SuzukiSavage.com - Mann Down!

T And T Garage

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Re: Mann Down!
Reply #75 - 07/11/17 at 10:35:02

WebsterMark wrote on 07/11/17 at 10:01:34:

T And T Garage wrote on 07/11/17 at 08:28:07:

WebsterMark wrote on 07/11/17 at 07:54:03:

There's another aspect to this climate change BS.

20% of the world doesn't have regular access to electricity. that's 1.2 billion.

Cutting fossil fuel emissions means relegating them to poverty. This is the anti-human aspect of environmentalism. Sending money to build a pedal powered pump for a poor African village instead of a looking for a way to provide affordable, reliable electricity is nothing short of evil. Wind and solar might be fine for you because no matter what, you've go the grid to back you up, keep your hospitals open, keep your refrigerator with medicine cold.... But that's not good enough if it's your only source.

"I've got my prosperity, to hell with you" is what you're really saying by following though with the ramifications of lowering emissions.

LOL - this whole time, I've been talking about the US and industrialized countries... as have pretty much everyone else.

Talk about a strawman - nice example!

Eye on the ball, huh?

I don't think you're grasping the big picture. Pursing CO2 emission reductions in prosperous nations will condemn millions to poverty. China, India will build coal plants, they can afford it. Little country in central Africa can't. They will be left behind because no one will build them a coal fired plant or a nuclear plant.

Have you read the Paris Accord? Did you know that the burden of reduction is not the same across the board? It's been addressed.

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Re: Mann Down!
Reply #76 - 07/11/17 at 10:38:49

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 07/11/17 at 10:04:42:

Looking at the problems that Solving the Problem will cause isn't a strawman. Explain Why you would claim that.

Strawman: an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.

Well, when web said "Cutting fossil fuel emissions means relegating them to poverty." - that's untrue - a strawman.

According to the Paris Agreement, the burden is less on underdeveloped countries.

It's like someone saying - "Oh, you want to get rid of fossil fuels? Then the government is gonna take your motorcycle away". Not a true statement.

See?

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Mann Down! Reply #77 - 07/11/17 at 10:45:55 This one looks different from the last one with respect to the smaller nations. This one does injure America and allow China and others to grow. It's been posted.
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T And T Garage Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 9839	Re: Mann Down! Reply #78 - 07/11/17 at 10:58:43 justin_o_guy2 wrote on 07/11/17 at 10:45:55: This one looks different from the last one with respect to the smaller nations. This one does injure America and allow China and others to grow. It's been posted. LOL - "injure America". I think not. Pull its own weight, yes.
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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Mann Down! Reply #79 - 07/11/17 at 11:01:41 Which trade deals did you oppose? If you are unable to see the weight of the restrictions is on us, while China and India and others get to go without restrictions, well, I can't say I'm surprised.
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Re: Mann Down!
Reply #80 - 07/11/17 at 11:08:04

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 07/11/17 at 11:01:41:

Which trade deals did you oppose?

Trade deals? What trade deals? Are there trade deals attached to the accord that I missed?

If you are unable to see the weight of the restrictions is on us, while China and India and others get to go without restrictions, well, I can't say I'm surprised.

I can see quite clearly - but it's a moot point now, isn't it. Our president, in his infinite wisdom, has pulled out of the agreement. I personally think it's a bad idea. His team thinks it will somehow strengthen the US. What they fail to see is the global economy we live in now... and if things keep going the way they are, the US will less of a world power.

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Re: Mann Down!
Reply #81 - 07/11/17 at 11:27:12

Ridiculous. No one will pass up a business opportunity in the US because Trump wisely refused to screw over his nation. You cant have your cake and eat it too. On one hand, you can't say evil business men will do anything for a buck and on the other hand, say they'll bypass profits to follow an unenforceable agreement.

Other nations and a few stupid governors will say they'll honor the agreement, they won't.

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Mann Down! Reply #82 - 07/11/17 at 11:32:57 China, India and Russia have Zero requirements. Our cutting our throats will impact nothing Except OUR standard of living. Am I the only one who read the post?
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Re: Mann Down!
Reply #83 - 07/11/17 at 11:47:31

WebsterMark wrote on 07/11/17 at 11:27:12:

Ridiculous. No one will pass up a business opportunity in the US because Trump wisely refused to screw over his nation.

LOL - the word "wisely" and our president should never be used in the same sentence. To think that it was his idea to pull out of the agreement is silly. Look at the speech he gave - obviously written by someone other than him.

You cant have your cake and eat it too. On one hand, you can't say evil business men will do anything for a buck and on the other hand, say they'll bypass profits to follow an unenforceable agreement.

Other nations and a few stupid governors will say they'll honor the agreement, they won't.

So says you... that's just your opinion. I've shared mine too.

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Re: Mann Down!
Reply #84 - 07/11/17 at 11:53:17

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 07/11/17 at 11:32:57:

China, India and Russia have Zero requirements.
Our cutting our throats will impact nothing Except OUR standard of living.
Am I the only one who read the post?

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/jun/05/donald-trump/d...

In the Paris Agreement, each country determines, plans and regularly reports its own contribution it should make in order to mitigate global warming.[5] There is no mechanism to force[6] a country to set a specific target by a specific date,[7] but each target should go beyond previously set targets.

In 2017, President Donald Trump withdrew the United States from the agreement, causing widespread condemnation in the European Union and many sectors in the United States.

In July 2017, France’s environment minister Nicolas Hulot announced France’s five-year plan to ban all petrol and diesel vehicles by 2040 as part of the Paris Agreement. Hulot also stated that France would no longer use coal to produce electricity after 2022 and that up to €4bn will be invested in boosting energy efficiency.[8]

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Mann Down! Reply #85 - 07/11/17 at 13:04:20 Looks like a buncha fluff over reality. When they eliminate coal, I'll look at what they replaced it with. Nukular is as dumb an idea as any I've seen.
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WebsterMark Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 12854 Gender:	Re: Mann Down! Reply #86 - 07/11/17 at 13:09:29 No president writes their own and remember Obama couldn't even do a press conference w/o a TelePrompTer so you can forget that useless crap and stay on topic.
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Re: Mann Down!
Reply #87 - 07/11/17 at 13:53:03

WebsterMark wrote on 07/11/17 at 13:09:29:

No president writes their own and remember Obama couldn't even do a press conference w/o a TelePrompTer so you can forget that useless crap and stay on topic.

No, not useless crap - very legitimate in this context. Our president has all the intelligence of a radish when compared to Obama.

Further, anytime that Obama was off prompter, he was deliberate and articulate. Our current president? Not so much.

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Re: Mann Down!
Reply #88 - 07/11/17 at 14:00:46

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 07/11/17 at 13:04:20:

Looks like a buncha fluff over reality.
When they eliminate coal, I'll look at what they replaced it with. Nukular is as dumb an idea as any I've seen.

Hmm, not sure what you mean by writing "nukular", but whatever..

Nuclear is far cleaner and more efficient than gas or coal. Yes, there are many drawbacks, but there is much room for improvement - molten salt reactors, better safeguards, etc.

Don't be so quick to dismiss the possibility of fusion either.

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Mann Down! Reply #89 - 07/11/17 at 17:18:05 I wish for fusion. The environmental Cost of building a nuke plant is very high. If the goal is lower carbon, gotta consider everything. I'm not gonna be supportive of nukes. Never did agree with that. The waste Stays Waste for too long and IF there's a problem, it can be a Really BIG problem. See Fukushima
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