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WTF is WRONG with people? (Read 488 times)
WebsterMark
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Re: WTF is WRONG with people?
Reply #75 - 10/29/18 at 13:07:17
 
absolutely, I agree.

My company has location in Puerto Rico. They sell a bunch of product to pharmaceutical companies in PR and DR. Anything in Haiti? Nope. As Trump said, its a $hithole.
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Re: WTF is WRONG with people?
Reply #76 - 10/29/18 at 13:46:51
 
I feel the answer in right in front of us, yet passed.....

Not sure if I can advance my thoughts in a manner that represents anything remotely coherent in nature....
But I’ll try.

Religion fails, with me being more familiar with the Judeo-Christian perspectives, is because folks to not adhere to its basic principles.
It is not about the biggest church, organization, enfluncing, sway...no.
And this I believe is why religion is under a perceived assault.

Folks use their beliefs/religion, to govern and promote policies....
The very element our founders escaped from, and tried to write into our system of governance, to avoid that pitfall.

Faith/belief, is a internal journey, that if used in the manner intended, your witness will be the cause in effect that invite others to investigate, join, in that understanding.
It’s not self promotion, no, but self awareness with all our inherent faults and failings.....
Using any religious doctrine to judge others, is asking for failure when those who preach it, don’t adhere to it themselves.

You have just as much sin in the church, as you do out of the church, yet, so many in the congregation look past themselves, while faulting others who don’t proclaim their same faith....

Well golly gee....
Sounds like a parent who doesn’t work, drinks to excess, smokes, swears, while threatening his children with punishment if they do the same.....

These folks have turned off folks to “God”.

Is it any reason it seems false, a lie, hypocrisy?

Then on the opposite spectrum, you have the “anti-religion” who want to force ANY religion out of society....
Preaching tolerance while promoting laws against expression, with adherence to their “moral” standards of equality as long as it’s the same as theirs....

But again, their power, or sway would be a non enitity IF folks used their religion to be a better person THEMSELVES, instead of trying to force it on others....

So much of what is happening around us is because we try and control it, when in all truth, we can’t even control ourselves.

I will use a current event as example.
Who, that has offered ANY advice, or critique, of the caravan coming up Mexico to the USA, leveling charges either way, of the handling, etc, has ever, sent money to organization that can help these folks so they would never have to do this in the first place?

So much of life is spent reacting, only because we didn’t ACT, when we could have made a difference.
But again, when it’s all about us, our own welfare, beliefs, etc, first....
Then what right do we have to deman anything, from anyone else?
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“The biggest big business in America is not steel, automobiles, or television. It is the manufacture, refinement and distribution of anxiety.”—Eric Sevareid (1964)
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Re: WTF is WRONG with people?
Reply #77 - 10/30/18 at 05:26:00
 

"I don't buy the natural resource angle. The geographical landscape of the US is no more or less than that of continental Europe. Africa is likely the most blessed continent as far as natural resources goes, but most of it is a giant $hithole for humanity. Unless you're comparing Antarctica, natural resources isn't a factor."


 Interesting outlook.  I think the ability to acquire food, a natural resource, is applicable to the growth and expansion of human culture.  Agriculture in early Egypt developing irrigation is an example.  Mexico is almost exclusively Christian/Catholic and their economic situation isn't anything close development wise to Europe's Christian economic development.  To say that in the time of Age of Discovery that food acquisition had zero bearing on human growth seems a bit of a stretch..  
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WebsterMark
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Re: WTF is WRONG with people?
Reply #78 - 10/30/18 at 05:56:03
 
Then why didn't Egypt develop into the powerhouse that Great Britain did?

Society is complex and and when looking at ancient societies, we're nothing but detectives trying to piece together a narrative based on clues in this case thousands of years old. It could have been a very simple singular event that caused one society to dominate or it could have been a series of unique events that could never again be duplicated.

