SuzukiSavage.com - Good Guys With Guns

thumperclone

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Re: Good Guys With Guns
Reply #30 - 11/11/18 at 17:08:26

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 11/11/18 at 16:05:34:

Yeah, that
Nutjobs on the cop force
Question pretty much sunk it for them.
Wadda Dilbert.
Notice how nobody has tried to dissect the points I made?
Just some goalposts moved,,
Keep the people vulnerable.
Don't add guns to the equation
Until you call the cops
Who will Bring GUNS.

No contradictory thought processes there.

your points imply arm everyone
my question still stands who decides who the nut jobs are??
its easy for you to lump me in with others who have different views than you
you've been doing it for over 12 years now when ever your "smarts" evade you
"you are not worth the effort or time it would take"
^ eat your own words^

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Good Guys With Guns Reply #31 - 11/11/18 at 17:27:27 Where did I say Arm everyone? I didn't. You're a Liar.
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justin_o_guy2

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Re: Good Guys With Guns
Reply #32 - 11/12/18 at 12:22:05

thumperclone wrote on 11/11/18 at 09:47:20:

how and who decides the separation between nut jobs and good citizens?
there are nut jobs in the police force

Seen any cops go shoot as many people as possible?
Even IF you are able to show a couple,
The Overwhelming MAJORITY are not crazy.
Gee,
Just
Like
Everyday
PEOPLE..

Say how different from the other lefties you are
But you are unwilling to see how wrong you are.

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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.

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T And T Garage Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 9839	Re: Good Guys With Guns Reply #33 - 11/12/18 at 14:01:47 Yeah, more guns is the answer.....<<<<<sarcasm http://huffp.st/iI9cYw8
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eau de sauvage

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Re: Good Guys With Guns
Reply #34 - 11/12/18 at 18:13:25

Australia who have the dubious record of the largest single shooter mass killing. In 1995 Bryant shot and killed 35 people.

There was an instantaneous response from the government and the result is palpable. 42% decrease in gun deaths.

https://cdn1.sph.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/1264/2012/10/bulletins_...

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/11/11/18084486/thousand-oaks-gun...

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Good Guys With Guns Reply #35 - 11/13/18 at 00:15:49 We aren't Australia. And I honestly couldn't care less about how anyone else deals with guns and idiots. The complaint is Americans say Yes, there is a problem And nothing can be done about it. Only lefties and fools believe that. It's an obvious and simple solution. Encourage more people to carry. Arm teachers.
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T And T Garage

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Re: Good Guys With Guns
Reply #36 - 11/13/18 at 06:34:27

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 11/13/18 at 00:15:49:

We aren't Australia.
And I honestly couldn't care less about how anyone else deals with guns and idiots.
The complaint is
Americans say
Yes, there is a problem
And nothing can be done about it.
Only lefties and fools believe that.
It's an obvious and simple solution.
Encourage more people to carry.
Arm teachers.

You are unintentionally hilarious jog.

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Eegore

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Re: Good Guys With Guns
Reply #37 - 11/13/18 at 06:35:07

"It's an obvious and simple solution."

I'm not sure its simple, legally arming teachers in some states is not easily done. Creating the tax structure to pay for the hundreds of thousands of rounds of ammunition annually, training centers and safety protocols will take time. Some states have the ability to allow certain teachers to carry firearms and amounts to less than one percent of total faculty, making the programs usefulness very limited.

If we are going to embrace mass distribution of firearms we need programs similar to military or organized law enforcement training and logistics.

Just saying carry moar gunz does't change the complexity of mass firearm distribution, safety and training.

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Eegore

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Re: Good Guys With Guns
Reply #38 - 11/13/18 at 06:54:47

A national Permit to purchase.

I'd be interested in hearing more about how this works.

Tort reform aimed at unsafe manufacturers.

If someone uses a Colt brand firearm in a gang shooting is Colt an unsafe manufacturer? How does manufacturing apply to firearm usage, for instance when Ford recalls a vehicle its a manufacturing defect, but if a guy mows down 800 children with a Ford they can not recall that model for defect.

Federally enforced denial criteria to include violent misdemeanors - closing any local/state loopholes

I think a similar standard should take effect, but enforcing it would be a challenge. The manpower for auditing alone would be in the millions of dollars.

"I mean, are you really that paranoid that you're going to face someone in your own home that wants to kill you? What kind of person are you? Where the hell do you live? In a country of 300 million people, how many are being killed in their homes by guns from a home invasion scenario?"

It depends on ones line of work I guess. For instance I don't feel paranoid of a home invasion, but if I have the option to protect myself I will do so to the best of my ability and not rely on someone else to do it for me. Kind of how I like to make my money. In a 1 mile radius around my home in town in 2018 there were 6 home invasions, one murder in the home (beat to death with a hammer) 4 stolen vehicles, 9 arrests and I live in a normal lower crime area.

