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Trump: A dangerous creep... (Read 251 times)
Serowbot
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OK.... so what's the
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Re: Trump: A dangerous creep...
Reply #30 - 12/04/17 at 06:57:42
 
Does anybody really believe his lawyer wrote that tweet?...
Jeeeeeeeeez.... Roll Eyes
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Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
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Trippah
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Re: Trump: A dangerous creep...
Reply #31 - 12/04/17 at 09:01:02
 
Hey, for a few million more, to fall on the sword for the great one...porque no?
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Re: Trump: A dangerous creep...
Reply #32 - 12/04/17 at 09:43:37
 
Donny boy using the ole twitter excuse "but my account was hacked" lol doesnt excuse obstruction of justice and the presidents tweets are official statements of the president by law, so that lawyer is admitting to impersonation of a president lollll. no matter how you slice it, this was a bigly mistake, also no one with half a brain is buying that horsecrap maybe except Trump's brain dead followers
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Re: Trump: A dangerous creep...
Reply #33 - 12/04/17 at 11:44:38
 
Everyone - just go back and look at tweety's interview with Lester Holt!

He admitted to obstruction.  Plain and simple.

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Re: Trump: A dangerous creep...
Reply #34 - 12/04/17 at 14:02:19
 
Presidents “can’t “ obstruct justice. Because they can pardon anyone at anytime and as head of the Justice Department, he can direct prosecutors to pursue or stop any investigation. Of all citizens, the President is unique in this regard.

However, he can be impeached if Congress is inclined to do so.
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Re: Trump: A dangerous creep...
Reply #35 - 12/04/17 at 14:24:01
 
WebsterMark wrote on 12/04/17 at 14:02:19:
Presidents “can’t “ obstruct justice. Because they can pardon anyone at anytime and as head of the Justice Department, he can direct prosecutors to pursue or stop any investigation. Of all citizens, the President is unique in this regard.

However, he can be impeached if Congress is inclined to do so.


Yeah, just like Clinton was.

This will become a mere formality (after the corporate tax cut passes).  Tricky dicky resigned for less....
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Re: Trump: A dangerous creep...
Reply #36 - 12/04/17 at 15:20:54
 
WebsterMark wrote on 12/04/17 at 14:02:19:
...he can direct prosecutors to pursue or stop any investigation..

However, he can be impeached if Congress is inclined to do so.


That's not true, while it is true that he can direct investigators to stop any investigation, it nevertheless remains illegal if the purpose of that direction was specifically to 'obstruct' justice. Also don't forget impeachment doesn't in itself remove the president.
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Re: Trump: A dangerous creep...
Reply #37 - 12/04/17 at 15:26:46
 
Lawfareblog is a great place to get a more legal take on various shenanigans...

https://www.lawfareblog.com/flynns-plea-and-significance-lying-russia-investi...
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Re: Trump: A dangerous creep...
Reply #38 - 12/04/17 at 15:41:34
 
[color=#666666]Serowbot wrote on 12/04/17 at 06:57:42:
Does anybody really believe his lawyer wrote that tweet?...
Jeeeeeeeeez.... Roll Eyes

[/color]

Ha, yes it is entirely plausible that his lawyers who have been begging him to not say anything on Twitter about any legal matters would write a tweet for him that implicates him obstruction.
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Re: Trump: A dangerous creep...
Reply #39 - 12/04/17 at 19:28:34
 
WebsterMark wrote on 12/04/17 at 14:02:19:
Presidents “can’t “ obstruct justice. Because they can pardon anyone at anytime and as head of the Justice Department, he can direct prosecutors to pursue or stop any investigation. Of all citizens, the President is unique in this regard.

However, he can be impeached if Congress is inclined to do so.




Hey webster mark let me just stop you right there

"In 1999, Sessions – then an Alabama senator – laid out an impassioned case for President Bill Clinton to be removed from office based on the argument that Clinton obstructed justice amid the investigation into his affair with White House intern Monica Lewinsky."

“The facts are disturbing and compelling on the President's intent to obstruct justice,” he said, according to remarks in the congressional record.

"In all, 17 sitting senators supported the obstruction of justice charge against Clinton in 1998 and 1999."

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/04/jeff-sessions-president-obstruct-ju...