My thought is Christianity played a major role because religion was far more vital to every day life back then and the society that dominated was christian based so I see that as more than a coincidence.
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Re: WTF is WRONG with people?
Reply #79 - 10/30/18 at 06:59:57
 
"Then why didn't Egypt develop into the powerhouse that Great Britain did?"

 I'd say its a balance of economic and natural resource, technology, social structure, weather patterns and geographical location.  I believe if Egypt was primarily Christian that they would have had similar results based off of a comprehensive view, especially not removing the availability of water, or food, all natural resources.  I'm not sure why natural resources should be completely removed from assessing any cultures ability to provide, and expand.

 By your assessment method if Egypt was geographically void of a fresh water supply, but Christian, they would have been capable of expanding as Great Britain did, considerably earlier in time (3050 - 30 BC compared to 1490–1522) because natural resources aren't part of the equation for geographical and societal expansion and influence.  Or am I not understanding you correctly?


 
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Re: WTF is WRONG with people?
Reply #80 - 10/30/18 at 07:05:21
 

"Who, that has offered ANY advice, or critique, of the caravan coming up Mexico to the USA, leveling charges either way, of the handling, etc, has ever, sent money to organization that can help these folks so they would never have to do this in the first place?"


 This is probably the only question that will get any results.
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WebsterMark
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Re: WTF is WRONG with people?
Reply #81 - 10/30/18 at 07:14:47
 
Eegore wrote on 10/30/18 at 07:05:21:

"Who, that has offered ANY advice, or critique, of the caravan coming up Mexico to the USA, leveling charges either way, of the handling, etc, has ever, sent money to organization that can help these folks so they would never have to do this in the first place?"


 This is probably the only question that will get any results.  


Countless number of charitable organizations as well as government funds. Clearly, that's not having any effect. Corruptions is ingrained in those cultures making economic progress difficult if not impossible.
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WebsterMark
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Re: WTF is WRONG with people?
Reply #82 - 10/30/18 at 07:21:49
 
Eegore wrote on 10/30/18 at 06:59:57:
"Then why didn't Egypt develop into the powerhouse that Great Britain did?"

 I'd say its a balance of economic and natural resource, technology, social structure, weather patterns and geographical location.  I believe if Egypt was primarily Christian that they would have had similar results based off of a comprehensive view, especially not removing the availability of water, or food, all natural resources.  I'm not sure why natural resources should be completely removed from assessing any cultures ability to provide, and expand.

 By your assessment method if Egypt was geographically void of a fresh water supply, but Christian, they would have been capable of expanding as Great Britain did, considerably earlier in time (3050 - 30 BC compared to 1490–1522) because natural resources aren't part of the equation for geographical and societal expansion and influence.  Or am I not understanding you correctly?

 


I'm saying every geographical area has its positives and negatives. You can't squeeze water out of a turnip and you can't get water out of a desert. But you can develop trade with neighboring nations assuming there is a level of trust.

As I said, I'm not sure why, but I think Christianity played a major role because it's just too coincidental that the nations that prospered the greatest during the world's fastest industrial growth had Christianity as their dominant religion.

Look at it this way, if human civilizations has been around 200-300,000 years, it's only been in the last couple hundred years where technology took a gigantic leap forward. For 99% of human history, we were barely above stone age when all of a sudden, boom! And that boom took place mostly in Christian nations. Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not.
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Re: WTF is WRONG with people?
Reply #83 - 10/30/18 at 07:48:58
 
Eegore wrote on 10/30/18 at 07:05:21:

"Who, that has offered ANY advice, or critique, of the caravan coming up Mexico to the USA, leveling charges either way, of the handling, etc, has ever, sent money to organization that can help these folks so they would never have to do this in the first place?"


 This is probably the only question that will get any results.  


[color=#0000ff]I do, My church and I go there all the time. Honduras, Nicaragua and Guatemala. I have personally made 16 week long trips over the last 8 years, my dime, my vacation time. We build homes, churches, medical centers. We feed the the children and educate them. We teach English as a second language.