To say having a gun for personal protection is paranoia and also saying we need to look at ways to lower gun violence is an interesting stance. One is acknowledging that gun violence is on the rise and dangerous all while saying that considering protection is paranoid. Its like saying that locking your vehicle doors is paranoid because there's millions and millions of cars that will never get broken into.

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Re: Good Guys With Guns
Reply #39 - 11/13/18 at 08:45:51

Tort reform aimed at unsafe manufacturers. Any judge seriously considering this should be disbarred.

National Permit. Given Obama's use of the IRS as a political tool, the idea of a national permitting database is a scary prospect. There's no way it wouldn't be abused. Remember, SS#'s were originally for one thing, tracking earnings history. But now, they are defacto national ID#. I decline to give mine for anything except SS business. For a long time, Missouri has SS # as DL#, but that's been changed. Absolute certainty a national permit database would be abused.

If you want to really analyze gun crimes, begin separating by perpetrators with previous arrests and convictions of violent crimes. The idea is to find a way to not include gang bangers and other criminals shooting each other. Let's admit what we all know. In St Louis for example, if I remove 3 or so zip codes from the crime stats, we might be as safe as a gunless England. Most violent gun crime is situated in a couple areas of any major metropolitan areas. Trying to find a solution that works for those areas, the type of area where I live and rural areas is probably not possible.

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T And T Garage

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Re: Good Guys With Guns
Reply #40 - 11/13/18 at 09:26:29

Eegore wrote on 11/13/18 at 06:54:47:

A national Permit to purchase.

I'd be interested in hearing more about how this works.

Tort reform aimed at unsafe manufacturers.

If someone uses a Colt brand firearm in a gang shooting is Colt an unsafe manufacturer? How does manufacturing apply to firearm usage, for instance when Ford recalls a vehicle its a manufacturing defect, but if a guy mows down 800 children with a Ford they can not recall that model for defect.

That's not really the intent. The manufacturers that sell indiscriminately are more the target.

Federally enforced denial criteria to include violent misdemeanors - closing any local/state loopholes

I think a similar standard should take effect, but enforcing it would be a challenge. The manpower for auditing alone would be in the millions of dollars.

"I mean, are you really that paranoid that you're going to face someone in your own home that wants to kill you? What kind of person are you? Where the hell do you live? In a country of 300 million people, how many are being killed in their homes by guns from a home invasion scenario?"

It depends on ones line of work I guess. For instance I don't feel paranoid of a home invasion, but if I have the option to protect myself I will do so to the best of my ability and not rely on someone else to do it for me. Kind of how I like to make my money. In a 1 mile radius around my home in town in 2018 there were 6 home invasions, one murder in the home (beat to death with a hammer) 4 stolen vehicles, 9 arrests and I live in a normal lower crime area.

I'd have to disagree with that, given what you just stated.

To say having a gun for personal protection is paranoia and also saying we need to look at ways to lower gun violence is an interesting stance. One is acknowledging that gun violence is on the rise and dangerous all while saying that considering protection is paranoid. Its like saying that locking your vehicle doors is paranoid because there's millions and millions of cars that will never get broken into.

Somewhat true I suppose. However, one is precautionary and the other is reactionary in that you physically have to wield a gun at a perpetrator and pull a trigger. Locking a car or a house is far less confrontational and takes practically zero effort.

Suffice it to say, there should be more responsibility on the gun owner or potential gun owner at the federal level.

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Re: Good Guys With Guns
Reply #41 - 11/13/18 at 10:34:10

T And T Garage wrote on 11/13/18 at 09:26:29:

Eegore wrote on 11/13/18 at 06:54:47:

A national Permit to purchase.

I'd be interested in hearing more about how this works.

Tort reform aimed at unsafe manufacturers.

If someone uses a Colt brand firearm in a gang shooting is Colt an unsafe manufacturer? How does manufacturing apply to firearm usage, for instance when Ford recalls a vehicle its a manufacturing defect, but if a guy mows down 800 children with a Ford they can not recall that model for defect.

That's not really the intent. The manufacturers that sell indiscriminately are more the target.
Mfr's sell to licensed distributors, so how is that indiscriminate?
Furthermore, equating a vehicle mfg defect with illegal use is a poor analogy.

Federally enforced denial criteria to include violent misdemeanors - closing any local/state loopholes

I think a similar standard should take effect, but enforcing it would be a challenge. The manpower for auditing alone would be in the millions of dollars.

"I mean, are you really that paranoid that you're going to face someone in your own home that wants to kill you? What kind of person are you? Where the hell do you live? In a country of 300 million people, how many are being killed in their homes by guns from a home invasion scenario?"

It depends on ones line of work I guess. For instance I don't feel paranoid of a home invasion, but if I have the option to protect myself I will do so to the best of my ability and not rely on someone else to do it for me. Kind of how I like to make my money. In a 1 mile radius around my home in town in 2018 there were 6 home invasions, one murder in the home (beat to death with a hammer) 4 stolen vehicles, 9 arrests and I live in a normal lower crime area.