The current attorney general and 17 sitting senators are on the record saying a president can and has obstructed justice. Soooo what were you saying again??  No one is above the law sit down please.


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WebsterMark
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Re: Trump: A dangerous creep...
Reply #40 - 12/04/17 at 19:34:37
 
T And T Garage wrote on 12/04/17 at 14:24:01:
WebsterMark wrote on 12/04/17 at 14:02:19:
Presidents “can’t “ obstruct justice. Because they can pardon anyone at anytime and as head of the Justice Department, he can direct prosecutors to pursue or stop any investigation. Of all citizens, the President is unique in this regard.

However, he can be impeached if Congress is inclined to do so.


Yeah, just like Clinton was.

This will become a mere formality (after the corporate tax cut passes).  Tricky dicky resigned for less....


As you have often done before, your ignorance is proving my point. Nixon resigned rather than face an impeachment vote by the House.  He likely would have been impeached but he left before the vote was taken.  He was not indicted nor could he have been indicted for obstruction of justice because he could have / would have fired all the prosecutors involved.

With the full and uncontested  Powers of Pardon available to the Presidency, it is impossible to convict the president of obstruction which is why we have impeachment clauses. The president is the chief law-enforcement officer. He can direct the actions of anyone subordinate to him which, by definition, is everyone in the Justice Department.

But you can't have a President running around breaking laws and doing whatever he wishes.  The founding fathers gave the Presidency King-like powers but only up to a certain point. This was a major dividing line between what had been done in the past and what this Republic was supposed to stand for. It's one of the reasons why George Washington is one of the greatest Presidents because he refused the Kingship powers some offered him after his terms.

Honestly, am I the only one whose heard of The Federalist Papers, had a constitutional law class or read history? Are all you leftist educated on MTV, Jimmy Kimmel and Stephen Colbert?
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Re: Trump: A dangerous creep...
Reply #41 - 12/05/17 at 03:14:39
 
@WM
As you have often done before, your ignorance is proving my point.

Hang on did you seriously mean to say that the president 'cannot' be charged with obstruction of justice as  it's technically not possible? Or are you saying something else.
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Re: Trump: A dangerous creep...
Reply #42 - 12/05/17 at 03:57:39
 
Yes, from a both a practical and legal point view, everything I've read recently and in the past says a President cannot obstruct justice. The only things I've read that argue against that fact,  foolishly (like ruckus did above) confuse the political proceedings of impeachment with a law enforcement action. They are not the same.

Trump can direct that Mueller be fired (I read somewhere that for some legal reason, Trump can't fire Mueller himself, but other officials could so it doesn't really matter from a practical point of view)  and Trump could pardon Flynn today if he wanted and end this witch-hunt.

If Trump or any President did obstruct, which I don't believe he did, but even if he did, he cannot be criminally charged with obstruction. 1-its never been tested and 2- he could go down the line and fire every prosecutor who attempted to indict him 3- he could pardon any witness and it's arguable he could even pardon himself.

He won't (probably won't anyway, who knows with Trump) because that would almost certainly bring impeachment proceedings which is the only remedy against a sitting President for obstruction of justice. That is a political remedy, not a law enforcement remedy. He'll face no threat of incarceration or civil actions against him for obstruction.

So yes, ,the President of the United States is in fact, above some of the laws you and I are bound to. If you think it through, it makes sense.

But don't get hung up on it, it's really a non-issue. There are safeguards against actions that would seriously and/or permanently damage the nation.  Impeachment is the remedy after the fact, the Electoral College after the election and before inauguration and the campaign cycle before that.
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Re: Trump: A dangerous creep...
Reply #43 - 12/05/17 at 04:20:09
 
@WB,

https://www.justsecurity.org/47662/trumps-lawyer-wrong-obstruction-justice/

I guess we'll all just have to wait and see how this pans out.
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Re: Trump: A dangerous creep...
Reply #44 - 12/05/17 at 04:31:28
 
Again, another partisan article that purposely blurs the line between law enforcement actions and impeachment.

This is not a 'we'll just have to agree to disagree' issues. There is no grey area here unless you do what you've and others have done which is to lump impeachment in with the same legal jeopardy you and I face.

A sitting President cannot be legally indicted and charged with obstruction of justice.
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