Look guys, I am not telling you this to pat myself on the back. I am telling you so that you Maybe, just Maybe will stop pointing fingers and actually DO SOMETHING. I even offered recently on this Forum to take anyone that wants to go but have not gotten any replies. I don't care if you are Left or Right. But you know what? Talk is cheap. When you want to sit back and ask why God is not doing anything remember this. He did do something. He created YOU.

Here is the problem with the caravan. It does nothing but raise animosity against their own. The people in the caravans are the ones health enough to get here, they are the strong and they are able bodied. All those that really NEED your help are still there. The cost in the USA to support these few would take care of 100,000 if they stayed where they are at. These strong and able bodied people should be staying and helping the needy there instead of fleeing. They are not being killed.

I am going to make a shameless pitch here but if you REALLY care about the people down there go to Chosen Children's Ministries web site and at least donate. You will never spend your money more wisely.

One of the places we work at in Managua is the city Landfill. People live there, especially children. They sleep under boxes, they eat what they can find. We take them food and the Gospel. Food for the soul and the Gospel for the hope that someday they will find justice and not be forgotten. On one particular trip I met a woman and her three children. Her husband died and they had no family. There is NO GOVERNMENT HELP in Nicaragua so they live in the Landfill. The youngest was a little 4 year old girl that I wanted to stuff in my suitcase. We tried to get the government to let us build a home with showers and all out on the property but they will not allow it.

Everyone on this site is RICH, just because you have a computer and internet service. I personally am not going to sit around, complain, and wait for someone else to do anything. I am doing what I can today. Our next trip is in February if anyone is interested.

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Re: WTF is WRONG with people?
Reply #84 - 10/30/18 at 07:53:20
 
Then why didn't Egypt develop into the powerhouse that Great Britain did?


Then why didn't Africa develop into the powerhouse that Great Britain did?

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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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Re: WTF is WRONG with people?
Reply #85 - 10/30/18 at 08:33:08
 
Then why didn't Egypt develop into the powerhouse that Great Britain did?


Then why didn't Africa develop into the powerhouse that Great Britain did?



 Do you mean at the same times?  Egypt was a powerhouse, Britain wasn't even close, at the time.  

 If China is an economic powerhouse in 2000 years is it a fair comparison to completely discount the Industrial Revolution and just say China had a better religion?

 All I am saying is that I don't think religion is exclusively the reason why a society expands.  Saying natural resources, like food, isn't relevant to calculating a societies ability to expand seems odd to me, I mean how did they feed those people?
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Re: WTF is WRONG with people?
Reply #86 - 10/30/18 at 08:43:20
 
Not developing into a
Powerhouse
Isn't a condemnation of a society.
Motive, reason for living, determine goals. Without goals, it's unimportant to determine ability.
Without ability
Goals become irrelevant.
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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Re: WTF is WRONG with people?
Reply #87 - 10/30/18 at 08:50:48
 

 I wasn't condemning any society, I was stating that I thought a multitude of components come into play when assessing the expansion of a society over a specific time frame, not exclusively religion.  I've not seen a situation where a religion can feed an army, or sailing expedition from a region that does not have the natural resources to provide that food, even if that religion was different, or non-existent.
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Re: WTF is WRONG with people?
Reply #88 - 10/30/18 at 09:05:31
 
I didn't say you were.
OP asked a question.
Why is becoming a military powerhouse somehow equivalent to greatness?
Power might be a Greatness
But is that THE measure?
What about some of the American Indian tribes? Were their desires for understanding not great?
What's greatness? Industrialization?
Where are the skyscrapers of Africa?
Weren't there people there long ago?
Where is the African in the history of industrialized countries? What does that say?
There are so many possible answers that it would make a P.H.D. dissertation to even hope to address them.
Interests and goals are based on what people want and what they believe is possible.
Not everyone Wants a battleship.
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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Re: WTF is WRONG with people?
Reply #89 - 10/30/18 at 09:15:03
 

 I want a battleship.
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