I'd have to disagree with that, given what you just stated.

exactly what are you disagreeing with?
To say having a gun for personal protection is paranoia and also saying we need to look at ways to lower gun violence is an interesting stance. One is acknowledging that gun violence is on the rise and dangerous all while saying that considering protection is paranoid. Its like saying that locking your vehicle doors is paranoid because there's millions and millions of cars that will never get broken into.

Somewhat true I suppose. However, one is precautionary and the other is reactionary in that you physically have to wield a gun at a perpetrator and pull a trigger. Locking a car or a house is far less confrontational and takes practically zero effort.

Suffice it to say, there should be more responsibility on the gun owner or potential gun owner at the federal level.

Again poor analogy, having a lock on your house/car would equate to carrying or even pointing a gun at a perp. Having dogs or a trunk money chase down a perp would equate to using a gun.

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T And T Garage

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Re: Good Guys With Guns
Reply #42 - 11/13/18 at 11:11:38

verslagen1 wrote on 11/13/18 at 10:34:10:

T And T Garage wrote on 11/13/18 at 09:26:29:

Eegore wrote on 11/13/18 at 06:54:47:

A national Permit to purchase.

I'd be interested in hearing more about how this works.

Tort reform aimed at unsafe manufacturers.

If someone uses a Colt brand firearm in a gang shooting is Colt an unsafe manufacturer? How does manufacturing apply to firearm usage, for instance when Ford recalls a vehicle its a manufacturing defect, but if a guy mows down 800 children with a Ford they can not recall that model for defect.

That's not really the intent. The manufacturers that sell indiscriminately are more the target.
Mfr's sell to licensed distributors, so how is that indiscriminate?
Furthermore, equating a vehicle mfg defect with illegal use is a poor analogy.

Federally enforced denial criteria to include violent misdemeanors - closing any local/state loopholes

I think a similar standard should take effect, but enforcing it would be a challenge. The manpower for auditing alone would be in the millions of dollars.

"I mean, are you really that paranoid that you're going to face someone in your own home that wants to kill you? What kind of person are you? Where the hell do you live? In a country of 300 million people, how many are being killed in their homes by guns from a home invasion scenario?"

It depends on ones line of work I guess. For instance I don't feel paranoid of a home invasion, but if I have the option to protect myself I will do so to the best of my ability and not rely on someone else to do it for me. Kind of how I like to make my money. In a 1 mile radius around my home in town in 2018 there were 6 home invasions, one murder in the home (beat to death with a hammer) 4 stolen vehicles, 9 arrests and I live in a normal lower crime area.

I'd have to disagree with that, given what you just stated.

exactly what are you disagreeing with?

I'm disagreeing with the statement "...and I live in a normal lower crime area."

To say having a gun for personal protection is paranoia and also saying we need to look at ways to lower gun violence is an interesting stance. One is acknowledging that gun violence is on the rise and dangerous all while saying that considering protection is paranoid. Its like saying that locking your vehicle doors is paranoid because there's millions and millions of cars that will never get broken into.

Somewhat true I suppose. However, one is precautionary and the other is reactionary in that you physically have to wield a gun at a perpetrator and pull a trigger. Locking a car or a house is far less confrontational and takes practically zero effort.

Suffice it to say, there should be more responsibility on the gun owner or potential gun owner at the federal level.

Again poor analogy, having a lock on your house/car would equate to carrying or even pointing a gun at a perp. Having dogs or a trunk money chase down a perp would equate to using a gun.

My locking a door has never killed anyone.

Huge difference.

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Eegore

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Re: Good Guys With Guns
Reply #43 - 11/13/18 at 15:17:09

"My locking a door has never killed anyone."

My owning a gun has never killed anyone either. If I have the option to lock my doors to my house I do, its safer, does that make me paranoid?

If I have the option to install a pull rod iron security door I do, its safer, does installing a security door make me paranoid?

If I can install a security camera doorbell and a home alarm I do, its safer, does having a camera and security system make me paranoid?

If I can own a firearm and also use that firearm when not hunting to aid in home defense I do, its safer, does owning a gun and using it for home defense make me paranoid?

At what point are we crossing the line to mental illness?

As for the attack dog and trunk monkey chasing somebody running away then that's still illegal. Shooting someone with a hammer intent on crushing my skull like the guy down the street from me is not illegal. I certainly don't plan on using my own hammer in a duel waiting for law enforcement to arrive and save my life for me.

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Serowbot YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline OK.... so what's the speed of dark? Posts: 28381 Tucson Az Gender:	Re: Good Guys With Guns Reply #44 - 11/13/18 at 15:31:34 If a shooting happens in a theatre, and there are eight armed guys,... seven will be dead before the shooting stops. At least...
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