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A good clutch diagram? (Read 175 times)
och
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Re: A good clutch diagram?
Reply #15 - 08/12/23 at 11:44:24
 
DragBikeMike wrote on 08/12/23 at 09:51:34:
OCH, fantastic video.  You did a great job on that video.  It should go in the tech section with a title like "Oil Pump Drive Pin - Installation Problem".  One of the moderators should grab that link and put it in the tech section.

Absolutely, this will be a good reference for someone doing their clutch for the first time in the future.


All is not lost.  You have a number of things in your favor.

1.  The heavy wear on the engine case (around the transmission input bearing) shows that the gear was turning.  Based on the amount of wear (sufficient to hold the gear centered around the shaft when you release it) indicates that it was turning a lot and there must have been significant driving force.  The pin might have remained in place for the entire time you ran the engine, or at least most of the time you ran the engine.

Good noticing on the engine case wear, i guess the gear must have been spinning, and since it was on the wrong way it was spinning against the case and not the washer. I doubt the pin was, but I think the gear could've been spinning by centrifugal forces, perhaps not at the full speed.

2.  You removed the head cover, so you know what things look like in there.  I suspect the head assembly would be the first area in the engine that would fail due to low or no oil pressure.  Since you had the head cover off, you know what things look like in there.  As I recall, your valve clearance was normal (always a good sign), but you mentioned that the cam looked unusual.  If you have some pictures, maybe you could post them.  We could help you assess any damage.

The valves were in spec, and the chambers/cavities where the intake valves and camshaft live were full of oil, so I think they are fine. The oil was badly burnt, the darked I've ever seen, but I guess its better than nothing, and I only put on very few miles on the bike. I set the valves dead to .004 just in case, they were at .005" before. I didn't see any damage or excessive wear on the camshaft, but I did notice that it is very cheaply manufactured - the lobes are only polished where they touch against the rockers, the rest of the lobes' width have rough casting remaining, so if the lobe is say 10mm wide only 8mm is polished. I've google photos of Savage camshafts and it seems that they are all like that. I don't think it matters functionally, but it's a sign of extreme cost cutting during manufacturing, correct me if I'm wrong.

3.  The engine was still operational when you started taking it apart, so you don't have any valves stuck open.

Yes, the engine was running strong, just making a rattling noise which prompted me to open it up. I don't know if I have fixed the noise for good as I haven't started the engine yet, first I have to deal with the stropped 130mm head bolt, but I have eliminated several potential sources of the rattle - got the valves adjusted to perfect spec, removed loose chunk of metal out of exhaust (it was left there when I welded on the Dyna muffler), installed the gear and the securing pin correctly, and tightened the clutch basket nut.

4.  Now you know for certain that the mechanic you were using is not a very good mechanic.  It's great that you shared that video with him/her.  It will help the mechanic learn and improve.  I am anxious to hear about the mechanic's response.  Also, curious to hear if the mechanic will reach out to you and try to compensate you for the trouble and damage.  They should at least return every penny of your money.

I spoke to the shop owner but I didn't push too hard. I understand that we are all humans and make mistakes, and his technician that was doing the repair must not have been familiar with the bike as the shop mostly does Harleys, but still it was a bad job on many levels - gear put on wrong, loose pin, loose nut. I got offered a free oil change next time, but I don't know if I trust the shop anymore.

5.  You are learning a whole bunch of stuff, improving your skills, and probably acquiring a bunch of new tools.

Keep at it brother.  Don't give up.


Yep, bought a few new tools, including an impact wrench, and gained quite a bit of experience and learned a thing or two. The biggest thing I learned, for the millionth time, - if you want it done right do it yourself.
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Surviving Philly
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Re: A good clutch diagram?
Reply #16 - 08/12/23 at 22:50:18
 
I'm sorry but that response from the shop is totally inadequate. The incompetency of that tech could have cost you the motor -- as a shade tree, if I can teach myself how to change the clutch on a busy city sidewalk in 90 degree heat with a manual and a phone, that guy can make sure he doesn't brick your bike.

Sorry och that just grinds my gears, you deserve your money back.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: A good clutch diagram?
Reply #17 - 08/13/23 at 19:42:54
 
"The oil was badly burnt, the darked I've ever seen"

I suspect the oil is so dark because of all the aluminum wear products.  The gear plunged into the engine case quite a ways.


"I didn't see any damage or excessive wear on the camshaft, but I did notice that it is very cheaply manufactured - the lobes are only polished where they touch against the rockers, the rest of the lobes' width have rough casting remaining, so if the lobe is say 10mm wide only 8mm is polished. I've google photos of Savage camshafts and it seems that they are all like that. I don't think it matters functionally, but it's a sign of extreme cost cutting during manufacturing, correct me if I'm wrong."

The cam is a typical flame-hardened camshaft.  They do all the machining and grinding and then flame harden the camshaft.  That's why the areas that are not subjected to wear are still black.  Generally, only the bearing journals and nose of each lobe get polished off during operation.


"installed the gear and the securing pin correctly, and tightened the clutch basket nut."

I hope you made sure that all parts are present and accounted for.  There are two thrust washers in the assembly, but you only showed one in your video.  Considering how bad the workmansip was, you should have disassembled the clutch completely and confirmed correct installation of the plates, thrust washers, wave-washer & seat, everything.  The mechanic clearly didn't understand the job.  You now know that, so you can't trust anything that was done by the shop.  You must check every detail.

Also, did you examine the wear on your case and make a determination whether or not it is superficial or has a detrimental impact on the assembly.  I can't tell much from your vid, but it is obvious that there is a lot of wear.


"I got offered a free oil change next time, but I don't know if I trust the shop anymore."

Correct, you can't trust them anymore, not even to change oil.  But every cloud has a silver lining.  You will now become a journeyman LS650 mechanic.  Cool
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DragBikeMike
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Re: A good clutch diagram?
Reply #18 - 08/13/23 at 19:47:31
 
This is a brand-new unused DR650 cam shaft.  Every surface is a dark brown/black color because of the flame hardening process.  Only the parts that are in contact with the bearings or the cam followers will get polished during operation.  The base circle of each cam lobe will remain black because of the valve clearance, but the nose of each lobe will get polished as it pushes on the cam follwer to open the valve.
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och
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Re: A good clutch diagram?
Reply #19 - 08/14/23 at 07:57:33
 
Mike thanks so much for all the help! Hoping to get the bike finished this week - just gotta deal with the stripped head bolt, fill with oil, and then I can finally test ride it. Hopefully its going to be all good now.
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