looser than the spare engine.  I have no idea how many miles are on the spare, or how it was treated before I got my hands on it.  I have only logged about 1500 miles on the spare.  That was on the 97mm Pop-Top project.
Back to top
 
 

Knowledge is power.
  IP Logged
DragBikeMike
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 4216
Honolulu
Re: Evolution of a Hotrod Part 10 - Long Term Test
Reply #8 - 02/21/22 at 19:22:11
 
I removed the drive pulley from the output shaft.  The nut was super-tight.  To my surprise, there was a bright orange layer of corrosion on the splines, typical of fretting corrosion.

Note that only the splines have the red deposits.  There hasn’t been any water on this pulley.  I don’t wash my bike, I wipe it down, and I rarely ride in rain.  When there is inclement weather, the pulley is rotating at high speed.  No water is getting into that joint.  Only the areas subjected to extreme contact pressure have the red rust deposits.  Looks like I caught this in time.
Back to top
 

Splines.jpg

Knowledge is power.
  IP Logged
DragBikeMike
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 4216
Honolulu
Re: Evolution of a Hotrod Part 10 - Long Term Test
Reply #9 - 02/21/22 at 19:22:52
 
Similar deposits were on the output shaft splines.  Don’t worry, I didn’t check axial play with the pulley removed, I just wanted to see if it made a difference.  It does.
Back to top
 

Fretting_Corrosion_Output_Splines.jpg

Knowledge is power.
  IP Logged
DragBikeMike
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 4216
Honolulu
Re: Evolution of a Hotrod Part 10 - Long Term Test
Reply #10 - 02/21/22 at 19:23:49
 
So, I have this noisy/shaky engine full of metal chips.  All the bearings are loose as a goose.  The crank seems to have excessive runout.  The clutch appeared to be slipping and the oil was black, but all the clutch components were within specs.  Hmmmmm?

Could the rod bearing be in the toilet, or the wrist pin, or the piston skirt.  Time to pop the cylinder off.

My beautiful new 97mm flat-top had a gouge in the skirt, and what looked like a chunk of black metal embedded.  The skirt was also peppered with all sorts of dings.
Back to top
 

Piston_Damage.jpg

Knowledge is power.
  IP Logged
DragBikeMike
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 4216
Honolulu
Re: Evolution of a Hotrod Part 10 - Long Term Test
Reply #11 - 02/21/22 at 19:24:27
 
The top ring looked terrible.  I’m used to seeing a nice, uniform polish 360° around.  This thing looked like it had been through a meat grinder.  That might explain why the compression was down about 15 psi.
Back to top
 

Ring_Damage.jpg

Knowledge is power.
  IP Logged
DragBikeMike
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 4216
Honolulu
Re: Evolution of a Hotrod Part 10 - Long Term Test
Reply #12 - 02/21/22 at 19:25:23
 
The 97mm cylinder was toast.  Several deep gouges ran through the lower two-thirds of the bore.  It’s a boat anchor, no more bore jobs on a 97.  Look at the finish on that thing.  It was running perfect until this happened, but what is “this”???  Note that the gouges are confined to the areas in the lower two-thirds of the bore.  I’m thinkin whatever did this came from the crankcase area, not the combustion area.
Back to top
 

Cylinder_Damage.jpg

Knowledge is power.
  IP Logged
DragBikeMike
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 4216
Honolulu
Re: Evolution of a Hotrod Part 10 - Long Term Test
Reply #13 - 02/21/22 at 19:25:57
 
The combustion chamber and piston top looked fine.  It wasn’t detonation.
Back to top
 

Comb_Chamber.jpg

Knowledge is power.
  IP Logged
DragBikeMike
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 4216
Honolulu
Re: Evolution of a Hotrod Part 10 - Long Term Test
Reply #14 - 02/21/22 at 19:26:28
 
The piston top had almost no carbon accumulation, and the little that had accumulated came right off.  Also, no sign of detonation.
Back to top
 

Piston_Top.jpg

Knowledge is power.
  IP Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 ... 5
Send Topic Print


« Home

 
« Home
SuzukiSavage.com
05/12/24 at 20:16:29



General CategoryRubber Side Down! › Evolution of a Hotrod Part 10 - Long Term Test


SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2!
YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved.